Help with Transfer Switch Problem

[Lhinkle114]

We have a 2019 3791Rd and recently had a electricity surge that fried most of our DC items. Because of the we are operations the rig on a generator. During the trouble shooting process we kept having the bedroom breaker trip and got a error of E7 Missing Ground on our Hughes surge inline protector. So on a hunch we bypassed the AC input Utility connector going into the transfer switch and the breaker and error still occurred. Then we disconnects the Load out put connector and the short went away.

Now I don't know what caused the electric surge but I do know the inverter and maybe the transfer switch are fried. Is there anything else I should look for in the trouble shooting process besides the connectors under the bed. Also do you thing the inverter and transfer switch could have caused a large enough surge to fry most of our DC items? All the AC items work as far as we can tell.

Thanks Again
Larry

[AZ Traveler]

Larry,

Your inverter produces AC power, it doesn't make sense it would impact any of your DC systems. Your transfer switch only involves AC power also.

The DC power system depends on your batteries and is separate from your AC power. The batteries are recharged by the converter which converts AC power to DC power.

With all external power disconnected and the generator off is the battery powering your DC systems? What is your battery voltage if some things are not working? With the inverter turned on, is it working, it would typically have been installed to power a residential fridge?

[Lhinkle114]

The only thing that I can think of is possibly inside the transfer switch might’ve shorted out both in incoming it out coming wires, sending a surge electricity to the control box destroying the converter and other DC appliances on it. We have 8 battleborn batteries and the inverter is a 3000 W inverter if that helps.

[Foldbak]

What appliances are you referring to? The only 12 volt "appliance" would be a fan or radio.

[Lhinkle114]

Everything at 12 V is not working been including the slides outs, the hydraulics, electric heater, part of the puck lights and fans. Also, the TV lift inverter transfer switch converter was fried. KeyTV. The control panel display lights, cap lights on the front of the camper plus miscellaneous other items they will have to be replaced.

[Lee-CI]

Hey folks - is there a master fuse or resettable circuit breaker coming off the main positive battery feed on 2019 models???
Converter might be out if the power hit was bad enough, but should have batteries as long as they didn't get drained to zilch.

[Lhinkle114]

Yes you right there is a battery shut off in the front bay but is is fine. We did lose the converter and we loss 2 of the battleborns. As of now the insurance is evaluating what needs to be repaired. The is still a short somewhere after the transfer and inverter.

[Carl n Susan]

Originally Posted by Lee-CI

...Hey folks - is there a master fuse or resettable circuit breaker coming off the main positive battery feed on 2019 models???
....

Yes there are at least two self-resetting circuit breakers directly off the positive side of the battery(ies).
Here is a flowchart for checking the 12V system on a RV.

The 12V flow from the converter to the batteries (or from the batteries to the converter) is pretty straight forward. As others have pointed out, here are the places to look. All connections should have 13.5 +/- Volts if the converter is working.

• The converter is part of the power distribution panel -Ensure the CB for it is On
• There are Reverse Polarity Fuses on the converter which protect against connecting a battery backwards. - Ensure they are not blown.
• Check the output voltage at the converter. - it should be in the 13.5V DC range.
• The power then runs to the Disconnect Switch in the Convenience Center. - Ensure the Red Key is in the position where it can *NOT* be removed. If removed, this interrupts the power charging the battery. The Disconnect Switch is not know to fail, but you can remove it to check there is power in and out of it just to be sure.
• The power next flows to the group of 50 amp self-resetting CBs behind the battery. We all know about the one that hiccups and interrupts the hydraulic system. That one also passes power to/from the converter and batteries. You want to check it and it's brother (it is in the current flow to the battery) to ensure there is 13.5V on *EACH* side of the CB.
• The last connection is the one from the 50 amp CBs to the batteries. Ensure you have clean connections and the cables are not corroded (watch out for internal corrosion under the shrink wrap).

Somewhere along this path there will be the problem. A simple VOM should find it.

[Carl n Susan]

Lhinkle114 - I am so confused by your Posts #1, #3, #5, #7 and the Threads at https://www.montanaowners.com/forums...94#post1263994
and
https://www.montanaowners.com/forums...ad.php?t=88118.

It sure appears there are significant inconsistencies in the symptoms and inoperative devices. Things like the 120V system and the 12V system are independent, what kind of power surge occurred (120V or 12V)? why run a generator if the 120V system is fine?, the E7 (Open Ground) on the Hughes when running off the genny (do you have a Bonded Neutral plug?) , the E2 (high voltage) error on the Hughes which monitors incoming power not load power, a mention of a MPPT controller which implies there is a previously unmentioned solar system installed, and so on.

I read that you have the insurance company involved. Hopefully they are using a qualified RV electrician to thoroughly diagnose the problems and inop devices.

[Lee-CI]

Thanks for the assist / clarification Carl. I'm sorta a one shot pony when trying to diagnose the different year models sight unseen. I can tackle most anything if on site with VOM in hand, but my hat is off to several of you guys with your experience and knowledge of multiple year models, build models and systems.

Good luck Larry and let us know how you come out.

