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03-31-2021, 04:56 PM
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#41
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Minden - NV
Posts: 507
M.O.C. #22360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twinstax
I’m no engineer, but common sense says extra stress is virtually non-existent. If you look at the "funnel", when the ball is seated in the funnel it is on same level as the kingpin if it were locked into a regular fifth wheel hitch
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I'm a structural engineer, and there's a lot more to it. The funnel is generally installed in the forward position to work better for short bed turning/cab clearances. This extension adds stress to the frame. Now consider dynamic loads during traveling (i.e. braking, accelerating, hitting bumps in road, etc.). I don't think I've read of the frame failing as much as the sidewalls breaking at the front slideouts. That's not directly a frame problem, but more of a detailing issue between the two interacting with one another (think stiffness of sidewall compared to the more flexible frame). I've stated it multiple times that Keystone/Lippert could easily spec deeper tube sections in the overhang that run inside the walls. They already stick up in the bedroom now, what's another couple inches to curb excessive deflection/flex? Whatever they are doing in the aluminum walls clearly isn't working. I'm referring to the new higher slide base height they introduced in the 2020 models in the front bedroom slide with the bed in it.
__________________
2013 F350 Lariat Ultimate CC LB
2019 3790RD
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03-31-2021, 05:03 PM
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#42
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Established Member
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: La Grange
Posts: 27
M.O.C. #24531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 432bartman
Guys/Gals, I just put out a new thread with Andersen's warranty for when Lippert/Keystone denies a warranty with the use of their product. I think we will be fine. They are also amending the document to include the proper steps to take for their customers
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We have been on limbo for some time now and I don't see any conclusive change. Whether you like Andersen's system is subjective and personal. For my part I love the Ultimate hitch system for my 2019 3790RD. I had a small issue and they sent me the new part no questions ask.
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03-31-2021, 05:17 PM
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#43
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Edinburg
Posts: 89
M.O.C. #26856
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Seems to me the Keystone is just trying to pass the buck since they have been making 5th wheel trailers for over 20 years that routinely have cracked frames and sidewall damage no matter what you tow it with. If it's such a great concern the don't buy a keystone product to start with. I see the exact same issue occurring frequently in 2020 and 2021 trailers that happened in my 2003. You would think they would put more energy into fixing there own issues.
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03-31-2021, 05:20 PM
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#44
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Lodi
Posts: 221
M.O.C. #28242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetskier
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I don't think I've read of the frame failing as much as the sidewalls breaking at the front slideouts.
Whatever they are doing in the aluminum walls clearly isn't working. I'm referring to the new higher slide base height they introduced in the 2020 models in the front bedroom slide with the bed in it.
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Do you have any links to folks having these issues? I would like to read up on some of the comments, images, etc, as many here probably do also.
I used my Anderson in my 16 Ram long bed ( 2988 Rockwood ultralight)and run it in front of the pin, but when I moved Dad's 05 Montana 29xx I ran it behind the pin for clearance and it didn't look right sticking out that far in front of the pinbox's flat plate.
Doing research on conventional replacements and watching Etrailer video's of trailers being towed, I see a ton of movement both in the pivot and even pinbox sideplates of the trailer being stressed. Glad I don't see that while focused on stopping, lol. Not sure how one could say those flexing / movements don't create sidewalls buckling, frames stressed on every form of hitch.
But, flying in our company's F27F back in the early 80's another Tech showed me the flexing of the wing tips, and after seeing my concerned face, said if they don't flex, they will break.
Allen
__________________
Old rig: 2005 Ram QC 1500 5.7- Rockwood 8288 4- 6v batteries
New rig: 2016 Ram 25004x4 QC LB & 3120rl legacy-solarflex 300w and 400Ah Battleborn
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03-31-2021, 06:01 PM
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#45
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Minden - NV
Posts: 507
M.O.C. #22360
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https://www.montanaowners.com/forums...4&postcount=35
search user: golfmedik he had a lot of issues with the front slide tearing and posted over the years. The link shows a pic of the higher front slide. He's not really active on this forum anymore, but he does post on the FB group according to the wife.
