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Old 11-10-2009, 01:21 PM   #1
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Artic Package

We purchased a 2010 3665 Montanna 5th wheel, we have used the unit in about 30 degree temps. The unit does not seem to keep warm, even with the fireplace unit on, except after about 2 days. The propane usage seems to be alot as in about 40 lbs in 3 days. We do feel cold spots around the slides, May need adjusted!!.Does this seem normal to use that much propane and has any one else expierenced this same situation. A little info. would be helpfull.

Thanks Ken
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:55 PM   #2
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Hey Shaggy, welcome aboard!
I wish I could answer your question from experience but what I hear as talk on the forum here is that they have a tendency to be on the cold side. Iím certain someone will come along soon and give you a lot better information than I have.
2011 GMC 4X4 dually CC, 6.6 Duramax with Allison Transmission. Formally 2001 Montana,2007 3400RL Montana, presently 2018 3401RS Alpine.
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Old 11-10-2009, 02:08 PM   #3
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We use a Blue Flame 20,000 BTU propane space heater and only run the furnace at night in freezing weather.

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Old 11-10-2009, 02:58 PM   #4
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Your experiences sound pretty normal to me. Yes, you will feel coolness around the slides.

Yes, in the temps you are talking about, continuously around 30, you are gonna burn thru a bunch of propane, the numbers you quote sound pretty right on to me.

The Artic package helps keep you warm, and your 2010 is gonna be BUNCHES more warm than our early 2004.

These units are NOT stick builts, they are harder to keep heated and cooled.

We are sitting in ours right now, temps headed to 34isth tonight, electric heater running like crazy, and still chilly in here. Tomorrow we run for warmer climes (bring on 85 degrees, I can handle it!)

Enjoy that new unit. Welcome to the MOC and keep reading, find the archives, some great threads about cold weather camping. We have people that lived in their units FULL time in Alaska and Montana in some conditions that I cannot imagine nor would I try. It is do-able, snicker, BY THEM!!
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Old 11-10-2009, 03:32 PM   #5
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We have the 09 3400RL with the Arctic Pkg and spent one night at 28 degrees, furance ran continuous all night and held it around 62 degrees. Noticed air spaces around the bottom corners of the kitchen slide, does not seal completely. A lot of heat is lost to the belly and basement. They are not a unit for those type of temps, heat loss is very high. Will consume a lot of propane in a cool night.
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Old 11-10-2009, 05:36 PM   #6
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It's doable. We did it in Alaska for 2 winters. If you'd like more information, please PM us.
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:26 PM   #7
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Last winter we had temperatures down to around 5 degrees. Not super cold, but you did not wear your swim suit. What we did was use an electric heater during the day when we were the with the thermostat set at 65 degrees. When we went to bed, we set the thermostat to 58 degrees, closed off the bedroom and used the electric heater there. Doing this we use, at the worst, 7 gallons of propane in two days. If we felt it was too cool, we did turn up the heat until we felt comfortable. The slides were a tad cooler, but not much.
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Old 11-11-2009, 01:03 AM   #8
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Surprise..... you are experiencing real life in a RV. Like many you fell for the "Arctic package" PR. The Arctic package will keep you comfortable in Arctic, Alabama.
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Old 11-11-2009, 05:25 AM   #9
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At present we are in Northwest Washington. The temps have been down in the low 30's (and a bit lower) at night and in the 40's to low 50's during the day. We run the fireplace when we are home and set the thermostat at 60 when we are gone and during the night. We average a bottle of propane a week. That is the same as we used in New Mexico when the temps were getting in the teens at night.

Our remedy to the cold weather and high propane use is to head south. We are heading out tomorrow before the snow comes. This is one of the niceties of being a full-timer, if you don't like the weather you can move.
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Old 11-11-2009, 07:43 AM   #10
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quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Surprise..... you are experiencing real life in a RV. Like many you fell for the "Arctic package" PR. The Arctic package will keep you comfortable in Arctic, Alabama.

"Arctic Package" sounds good, but it more hype than insulation.
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Old 11-11-2009, 12:38 PM   #11
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We just came back from Canada and on the east side of the Rockys it never got above 24. When we moved every day we just shut off the heat and then when we set up we turned on to 65. At night we would turn it down to 62 and then up to 68 when we got up in the am. We would use about 1 bottle every three days.

When we would heat up after a day of traveling it would take maybe an hour and a half to get up to 65.

I'd say the artic package works very well. Oh yeah and the night time temps would go down to around 10.
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Old 11-12-2009, 01:14 AM   #12
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Ken, we run two heaters in temps of what you talk of and below. One in the main kitchen/living area and one in the bedroom. We close off the bedroom area at night and adjust the heater to the point that we are toasty warm. The main area however is a different story. Our kitchen slide and our desk/entertainment slide radiate alot of cold so in those areas even with the heater and furnace on one still needs to wear warmer clothes. Slippers and sweaters are the norm once we leave the bedroom area.
Darwin & Maureen DeBackere
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Old 11-12-2009, 08:08 AM   #13
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This winter we are staying in Colorado. we have not used any extra heater just the forced air and fire place. My worry is the water lines, what do I keep the heater set at when using the extra heater to insure the belly is warm? the lines outside are heatwraped.

