3/4 vs. 1 ton suspension - Page 4 - Montana Owners Club

Waynem · 02-15-2008, 11:49 AM

My 2 cents worth.
As Tom said, back in the old days, I had an 88 Chevy 1500 long bed. I was not towing then. It had an extra leaf spring added on each side. The carrying capacity was considerably higher than what the vehicle was "rated" for. Considering that the 1500 is a 1/2 ton truck, there were many times that I had 2000 pounds of palleted material in the back of that truck. With the extra spring, it just sat level. Without a load, the rear end was elevated a few inches.

Now in all honesty, it did increase the carrying capacity of the truck. Did it change the sticker rating of the truck? I don't think so. Now you could argue with the officer that the extra leaf spring gives you a higher carrying capacity, but you can't argue that the sticker still says 1/2 ton. (3/4 ton in your case)

You may have peace of mind by adding a leaf to a 3/4 ton to be able to carry a larger load, but now-a-days, there may be subtle differences that make the 1 ton capable of the loads it is designed for versus a 3/4 ton and the loads it is designed for. Adding an extra leaf spring just gives the axle a little leeway when you put more weight in the back. Are the engines the same? Are the emission controls the same? Is the transmission the same, and by that the same bolt configuration and mounting? Is the rear end the same? Are the tires rated the same? Ad Infinitum!

I'm not going to post on this subject anymore because I really don't know enough about it, but I sure would call my insurance company to see if I was covered by adding an extra leaf.

SlickWillie · 02-15-2008, 12:08 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by exav8tr

"OK guys (and gals), let's don't get hostile, but I found this subject interesting. From the little research I've done, I believe the GMC 2500 and 3500 suspension is very near the same. Perhaps just a difference in springs and tires. I still have more research I want to do, including a call to my GMC parts man back home. Opinions? Facts? I think I am well within my vehicle weight limits, but I am just curious."

It seems we have gotten a little off topic. I am curious to find out if you have gotten an answer to your original question from anyone in the know????? Not answers about weight, tailgates, louvers, beat up old trucks or "so-called" legal issues..

Thanks for checking on this......

Phil, I saw your post on the other thread, and noticed you got flamed pretty good. I haven't had the time to pursue this like I want to. We have been watching one of our friends grand daughter from Salado, TX play softball here in Aransas Pass. We've been making two games a day. The young lady's Dad went to school with our two son's, and we felt it important to support her. So much for that.

I am unsure about this, and have an open mind. I just can't believe how some feel they cannot discuss issues such as this sanely. One of the places I have been searching is GMPartsdirect. They have an online catalog, and from the little research I've had the time to do, it looks like they have two axle shaft numbers for the 11.50 differential. One is for the wide axle (dually) and the other the narrow. My next thing to be sure about, is the differential itself. I know it is the Eaton G80 locker, and I think it is the 11.50", but I'm not ready to say for sure. To my knowledge, the G80 is available in different sizes.

Tom, I saw your post about the Dana differential. Mind if I ask where you got your info? Been years since I drove a Ford truck, and I don't know where to find info on them. Rich has provided some good info from the Ford site. Perhaps I can find it on there when time permits. Thanks

BTW Wayne, I didn't see your post until after I posted (got tied up on the phone). When is the last time you had to argue with an officer about the weight rating on your personal vehicle? You call the insurance company any time you change anything on your vehicle? Just curious, as I've been around quite awhile, and never had to do either.

richfaa · 02-15-2008, 01:24 PM

This has been one of the more interesting learning topics. Although many of us have made a great effort to seek the true facts It is obvious that we collectively have a lot of good information but not the expertise to determine exactly what the difference is. When we get back home to Ford Country I will attempt to ask the right questions to the right people at Ford.We do know a some Folks in design and engineering.I am just curious to know what the difference really is...... I would still go for the 1 ton dually..any brand..

mtheo · 02-15-2008, 01:37 PM

I have been reading this tread and wondered, all of those that go so strongly by the factory number, do you know how they get them. From what I can find out is that there is no standard in the industry as how to test these trucks. The best I can find is each company uses different standards. There is talk about having a standard for all companies to follow. That being said they can make work the number any way they want. I presonally would love for them to have some standard test.
Just my two cents.

sreigle · 02-15-2008, 01:49 PM

I realize adding suspension does not change the official ratings. But that's not relevant in the USA, anyhow, since those numbers carry no legal ramifications for private vehicles. Possible liability concerns, yes. Overweight tickets, no.

Rich, at Tybee Island back a couple of years ago we had a neighbor with a nearly identical 2005 F250 as ours except he had the extra spring. We compared our window stickers which we both had saved and the Camper Package was the difference.

As for the payload and gvwr not changing (does the payload maybe change?) with the camper package, I'd think that has to do with marketing. There has to be some differentiation between 3/4 and 1 ton ratings or nobody would pay the extra for the 1 ton. We're talking SRW here, not dually.

Mark, there is some movement towards a uniform method to determine the ratings in the future. I read something a month or two ago that the manufacturers are to work together on this. I don't recall if it's a government or private initiative, though.