__________________
2013 F350 Lariat Ultimate CC LB
2019 3790RD
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03-31-2021, 07:39 PM
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#46
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Akron, OH 44305
Posts: 51
M.O.C. #27487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 432bartman
I think if I go with anything other than the Anderson I am using, it will be the Reese Goosebox.
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But does the goose box allow for ample turning in shortbed trucks? I have a pullrite now that I have a love/hate relationship with. It works great and is too heavy to remove often.
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03-31-2021, 08:19 PM
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#47
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Minden - NV
Posts: 507
M.O.C. #22360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LERD
But does the goose box allow for ample turning in shortbed trucks? I have a pullrite now that I have a love/hate relationship with. It works great and is too heavy to remove often.
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I can't say how it performs with a short bed as far as angles and cab contact, but the ball coupler location is 2-1/8" forward of center of the fifth wheel king pin with a stock pinbox. That may afford a few more degrees in a tight turn.
__________________
2013 F350 Lariat Ultimate CC LB
2019 3790RD
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03-31-2021, 08:36 PM
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#48
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Lamesa
Posts: 629
M.O.C. #26010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemiallen
Do you have any links to folks having these issues? I would like to read up on some of the comments, images, etc, as many here probably do also.
I used my Anderson in my 16 Ram long bed ( 2988 Rockwood ultralight)and run it in front of the pin, but when I moved Dad's 05 Montana 29xx I ran it behind the pin for clearance and it didn't look right sticking out that far in front of the pinbox's flat plate.
Doing research on conventional replacements and watching Etrailer video's of trailers being towed, I see a ton of movement both in the pivot and even pinbox sideplates of the trailer being stressed. Glad I don't see that while focused on stopping, lol. Not sure how one could say those flexing / movements don't create sidewalls buckling, frames stressed on every form of hitch.
But, flying in our company's F27F back in the early 80's another Tech showed me the flexing of the wing tips, and after seeing my concerned face, said if they don't flex, they will break.
Allen
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I am assuming we are talking about the Andersen. Do you have any links to those vids showing the induced flex by the hitch, I've not seen/found them?
__________________
Danny and Susan wife of 55 years
2019 Ram Laramie 3500 6.4 4x4 CC 4.10 SRW
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
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03-31-2021, 09:04 PM
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#49
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Established Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Georgetown
Posts: 43
M.O.C. #22849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 432bartman
Well that sucks. Anybody on this forum have any kind of frame or sidewall damage who has been using an Anderson?
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Yes, my 2019 3700LK Monty has a broken strut/stud in front of the bed slide-out. I believe the damage occurred in 2019 on a trip to Alaska. It is currently in the shop for repair, under warranty. I first took it in for analysis in October 2019, and they said it was only a piece of trim missing. I took it in again in December 2020 because the trim piece was gone again. The service manager said "Oh, no, that is not just a trim issue. I believe you have a broken strut/stud." The entire front cap has to come off, as well as the exterior side in front of the bedroom slide, and a new strut/stud has to be welded in. I do not believe this was a result of Anderson vs. plate hitch. My Anderson hitch has served me well for the past two years!
__________________
Ed and Dianne (and Clancy, the red Poodle)
2019 Montana 20th Anniversary Edition 3700LK
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03-31-2021, 09:19 PM
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#50
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Montana Master
Join Date: May 2020
Location: UPLAND
Posts: 1,283
M.O.C. #26190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfb
Brand new trailer and truck. They guaranteed it would not happen where truck and trailer hit.. is it their fault? Yep..
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There are to many variables in setting up a hitch, kingpin height, hitch ball height. I think I would have tested the limits of my turning radius so I would know for sure how tight a turn I can make before truck and trailer make contact. I can't see how Andersen could guarantee that. I hope your insurance took care of the repair bill........or it would be a very long wait.
