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03-27-2008, 04:52 AM
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#1
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Established Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hardy
Posts: 21
M.O.C. #3135
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2500HD curb weights and towing
I am getting ready to replace my 2003 2500HD 8.1 V8 Allison Extended Cab SB with a 2008 2500HD Duramax Crewcab SB. I am towing a 2006 3400RL Monty.
The curb weight for the 2008 4X4 CC is 5983 and 5847 for the extended cab with the same package. Difference of 136 lbs. The max trailer weights for the same setups are 13,600 and 14,300. Difference of 700 lbs. Same type of differences in the 2wd and 4x4 crew cab weights.
Can anyone tell me what causes the bigger difference in max trailer weights?
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03-27-2008, 05:13 AM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Eureka
Posts: 1,490
M.O.C. #2
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I'm not totally sure this is the correct answer, but I believe it's because the DuraMax is a stronger engine. I think there is also something about torque as well.
Patty
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03-27-2008, 05:30 AM
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#3
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Established Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hardy
Posts: 21
M.O.C. #3135
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Thanks Patty, but both of the 2008 packages (extended and crew cab)have the same Duramax engine. I was looking at the differences in the 2008 curb weights and the max trailering weights for both setups.
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03-27-2008, 05:52 AM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Eureka
Posts: 1,490
M.O.C. #2
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Sorry Harry & Pam, got confused because our DuraMax is 6.6L Turbo Diesel V8, thought the 8.1L V8 was always a gasser and that you had the optional Allison Trans. I'll just tuck my tail between my legs now & head to the Gals gone MOC area.
Didn't read the first post well enough either, so for sure back to Gals gone MOC for me.
Patty
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03-27-2008, 07:03 AM
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#5
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Established Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hardy
Posts: 21
M.O.C. #3135
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Patty,
Not a problem. Post is probably not as clear as it could be. I like the 8.1 gassser that I have now, but it is not being offered on the 2008 2500HD models. I will enjoy the better mileage with the Duramax.
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03-27-2008, 08:10 AM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: silver creek
Posts: 1,507
M.O.C. #7770
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did they add more torque to the 2008 or change the rear gearing. Thats how ford bumps up theie towing capacities by changing the rear gear ratio
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03-27-2008, 08:38 AM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Casa Grande
Posts: 5,369
M.O.C. #6333
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Legend, It might have something to do with the center of gravity between the two. Seems maybe in the CC there is more weight aft of center thereby lowering capacity. Maybe has something to do with axle weights. Just a thought on my part, not an expert nor an engineer, just an old retired pilot.....Would certainly be interested in finding out the answer though....
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03-27-2008, 08:40 AM
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#8
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Established Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hardy
Posts: 21
M.O.C. #3135
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I guess my question is if on the 2008 models if you go from a 2500HD ext cab 4x4 with the Duramax to a 2500HD Crew cab 4x4 with the Duramax the weight changes +136 lbs, but the towing capacity lowers by 700 lbs. What else would affect lowering the towing capacity other than a increase in curb weight?
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03-27-2008, 09:49 AM
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#9
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: St Johns
Posts: 434
M.O.C. #7691
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Weight distribution between the rear and front axle would impact max. tongue/pin weight and therefore tow weight since they are related. Since the CC has it's fuel tank and more of it's cab further aft of the front axle this may account for the change. I tried to figure out the differences from the GM site but found it nearly impossible to comb out the information. The longer frame on the CC may also account for some of 700#'s. It would seem to me that a longer frame would bend easier than a shorter one but that is an engineering thought that is beyond this poor brain to calculate.
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03-27-2008, 10:01 AM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lone Tree
Posts: 5,615
M.O.C. #6109
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I think the truck chassis probably pulls the same, but the crew cab is considered a 6 passenger vehicle versus 3 or so for the extended cab. The extra passenger weight is being deducted from the tow capacity on the crew cab maybe?
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03-27-2008, 12:06 PM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Texas City
Posts: 5,736
M.O.C. #7673
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I think Roger hit it. The CC is a longer frame and cannot support the same weight as a shorter frame. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Edited: Sort of has to do with physics. A longer span of the same material would not support the same weight as a shorter span. I don't think that they have different support structures. The frames are the same.
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03-27-2008, 12:46 PM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Englewood
Posts: 3,095
M.O.C. #164
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Compare the the rear end ratio's 373,410 etc this will change towing cap
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03-27-2008, 02:38 PM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kville
Posts: 2,865
M.O.C. #7871
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Legend
I am getting ready to replace my 2003 2500HD 8.1 V8 Allison Extended Cab SB with a 2008 2500HD Duramax Crewcab SB. I am towing a 2006 3400RL Monty.
The curb weight for the 2008 4X4 CC is 5983 and 5847 for the extended cab with the same package. Difference of 136 lbs. The max trailer weights for the same setups are 13,600 and 14,300. Difference of 700 lbs. Same type of differences in the 2wd and 4x4 crew cab weights.
Can anyone tell me what causes the bigger difference in max trailer weights?
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I can't answer your question, but I can tell you that your curb weights are incorrect. If I had to guess, I'd say they are for a trucks with gas engines. Using the CC as an example, 9200 (GVWR) minus 5983 (your curb weight) equals 3217. There are NO 3/4 ton D/A 4 x 4s with that much cargo capacity. It is about 1000# too high. Look at the Tire and Loading Information sticker on the left rear door pillar, it will give you the cargo capacity for that truck to the nearest one pound. Subtract that number from 9200 and that will be your true empty weight.
