New Light Weight Montana's

[Irlpguy]

The only experience I have had with cable systems was on both Alaskan campers I owned, over several years I had problems with cables fraying and pullies breaking or separating from the frame. This was merely a raise/lower mechanism and was not subjected to the same forces as a room slideout. In spite of the problems it did work.

Any other experience with slides has been either hydraulic or electric motor driven. Those that remember the early slide outs will also know that there has been a huge improvement over the years.

On lighter built, entry level units that I have first hand knowledge of (daughters trailer & friends 5er) the lighter material in the cabinets did not stand up well and the slide mechanisms were also very troublesome.

I have so far had no problems with my hydraulic slides on both my recent 5th wheels, they go in and out smoothly and have always closed tightly/sealed both open and closed.

The catch words "Helium Technology" relate only to the RV industry when you google it, as I said in an earlier post I did that and watched the video's on the cable slides now being used, including the repair video. Some fancy name or word is always used when promoting products, remember "Artic Insulation Package".. Might sell more units but in reality it is something dreamed up by the advertising department.

Until such times as the top of the line RV manufacturers start using all cable slide mechanisms I will not consider them an improvement, only a method of reducing construction costs and weight. Time on the market in differing conditions and travel habits will tell a much more complete story.

I am afraid I still don't see how any of those units can be pulled by a 1/2 ton truck and achieve load limits on the TV, where is the proof.

 

[richfaa]

this is source http://www.trailerlife.com/trailer-towing-guides/

 

[troutslayer]

The lighter RVs use plastic toilets! There's an example of weight savings. Or maybe its a "Helium Toilet"

 

[8.1al]

Our Montana came with a "plastic toilet" and I wish I hadn't replaced it. We had no problems keeping water in that el cheapo

 

[Rainer-MOC]

quote:Originally posted by Flymutt

The lighter RVs use plastic toilets! There's an example of weight savings. Or maybe its a "Helium Toilet"

Ours is porcelain . . . But even if it wasn't, I'm not too concerned about where my crap goes, since it ends up in plastic tank anyway.

 

[subra1228]

For the record, we've fulltimed in the High Country for nearly two years now - no complaints about issues pertaining to the lower weighty. we pull (with, again, no issues) with an F-250 (gas motor). The cabinetry, bathroom, sofa, chairs, etc....are all holding up very well. The slides work well. All's good.

 

[Rainer-MOC]

quote:Originally posted by subra1228

For the record, we've fulltimed in the High Country for nearly two years now - no complaints about issues pertaining to the lower weighty. we pull (with, again, no issues) with an F-250 (gas motor). The cabinetry, bathroom, sofa, chairs, etc....are all holding up very well. The slides work well. All's good.

Thanks for going "on the record". Most everyone who was doubting HC's was going through hearsay, rumors, innuendos, or even flawed reasoning.

The way I look at it, the odds of getting a great RV is 50/50 - either you get one, or you don't. Just like coin tossing, where the odds remain 50/50 even though heads has shown up 7 times in a row, the odds that heads will show up again is 50/50 because the outcome of the previous flips have no relevance on subsequent flips.

 

[grayghost03]

8000 miles on the 2012 HC 343RL, no issues, and the porcelean toilet is holding up well. Just pulled it 800 miles this week, came in today, happy, happy, happy.

 

[Irlpguy]

quote:
Richfaa wrote:
this is source http://www.trailerlife.com/trailer-towing-guides/

I went to an official Ford website and found all the Ford F150’s listed, including both 5L – V8 and 3.5L –V6, of them all the greatest GVWR is 8200 lbs. This requires both the Max Tow Package and the Heavy Duty Payload Package to get that rating. The Maximum load capacity I could find was 2810 according to Ford’s information. (I discounted a SB 4x2 regular cab because how many would pull their Monty with that truck)

I looked up any truck with a GVWR of 8200 lbs and the curb weight was a “minimum” of 5390 lbs.