__________________
2019 Keystone Montana 3560RL, 2020 Chevy 2500 HD, Firestone airbags, Air Lift wireless compressor, Curt gooseneck, 20K Reese Goosebox, TST-507, USMC combat vet & retired LEO. Robert, Anika, Breanna, Dylan (daughter-in-law Stephanie). & our Great Pyrenees Layla
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03-31-2021, 09:28 PM
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#51
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Lodi
Posts: 221
M.O.C. #28242
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__________________
Old rig: 2005 Ram QC 1500 5.7- Rockwood 8288 4- 6v batteries
New rig: 2016 Ram 25004x4 QC LB & 3120rl legacy-solarflex 300w and 400Ah Battleborn
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03-31-2021, 09:40 PM
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#52
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Lodi
Posts: 221
M.O.C. #28242
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Watch this guys comments at 1:25 , his reviews of the reese vs standard kingpin box movements
https://youtu.be/5c5O4DQm2-Q
I can't find it, but the guy I posted above shows the reese A20 or 25 articulating during towing. It moves way more than I expected. I'll keep looking
Allen
__________________
Old rig: 2005 Ram QC 1500 5.7- Rockwood 8288 4- 6v batteries
New rig: 2016 Ram 25004x4 QC LB & 3120rl legacy-solarflex 300w and 400Ah Battleborn
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03-31-2021, 09:50 PM
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#53
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Lodi
Posts: 221
M.O.C. #28242
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The first minute of this video shows movement of the rotaflex in action
https://youtu.be/BD8YTmyDV6o
__________________
Old rig: 2005 Ram QC 1500 5.7- Rockwood 8288 4- 6v batteries
New rig: 2016 Ram 25004x4 QC LB & 3120rl legacy-solarflex 300w and 400Ah Battleborn
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03-31-2021, 11:25 PM
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#54
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Lodi
Posts: 221
M.O.C. #28242
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Nice video with Mark Kroll ( sp)
Scroll to ~ 5:30 and listen to the former production manager mention, rough interpretation.... "our engineer's design and tell Lippert what to build, they don't engineer it we do, so if we didn't put in enough outriggers, it's our fault"
https://youtu.be/cV0OZv0bCgc
Also at 22:30 , for a minute or so, discussion about the front slide -corner cracking is discussed, in regard to workers not installing the coach to the pinbox right.
At 24:30 he mentions using a magnet to locate steel strength plates in the event you want to attach something and take advantage of the extra bracing.
Interesting statement, with respect to the recent document about frame damage, imho
Allen
__________________
Old rig: 2005 Ram QC 1500 5.7- Rockwood 8288 4- 6v batteries
New rig: 2016 Ram 25004x4 QC LB & 3120rl legacy-solarflex 300w and 400Ah Battleborn
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04-02-2021, 08:36 AM
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#55
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Monroe
Posts: 183
M.O.C. #15746
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Anderson Hitch Letter
Montana Owners:
I continue to read owners making aggressive comments about Keystone due to the Anderson hitch letter.
The stance and situation on the Anderson hitch is no different for any manufacturer using a Lippert frame. So the situation is the same for Jayco, Forest River, Grand Design, Alliance..........
The difference is that prior to the letter, there may have been communication from Keystone employees that the Anderson hitch was approved. The letter was to "officially" notify all Keystone dealers that the Anderson hitch is not approved by Lippert.
And because statements that may have been made by Keystone employees, in the letter Keystone states "Fifth wheels affected by the use of the Anderson Ultimate 5th Wheel connection goose neck adapters installed prior to March 15, 2021, follow the normal process to receive warranty consideration". They will not be excluded from warranty.
Keystone is not excluding their customers that installed the Anderson hitch prior.
This situation reminds me of when "chips" were the popular thing to add to your new truck for additional performance. Truck owners quickly found out that adding a chip might void their engine warranty. Due to the engine was not tested to perform with the changes the chip made.
I wanted to hopefully shed some light on the situation. Keystone is in the same situation as all other brands with the Anderson Ultimate Hitch.
If I'm wrong and you have written approval by another brand for the Ultimate hitch, please share it.
Thank you.
__________________
DBA Samtana
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04-02-2021, 03:42 PM
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#56
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 52
M.O.C. #22048
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OMG.. I just checked and your so right!
Maybe one is a French/ Canadian spelling- lol
How could a large corporation distribute a memo not even properly spelling the name?? Oops..
__________________
“ it’s all good in the trailerhood”
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04-02-2021, 07:35 PM
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#57
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,669
M.O.C. #2283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugchick
OMG.. I just checked and your so right!
