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Old 06-07-2020, 02:41 PM   #1
mtlakejim
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Hey keystone

I hear Keystone engineers/designers spend time in the campers?

Do they hitch them up themselves, tow them to the campsite and stay in them for at least a week? Then hitch them back up and visit the dump station?

There are a LOT of things you will miss if you don't have to do the towing and setup!!

One extremely simple thing to correct would be simply hinging the door that covers the control center on an HC 381TH to open the opposite direction. If it is hinged to open towards the entry door it is in the entry pathway at exactly the right height to cause a nasty head bump as you are stepping UP into the camper (and most folks are looking down to make sure of their footing)!!

The solution won't cost you any additional work or $$ other than a manager going down on the assembly floor and telling the workers "hey hinge those doors the other way, folks are hitting their heads"!!!

If you can't pick this low hanging fruit I am ashamed of you!!
 
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Old 06-07-2020, 03:57 PM   #2
DQDick
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It has been my understanding over the years that if they ever camped in one of their units it was already staged when they got there.
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Old 06-07-2020, 04:12 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by DQDick View Post
It has been my understanding over the years that if they ever camped in one of their units it was already staged when they got there.
Yep. I had heard that. That is why I mentioned it.

Good they are meeting with owners at the Rallies but they sure miss a LOT of good advice by not listening to actual owners. They could learn a LOT from Kubota who actually has their engineers rotate in the complaint department!!!

But what it all really boils down to is, we the end users are not the manufactures customers. The buyers for dealerships are. The actual owners therefore have virtually zero voice with the builders!!! I saw that on full display when I went to Goshen during the dealership show!
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Old 06-07-2020, 05:14 PM   #4
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Have you called Keystone or went to a rally or some other way contacted Keystone to express your concerns? They may make the changes if you explain that this would be better for them and their customers. After all they are in the business or making their customers happy.
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Old 06-07-2020, 05:50 PM   #5
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Hey keystone keystone keystone, I hear an echo.
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Old 06-07-2020, 07:30 PM   #6
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LOL yup Jim is Back!!!!
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Old 06-07-2020, 08:07 PM   #7
mtlakejim
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Originally Posted by mlh View Post
Have you called Keystone or went to a rally or some other way contacted Keystone to express your concerns? They may make the changes if you explain that this would be better for them and their customers. After all they are in the business or making their customers happy.
Lynwood
Sorry to disappoint you but WE are not keystones customers. The buyers for the dealers are!!!

Any time I have tried to call Keystone it was a total waste of time.


And as I have said not all of us can make a rally. You have maybe 100 owners at a rally at best. Care to guess what percentage of total owners that represents. If I was retired and could make a rally I would but I am not giving up a precious vacation to do it. There has to be another way!!
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Old 06-07-2020, 08:09 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Montana Man View Post
Hey keystone keystone keystone, I hear an echo.
Yep but if you were a buyer for a dealership they would listen!
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Old 06-07-2020, 08:39 PM   #9
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Maybe there are only 50 or 100 owners at a rally but if they sell a customer 1 camper to that customer that is 100% to that person. If I sell a thousand powder measures this year each customer buys one and if that customer isn’t happy to him that is the only one he will buy that is 100%. If you try you might find someone at Montana that feels the same way. From over 20 years experience in dealing with the public I can assure you you can’t built any product every body will be satisfied with. We make over a hundred different muzzle breaks because everybody wonts something different. A muzzle break is about as simple as a product gets.
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Old 06-07-2020, 09:09 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by mlh View Post
Maybe there are only 50 or 100 owners at a rally but if they sell a customer 1 camper to that customer that is 100% to that person. If I sell a thousand powder measures this year each customer buys one and if that customer isnít happy to him that is the only one he will buy that is 100%. If you try you might find someone at Montana that feels the same way. From over 20 years experience in dealing with the public I can assure you you canít built any product every body will be satisfied with. We make over a hundred different muzzle breaks because everybody wonts something different. A muzzle break is about as simple as a product gets.
Lynwood
Respectfully,
I have tried. Nobody at Keystone has the time to talk to an owner! At least no one that actually has the power to address design flaws! The only people you can talk to are their complaint department who more or less give you the usual canned corporate answers then throw anything you may have said in a dark black hole.

Trust me the only folks they care about taking care of are the dealership buyers!!
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Old 06-08-2020, 06:16 AM   #11
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My experience with Keystone has been very good. I recently called them and had a popup receptacle replaced under warranty, they shipped it to me. Also, I am currently working with another member to figure out what is going on with our Dometic A/C units. We both seem to have the same issue (https://www.montanaowners.com/forums...ad.php?t=81164). As it turns out, a project manager from Keystone was monitoring the forum and contacted me. I thought that was great initiative on their part. ymmv.
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Old 06-08-2020, 08:29 AM   #12
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I do not know how many Keystone employees own or camp in a RV .Those at the rallies are actual owners of Montana or Keystone products. Folks from Keystone do read this forum. Keystone reps are present at the Fall rally in Goshen. When you take the factory tour you are given a survey sheet at the end were you can rate the tour and give suggestions.
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Old 06-14-2020, 02:44 PM   #13
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Kitchen Gray water valve

For the benefit of future Montana owners. The kitchen gray water valve on my 2019 3121 RL requires me to kneel in the gunk at a dump station to operate the valve. The location and operation of this valve could be engineered to be easier to operate or moved to an accessible location. Just saying....
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Old 06-14-2020, 04:16 PM   #14
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Ratio - Did you get the kitchen ceiling light fixture with the ugly oval white fabric shade on it like we did? It was about the same time we got our 2019 3120.
Iím not sure how to fix that thing so it goes with the rest of the RV.
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Old 06-14-2020, 04:33 PM   #15
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Hey Keystone

Yes Cherie. We just ignore it....
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Old 06-14-2020, 05:44 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratco View Post
For the benefit of future Montana owners. The kitchen gray water valve on my 2019 3121 RL requires me to kneel in the gunk at a dump station to operate the valve. The location and operation of this valve could be engineered to be easier to operate or moved to an accessible location. Just saying....
Sounds like a good place to install an electric valve.
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Old 06-14-2020, 05:59 PM   #17
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LOL Good Advice
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Old 06-14-2020, 06:17 PM   #18
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I don't believe for one second that any KS engineer ever spends time in their creation. I hesitate to call them engineers.
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Old 06-15-2020, 11:38 AM   #19
Rod Spohn
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I agree

I agree that they need to do something about that door, I probably have scares to prove it. An idea Iím thinking of doing (after seeing on another post) is to put the door on drawer slides so it rolled to the side instead of swinging out.
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Old 06-16-2020, 07:34 AM   #20
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My current 2016 Montana 3160rl legacy was a factory order. This is my second Montana fifthwheel. During pdi, since most issues were cosmetic, dealer told me to bring it back at end of season Incase any other issues were found. Brought back at end of season to fix the initial problems and a few others. Dealer called me a week later to inform me that keystone refused to cover the issues and asked me to call them directly. The end result was keystone refused to repair the issues so when the time comes to replace my fifthwheel as much as I like the Montanaís, I will not be purchasing another keystone product!
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