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Old 11-12-2009, 08:16 AM   #14
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quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Surprise..... you are experiencing real life in a RV. Like many you fell for the "Arctic package" PR. The Arctic package will keep you comfortable in Arctic, Alabama.
May be, but it kept us cool in Hell................Michigan!
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:24 AM   #15
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hey ken, welcome to the moc......we winter camp as we grow flowers during the warmer months and really can't get away.......when we DO camp, we too tend to go south but do also go north and west (of our north carolina home).....we set our thermostat on about 70 days when we are IN the camper and at about 60 at nights......we do use a little oscillating space heater in our living space and in the bath area when showering, but at night just put on the flannels and snuggle in under lots of covers AND misc. critters.....several years ago i figured out that we were cold under the mattress and so i put a single layer of what i call tek-foil underneath the mattress above the plywood and we are never cold backed any more.....tek-foil has many names and can be found at just about any hardware/box store like lowe's or home has two layers of the mini-bubblewrap stuff sandwiched between two layers of metalic foil.....nothing fancy but did the trick for me. be well and enjoy.
p.s. don't forget the obvious of getting some foam cushion blocks for those fan opennings at night and when you're not using them.
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:46 AM   #16
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Our 3665 stays pretty darned warm in cold weather. We have camped in night temps as low as 16 degrees. Our propane usage is about the same as what you are burning. We run the fireplace continuously though.
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Old 01-12-2010, 12:30 PM   #17
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Here are a few tricks that worked for me in sub zero temps in Idaho..
1) Insert a piesce of 1 1/2 inch styrofoam insulation in all ceiling vents. I installed handles (Cable ties) on the bathroom vent (since we open that from time to time )
2) I used thin silver (Bubble wrap type) Insulation in the windows. This helps insulate as the weep holes and windows themselves are cold. Keep the weep holes open though as condensation will build up. This made a huge difference in the large rear window of the 3400RL.
3) I used plastic heat shrink window film over the airconditioner vent itself in the ceiling and cut a peice of the thin silver bubble wrap insulation to put in all the round a/c ceiling vents. You would be surprised when the wind is blowing to watch the plastic over the a/c "shimmy". It certainly would lose heat if not wrapped.
4) I use a Eden Pure electric heater in the bedroom and blocked the furnace floor vent. I only run the electric heater when we are home and at night. I then shut the bedroom door off from the rest of the RV (sometimes partially) this allows us to stay toasty when we sleep. But does not interfere with the thermostat and lets the main furnace cycle normally allowing for heating of the "underbelly"
5) I use heat tape on the inlet hose of the RV and wrap around the campground piping at the spicket. (No problems)

This has worked well for us in sub zero temps here in Idaho. The only thing that I could do to make it better would be to skirt the outside of the RV. Other than that we do not go through a lot of propane. About 1 tank per week. Hope this helps.

Stay warm.
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Old 01-13-2010, 01:12 AM   #18
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I have to laugh at keystones arctic package in my 06 3650 the put a dedicated heat register at the rear of the tanks in underbelly which consisted of bubble foil between the tanks and bottom board. The water lines to the kitchen were ran right beside the frame rail on the street side not by the heat run. and the slide floor in the living room and kitchen dinette are made of bonded paneling and Styrofoam with a lawyer of bubble foil under the carpet. If I had not known about the way these rigs or any rig with an arctic package for that matter WE WOULD HAVE FROZE UP FOR THE WINTER HERE IN IOWA! What I did to remedy this was to start in the under belly with heat pads on all tanks and I added R30 from front to rear with the bubble foil between the R30 and the bottom board.I also added bubble foil to the frame rails inside the belly all the way around the tanks. As for the water lines to the kitchen I had to make new water lines wrap them with heat tape and insulation. I had to cut out the 1 1/2 drain line that was connected from the kitchen tank to the main drain. I added a vent in to the storage area and relocated the dedicated heat line to the underbelly to the other side where the fresh water draw line is located. The slides are next on the list I will be building all new floors for those 2 floors this spring. We have made it through the winter so far on 1 1/2 100lb bottles of propane all winter and we keep the heat at about 73 are average temp outside has been single digit and below single digit at night. We also used the shrink type window plastic on all the windows and put the vent pillows in the 4 vents and closed off the air's.
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:16 AM   #19
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I had my bedroom roof vent out this past summer and found that a whole section of insulation was never installed at the factory. I wonder how much more is missing or has shifted or was not installed properly. I would think with the new spray foam systems that are out now at least the roof and floor would utilize foam.
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:51 AM   #20
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IAMontana.... Now there is a Artic packagea as it should be. I make fun of the OEM artic package knowing that it is a marketing ploy and never intended to use this 3400 in cold temps anyway. Most every camper in this C.G is using propane at about the same rate no matter what the price range or brand of RV. The high dollar MH next door is using propane at the same rate we are and had to pull up and get a refill yesterday. The first time he said he had ever had to do that during the winter in Florida...It has been cold.
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