If we add the “average weight per person” 154 lbs x 2 we add another 308 lbs to the curb weight, add another 250 lbs for the hitch and a few tools and we are now up to 558 lbs. Subtract that from the 2810 load capacity and we are left with 2352 lbs that this truck can carry without being overloaded. Don’t forget the weight of the fuel.

If we hook up the lightest 325RL Montana with a pin weight of 1950 lbs “empty” we are left with the ability to add 402 lbs to either the pin weight or other cargo or accessories on the truck, and still be within the load capacity of the any of the F150’s.

When you add a second AC and WD in these Keystone units, the pin weight goes up accordingly. Now add in all you want to carry with you.

If you read the part in your link from “For Example” (page 7) there is a bunch of what I call smoke and mirrors regarding towing capacity. Keep reading and you will get to a paragraph beginning with “However you have yet to check all the numbers etc.”
Now this is where it becomes very important and you can forget all that comes before these figures. These calculations are what to me determine the “true” capacity of any TV.
You might note all the referencing was with either 250 or 350 trucks, not 150's.

Here is a picture of an actual door sticker taken today on a F150 with the 8200 lb GVWR. This is a plain Jane truck, LB, 4 x 4 with no running boards, side step or any luxury items at all. It is a “work” truck basically for contractors.

What anyone chooses to buy for an RV or TV is their own personal choice, I would only suggest you make yourself aware of that little door sticker and it's importance to the capacity of your choice of TV.

 

[grayghost03]

Doesn't make much difference, but curb weight is with all fluids and a full tank of fuel. Ready to drive away from the "Curb" as delivered. But it does save a couple of hundred pounds in the calculation.

 

[Irlpguy]

Not in my calculations grayghost03, I did not add the weight of fuel. Many like yourself add additional fuel tanks.

 

[richfaa]

GVWR is what the total the truck can weigh. GCWR is the total weight of the truck and RV,, CC is what one can put in The truck.true CC is the actual weight of the truck ready for towing less the sticker GVWR. That number is commonly the pin weight that you can support. The truck will also have a TT and 5th wheel tow capacity. yes that sticker is important as is the actual weight of the truck and RV. The link I provided is a source. I carried that with me when we sold these things.
This is the Ford 150 tow guide from Ford.

http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/13flrv&tt_f150.pdf

 

[DQDick]

My concern has never been for the original weight of the trailer, but the weight of all the crap Joyce and I insist we have to have traveling around the country with us.

 

[richfaa]

The first time we had the rig weighed at the Fall rally was a throat clutcher and resulted in a serious rig weight reduction program. Having sold these things and having a CDL I know how to figure weights and also know that the average Rv buyer knows little or noting about them. In fact the average Rv user today knows little or nothing about them.

Our 08 F-350 has a GVWR of 13K and fully loaded and ready to tow weighs in at 9K + or - a few. That means our real CC
is 4K not the CC posted on the door sticker. The real pin weight of the Montana at the last weigh in was 2800 lbs and that will vary a bit. Now my GCWR on the 08 Ford is 23,500 lbs Which means we can hang @ 14,500lbs on the truck NOT the GVWR listed on the Mongtana Sticker.That is IF we want to stay within all spec's..At least we know the numbers.

 

[TLightning]

Re the sticker posted earlier...that is only half the information. The Tire and Loading Information sticker, on the driver's door somewhere, will give you the actual cargo capacity for that truck to the nearest one pound.

 

[richfaa]

Exactly Tom and even fewer people know about that.

 

[Irlpguy]

TLightning & Richfaa I am not trying to start an argument, my understanding is the Tire sticker and the weight listed there applies only to the tires that vehicle was shipped with from the factory, and is based on the Max load @ a given psi for those tires. That sticker on my truck shows a max load of 4259 lbs. That to me means the max you can carry above the curb weight of the truck as shipped would be 4259 on those tires. I think it fairly safe to say the tires on your truck will be capable of carrying any weight up to the Max GVWR of the truck. Although they are indeed borderline the tires shipped on our heavy Montana's do somewhat exceed the GVWR ratings of the trailer when you deduct 20% for pin weight. But that is a topic that has been covered many times.