This is more confusing information from GM.
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03-27-2008, 03:09 PM
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#14
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,376
M.O.C. #6575
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by TLightning
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Legend
I am getting ready to replace my 2003 2500HD 8.1 V8 Allison Extended Cab SB with a 2008 2500HD Duramax Crewcab SB. I am towing a 2006 3400RL Monty.
The curb weight for the 2008 4X4 CC is 5983 and 5847 for the extended cab with the same package. Difference of 136 lbs. The max trailer weights for the same setups are 13,600 and 14,300. Difference of 700 lbs. Same type of differences in the 2wd and 4x4 crew cab weights.
Can anyone tell me what causes the bigger difference in max trailer weights?
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I can't answer your question, but I can tell you that your curb weights are incorrect. If I had to guess, I'd say they are for a trucks with gas engines. Using the CC as an example, 9200 (GVWR) minus 5983 (your curb weight) equals 3217. There are NO 3/4 ton D/A 4 x 4s with that much cargo capacity. It is about 1000# too high. Look at the Tire and Loading Information sticker on the left rear door pillar, it will give you the cargo capacity for that truck to the nearest one pound. Subtract that number from 9200 and that will be your true empty weight.
This is more confusing information from GM.
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So you disagree with GM's figures? Here is a chart from their website. Looks like the figures quoted were on the money. I think Brad probably had the right answer for the question. More capacity for occupants.
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03-27-2008, 03:10 PM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 2,156
M.O.C. #6920
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I believe my curb weight on our 2007.5 New Body Style (same as the 08) is around 68 or 6900 lbs. I'm not sure if that is figuring a full tank of diesel into the equation. Our 2500HD is a crew cab, Z71 4x4, which adds on a Z71, a skid plate that is not on the 4x4.
Hope that may clear some of the wt. issue?? I also believe the 2500's are 3.73. Dennis
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03-27-2008, 05:21 PM
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#16
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Down the Road
Posts: 5,627
M.O.C. #889
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My 2500HD crewcab, 4x4, duramax, with me in it weighs in at 7,418 lbs. That includes a full tank of fuel, my superglide, and the fifth wheel tailgate.
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03-28-2008, 02:51 AM
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#17
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Established Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hardy
Posts: 21
M.O.C. #3135
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Thanks for all the good info on this. I see a lot of folks are towing their 3400RL with the same 2500HD CC Duramax setup that I am looking at and I have had no problems towing with my 2003 ext. cab. My 3400 weighs out about 13,900 loaded out and ready to go.
Just to add to the confusion GM lists the GCWR as 22,000 no matter which cab configuration for either the 4x4 or 2WD.
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03-29-2008, 04:47 AM
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#18
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kville
Posts: 2,865
M.O.C. #7871
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by SlickWillie
So you disagree with GM's figures? Here is a chart from their website. Looks like the figures quoted were on the money. I think Brad probably had the right answer for the question. More capacity for occupants.
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Yes, their figures are very very deceiving. Look at the weights of earlier posters who have actually weighed their trucks...none are any where near GM's numbers for empty weight. As I have said before, other than actually weighing the truck, the ONLY way to obtain the true empty weight of your truck is to subtract the cargo capacity listed on the Tire and Loading Information sticker from the GVWR.
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03-29-2008, 05:08 AM
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#19
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,376
M.O.C. #6575
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by TLightning
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by SlickWillie
So you disagree with GM's figures? Here is a chart from their website. Looks like the figures quoted were on the money. I think Brad probably had the right answer for the question. More capacity for occupants.
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Yes, their figures are very very deceiving. Look at the weights of earlier posters who have actually weighed their trucks...none are any where near GM's numbers for empty weight. As I have said before, other than actually weighing the truck, the ONLY way to obtain the true empty weight of your truck is to subtract the cargo capacity listed on the Tire and Loading Information sticker from the GVWR.
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Hmmm...Let's see, just who puts that info on the sticker on the door post? GM, I would think. And I doubt if the chart is accurate to the nearest pound. Options will increase the weight. Surely we don't think they are going to weigh every truck as it rolls off the assembly line. Add the weight of diesel, passengers, and other cargo and sure you will get up around 7000 pounds on a Duramax CC 4 X 4. I'm not sure the spare tire or rear bumper are even included in the weights. I just don't see how their (GM's) numbers are that far off.
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03-29-2008, 05:31 AM
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#20
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kville
Posts: 2,865
M.O.C. #7871
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by SlickWillie
Hmmm...Let's see, just who puts that info on the sticker on the door post? GM, I would think. And I doubt if the chart is accurate to the nearest pound. Options will increase the weight. Surely we don't think they are going to weigh every truck as it rolls off the assembly line. Add the weight of diesel, passengers, and other cargo and sure you will get up around 7000 pounds on a Duramax CC 4 X 4. I'm not sure the spare tire or rear bumper are even included in the weights. I just don't see how their (GM's) numbers are that far off.
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Don't know if GM weighs each truck, but the Tire and Loading Information sticker lists the cargo capacity to the nearest one pound.
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