That would be very welcome to me. As it is, in 2006 Dodge went to a much heavier, fully boxed frame, a new automatic transmission and some other changes. I'm not sure if that includes brakes but I think it did. Yet they did not change their ratings until the 2008 (I'm not sure about 2008, it may be the 2009 models) about which I read there are no additional changes that would affect the ratings. They just finally decided to up the ratings. I don't have a lot of facts on the Dodge situation, just what I'm reading. In any case, uniform rating methods would be welcome.

exav8tr · 02-15-2008, 01:57 PM

Tom, I appreciate your input, but we were discussing the GM products and not the Fords.

tom41 · 02-15-2008, 02:07 PM

Sorry Phil, I just thought I had seen where Fords were being named in some of this thread, but I'll bow out of this thread And Will, I got my information from Ford, and also since I have a 99 F-350, It does have the Dana 80. Sorry guys to have intruded! Gotta go clean some Crappie anyways.

sreigle · 02-15-2008, 02:11 PM

I'll bow out, too. Sorry for going off topic. I thought observations about the Fords might lead to some thought on the GM's. But I let it get out of hand.

bsmeaton · 02-15-2008, 02:18 PM

I hardly think Tom was the only Ford contributor here and he certainly didn't deserve to be singled out like that Phil. Why don't you start from the top.

tom41 · 02-15-2008, 02:26 PM

DANA 60 (REVERSE CUT) 78-92
R.G.DIAMETER 9-3/4"
12 BOLT 1/2 X 20
10 BOLT COVER Pinion Diameter 1.625" 29 Spline
R&P Fit 4.10 & Numerically Lower Case
Vehicle Model Year
F250 F 78-79
F350 F 85-93

DANA 60 RING & PINIONS
PART # TEETH RATIO
D60/410R 41-10 4.10R
D60/456R 41-09 4.56R
D60/488R 39-08 4.88R

tom41 · 02-15-2008, 02:27 PM

DANA 80
R.G. Diameter 11.25"
12 Bolt 1/2 X 20 RH
10 Bolt Cover Pinion Diameter 2" 37 Spline
3.73 & Numerically Lower
4.10 & Numerically Higher
Vehicle Model Year
CHEVROLET C3500 88&UP
DODGE D/W350 94&UP
FORD F350,F450 88&UP

OEM DANA 80 RING & PINIONS
PART # SPICER#
D80/463* 707060-1X
D80/513* 707060-4X
*includes pinion bearings ,r.g. bolts, shims, seal, gasket, pinion nut & washer

SlickWillie · 02-15-2008, 02:29 PM

Guys, don't bow out now. It is 3/4 ton and 1 ton suspension question. I just happen to have the GMC. Dang, we're just getting a good discussion going. I'm with Steve on the issue of the weight ratings here in the US. I've never known of anyone towing an RV of their own to be stopped for weight reasons. But then, there is that story; my friend's first cousin's wife's husband....you know what I'm talking about.

tom41 · 02-15-2008, 02:33 PM

No mention of dana 80 used in any brand 3/4 but i'm sorry fellows, but i'll say goodnight to this thread just hope no ones feelings got hurt! LOL, hell life to short to get P---- !

tom41 · 02-15-2008, 02:59 PM

Guys, I went back to the beginning of this thread, It was about GM product. I have to say I was wrong in getting into this, guess I thought I was on the ford diesel forum! LOL, But dont blame you fellows with GM trucks, I would be worried about the springs also! LOL, just teaseing! Good night guys.

dsprik · 02-15-2008, 03:38 PM

I just like the cartoons and animations...

exav8tr · 02-15-2008, 04:22 PM

Tom, I was not offended by your responses, and I hope you did not take any offense at mine. I just happen to be a Chevy owner and am very interested in this topic. Your information seems very creditable and If I was a Ford owner I would welcome it, I'm just not sure if information on Fords, Dodges, Hondas, Toyotas (or any other brand for that matter) is applicable to GM products. If YOU felt singled out, my apologies.

Brad you are certainly entitled to your opinion, whether you are on topic or not.

jretz · 02-15-2008, 05:11 PM

Sorry for another ford statement but I just had to ask, if the extra spring is on the F-250 with a camper package what do I have on my F-350 with a camper package? I know they gave me a certificate that says the truck is certified to be camper ready and I got an stabilizer in the back but what else? If the extra spring of the Camper package makes an F-250 compatible with an F-350 SRW did the camper package make me compatible with an F-350 dually or an F-450 or is the camper package more for stability and anti sway with the heavy high center of gravity load? With that I will set out and watch this discussion grow.

SlickWillie · 02-16-2008, 01:01 AM

The reason the OP mentioned the GM products is that my truck is that; Sierra 2500HD. MY intention was to include the Big 3. That was because an earlier thread by another poster had sort of become hijacked when the poster ask for info. My apologies if I my original post distorted the intent of the topic.

I may drive a Dodge or Ford next, so I want to know the facts best I can. How are things put together to obtain those higher ratings?

richfaa · 02-16-2008, 01:57 AM

We understand that this was a GM question but the Ford Build your own truck site provides more information that the GM site ann I would suspect that they are all much the same. Jertz..In answer to your question go to the FOMOCO site then the build your own vehicle page and play with the different trucks..you will really be scratching your head. To quote Will "How are things put together to obtain those higher ratings" is the real issue any brand.

bsmeaton · 02-16-2008, 02:58 AM

I do have an opinion Phil, and being entitled to it goes without permission.

Perhaps we should let the author of the thread determine topic, and the rest be participants. There is plenty of space to start your very own topic if it is not going the direction you wish.

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