On my 2012 Dodge the tire pressure sticker says to inflate the front to 70 psi and the dual rears to 65 psi for Max load. The ratings on the tires themselves indicate they are rated for Max load at a Max pressure of 80 psi.

Drive across a weigh scale, they don't care what Ford, Dodge or Gm say the tow capacity of your truck is, they care what the weights are at the axles, and that the GVWR weights listed on the stickers of both the truck and the trailer are not being exceeded.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Richfaa: Before I made my first trip after purchasing my bigger, heavier Montana I obtained the weights for my truck loaded and ready to go, weighing each axle separately. I also weighed the Montana loaded and ready to go and attached to my truck again weighing all three axles individually. I then knew the "exact" individual axle weight of the truck, pin weight and "exact" weight the trailer axles were carrying. There was no need to grasp my throat since everything was within the GVWR of the truck and the trailer. The axle/tire combination of the trailer was also within their ratings. My GCWR was 24,140 lbs, I do not know nor care if that is within the tow capacity for my truck. All I am/was concerned with was that the capacity of the truck and trailer limits were not exceeded, they were not and I would not hesitate to be checked at any point. I carry those scale tickets with me as proof of what my units weighed in at.

If everyone knew the "actual" weights of their vehicles I think there might be more throat clutching going on. One thing I know for sure, and that is I know the weight of my combination singly and together and I am not close to throat clutching or even gasping.

 

[richfaa]

We are not commercial and do not have to worry about being weighed .We are weighed at rallies exactly as you describe above. We try to do that once a year. We do our best to stay within spec's not any particular reason we just want to. We do not understand what you think anyone is trying to start an argument???

 

[Irlpguy]

This is not about being Commercial, we have been down this road before as we are "not" commercial in Canada either. We do however have to insure out vehicles are within the limits of our vehicles and licenses. You might get your vehicles weighed at rally's "not for any particular reason", however I do it for safety and other reasons, not just for myself and my family but for the sake of all the other vehicles I pass on the highways. I do not just "do my best" to stay within specs, I am very particular about doing so. I also do this to ensure the tires on my RV in particular, are not being stressed by being overloaded, by knowing my "actual" weights I can be reasonably sure that if there is a problem it was not for that reason.

The Ford dealer I visited yesterday has been in business for 40 years locally, they have no clue about what any of their trucks are capable of except to quote the Ford "Tow capacity" in their brochures. I have found the same is true at most RV dealers with respect to their knowledge on the subject. It is up to the owner to inform themselves of what is important to ensure their safety and the longevity of their vehicles with respect to weights. All 1 ton trucks among the big three today are capable of "towing" any of the Montana line of RV's. That does not mean we cannot exceed the GVWR of any one of those vehicles, unlikely today, but possible. The GVWR is posted on the door of them all, it is also posted on the sticker on all the RV's. Stay within those ranges with some room to spare, and your towing experience will undoubtedly be a better one. Overload either and you can expect problems to occur.

I understand licensing requirements in some states require different licenses for vehicles over a certain GVWR, if you were on the borderline you might be required to prove you were not over a certain weight, one's unit would have to be weighed to determine it's actual weight I would think.

Richfaa I do not know the motives of anyone else posting to this thread, it was not an accusation, it was to say these are my comments, and they are not intended to start an argument with anyone.

Since the Tire sticker was brought up here, I would like to know what the significance of that information is with respect to the GVWR of the TV. Other than as I mentioned the relationship to the load capacity of the tires. Why should anyone be concerned with it?

 

[Richard66]

I have had the 343RL HC for over two years and have pulled it over 15k with no problems. I have pulled this unit through mountains in Colorado, Utah and most of the Western and Northern states and have seen no evidence that light weight has lowered the reliability or quality of the unit. As far as the electric cable slides, they are working fine. I have had Montana's with conventional slides and find no big difference as to reliability. Change is a good thing and I am glad I embraced it and went light weight.