[Lhinkle114]

This has been a baptism by fire. We were on a Hill top in PA when we came home to a burning metallic smell and most of the DC not working. At the time all the AC items worked we thought, till later we discovered a fried transfer switch and or inverter. I contacted Progressive to test the converter and they replaced it under warranty. I then paid Lippert RV Bridge a fee to troubleshoot. They talked me through manually collapsing the electric slides and hydraulics along with manually hooking up to the truck. We found a Good RV tech near our daughter in MD but no campsites near her. So we packed up and headed to her and found a storage place where we could run on a generator. No we have the insurance company involved and a RV tech working on it. Most recent problem does not make sense. When we try to run the generator the bedroom circuit breaker pops and we get a E2 open ground on the Hughes inline converter but when we bypass the transfer switch to the inverter for frig the surge protecter goes off and the breaker stays on (I know this does not make sense since the surge protector is AC current and are using a generator). Yes we do have a bond plug on the generator. Anyway I think I have nailed it down to two problems first a bad converter that sent a electrical charge to all the DC items and somehow a defective transfer switch that fried the inverter and two batteries. I hope that helps if anyone else has any other ideas I could always use the help. When this happened I felt I was stranded and no matter how much money I had no one would come help me fix this. I have gained so much knowledge from this group I cant tank everyone enough.

My RV tech thinks the DC surge might be a defective MPPT Victron charger but I dont think so being I have a breaker between the panels and the MPPT and a breaker between the MPPT and the batteries and both breakers were in the off mode.


Thanks for all you help and ideas
Larry

[Lhinkle114]

Originally Posted by Carl n Susan

Yes there are at least two self-resetting circuit breakers directly off the positive side of the battery(ies).
Here is a flowchart for checking the 12V system on a RV.

The 12V flow from the converter to the batteries (or from the batteries to the converter) is pretty straight forward. As others have pointed out, here are the places to look. All connections should have 13.5 +/- Volts if the converter is working.

• The converter is part of the power distribution panel -Ensure the CB for it is On
• There are Reverse Polarity Fuses on the converter which protect against connecting a battery backwards. - Ensure they are not blown.
• Check the output voltage at the converter. - it should be in the 13.5V DC range.
• The power then runs to the Disconnect Switch in the Convenience Center. - Ensure the Red Key is in the position where it can *NOT* be removed. If removed, this interrupts the power charging the battery. The Disconnect Switch is not know to fail, but you can remove it to check there is power in and out of it just to be sure.
• The power next flows to the group of 50 amp self-resetting CBs behind the battery. We all know about the one that hiccups and interrupts the hydraulic system. That one also passes power to/from the converter and batteries. You want to check it and it's brother (it is in the current flow to the battery) to ensure there is 13.5V on *EACH* side of the CB.
• The last connection is the one from the 50 amp CBs to the batteries. Ensure you have clean connections and the cables are not corroded (watch out for internal corrosion under the shrink wrap).

Somewhere along this path there will be the problem. A simple VOM should find it.

Thanks that was a amazing helpful post I will save for later reference

[Foldbak]

Originally Posted by Lhinkle114

Everything at 12 V is not working been including the slides outs, the hydraulics, electric heater, part of the puck lights and fans. Also, the TV lift inverter transfer switch converter was fried. KeyTV. The control panel display lights, cap lights on the front of the camper plus miscellaneous other items they will have to be replaced.

Good god I've never heard of anything short of a lightning strike or an EMP that would take out every electrical component, AC and DC. It seems to me that all circuits would have to be closed or (ON) for this to occur Were you in the trailer?

[Lhinkle114]

At the time when it happened, we were not in the trailer. We were gone all day, long with family and friends, and came back to nightmare in progress.

[Lhinkle114]

As of right now we still don't know the what caused the surge that fried the DC items but being that Progressive could not find proof that a surge came from the outside they will not cover it and our extended warranty wont cover it either because we did not check for the surge option and if we had it would only be limited to $2500. Anyway we are looking for repair options that we have to cover out of our pocket of now.

[Foldbak]

Originally Posted by Lhinkle114

As of right now we still don't know the what caused the surge that fried the DC items but being that Progressive could not find proof that a surge came from the outside they will not cover it and our extended warranty wont cover it either because we did not check for the surge option and if we had it would only be limited to $2500. Anyway we are looking for repair options that we have to cover out of our pocket of now.

Sorry you're having to deal with this. This is so confusing to me. A surge could not be produced from inside the the trailer unless you were running a generator at the time of the surge. And if the gen did cause it, the onboard surge protector should have stopped it. If the surge happened while you were gone and the gen wasn't running there is no way your trailer could have caused the surge therefore it had to be the shore power. I'd fight this.

[Lhinkle114]

This is so confusing when this happened we were plugged into shore power and when we came back almost all of the DC items that were on in the circuit were fried and then there was a smell of burning metal. It seems none of the AC were affected and when I went to test the converter both legs red .02. So I knew the converter was out. None of this makes sense as of now I am reaching out to Keystone for help

Thanks for all the support
Larry

[Dan50]

Were you not using a surge protector or an EMS?

[Lhinkle114]

Yes we had a Hughes in-line protector and all of the AC seems to be working that’s why I think the surge came within the RV and from the converter and burned out t most DC items. But I still can’t understand why the transfer switch and the inverter are fried.

[Foldbak]

Originally Posted by Lhinkle114

Yes we had a Hughes in-line protector and all of the AC seems to be working that’s why I think the surge came within the RV and from the converter and burned out t most DC items. But I still can’t understand why the transfer switch and the inverter are fried.

I wonder if the inverter could have caused it? What would happen if AC voltage was introduced to the batteries? The AC feedback on the DC circuit would surely kill the DC items so it's possible the converter failed...