Maybe one is a French/ Canadian spelling- lol
How could a large corporation distribute a memo not even properly spelling the name?? Oops..
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If the name isn’t spelled correctly and you took this to court could this be enforced. After all this isn’t the same company. On the other hand if Montana says warranty denied what are you going to do. Unless of course you have really deep pockets.
Lynwood
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04-02-2021, 07:40 PM
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#58
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Carson City
Posts: 2,017
M.O.C. #21963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mootana
Montana Owners:
I continue to read owners making aggressive comments about Keystone due to the Anderson hitch letter.
The stance and situation on the Anderson hitch is no different for any manufacturer using a Lippert frame. So the situation is the same for Jayco, Forest River, Grand Design, Alliance..........
The difference is that prior to the letter, there may have been communication from Keystone employees that the Anderson hitch was approved. The letter was to "officially" notify all Keystone dealers that the Anderson hitch is not approved by Lippert.
And because statements that may have been made by Keystone employees, in the letter Keystone states "Fifth wheels affected by the use of the Anderson Ultimate 5th Wheel connection goose neck adapters installed prior to March 15, 2021, follow the normal process to receive warranty consideration". They will not be excluded from warranty.
Keystone is not excluding their customers that installed the Anderson hitch prior.
This situation reminds me of when "chips" were the popular thing to add to your new truck for additional performance. Truck owners quickly found out that adding a chip might void their engine warranty. Due to the engine was not tested to perform with the changes the chip made.
I wanted to hopefully shed some light on the situation. Keystone is in the same situation as all other brands with the Anderson Ultimate Hitch.
If I'm wrong and you have written approval by another brand for the Ultimate hitch, please share it.
Thank you.
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I am following this topic from the sidelines as I don't have one of these hitches. But, my question is that if Lippert is not in favor of these hitches, why continue using them? If a hitch is suspected of causing serious problems, why continue using it. What difference does an install date matter? Why risk a problem just because a manufacturer may honor a warranty?
__________________
2016 3160, Legacy, Sailuns, Splendide 2100 xc vented, 1 1/2" axle lift blocks, disk brakes. 2014 Ram 3500 SRW SWB 4X4 6.7 Aisin Mega Cab, EBC slotted disks and brakes, Titan fuel tank.
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04-02-2021, 07:54 PM
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#59
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Elkins
Posts: 56
M.O.C. #24660
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Ref: Anderson hitch
I have used the Anderson hitch on the last two fifth wheels, and have always liked it, but with this latest Montana, the weight is considerably more, and I am having second thoughts. At 75 years old I am still concerned with being able to get the hitch out by myself. I was thinking about the Demco recon attached to gooseball, only about 90lbs, and in three pieces. I then starting asking myself if this would be considered a gooseball adapter? What do you guys think? My 2019 model is about at the end of the warranty on frame, but I don't want to do any damage!
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04-02-2021, 08:10 PM
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#60
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Lodi
Posts: 221
M.O.C. #28242
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I believe, and I have used an anderson on 2 5th wheels, that the letter and concern is with the adaptor block, not the Anderson hitch itself.
I looked over the Demco last night and think it is very lightweight compared to all other options I can find. The reese goosebox
https://www.etrailer.com/Gooseneck-a...e/RP94720.html
might be the best option, although it is a beast weight wise but not a problem once installed. One You tuber mentioned he had to reduce the bag air pressure to unhitch, but that is the only negative I can find, and he might have a unique setup needing more air causing this mentioned problem for him. I think I posted his review on this or the other Anderson post.
The next lightest option I have found , Curt for Ram, the legs and main body is posted as #125 once the head part is removed. Guess I am getting a hoist once home.
Good luck. I am setting my Anderson aside for use on my old Rockwood, until I am happy with the 3120, and I might still keep the Rockwood for it's smaller footprint for fall season. It has been perfectly modified for that use.
Allen
__________________
Old rig: 2005 Ram QC 1500 5.7- Rockwood 8288 4- 6v batteries
New rig: 2016 Ram 25004x4 QC LB & 3120rl legacy-solarflex 300w and 400Ah Battleborn
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