New Floorplan / All One Level FW

[DutchmenSport]

... Just remember you heard it here first AND many folks (including Keystone) said it could not be done!!!!! Of course I got the same thing when I suggested the original basement garage concept until Grand Design actually made it!!!

Maybe someone from Grand Design is actually reading their competition forums web sites and taking note getting to the market first!

 

[rslopez65]

All that storage underneath and you have a slide to maneuverer under to access it. And the U-shaped pantry is a disaster waiting to happen. It is pretty on the eyes but on closer look, I think we will pass. I did like the TV mount and it really has tons of storage behind it. The bedroom TV is wasted on us as we never use it. The bedroom fireplace is lovely to look at but where do I put my underwear.

 

[DutchmenSport]

Reading all these comments about THIS specific fifth wheel makes me think, that maybe, the manufacturer's visionary purpose for it was more of a stationary Park Model concept. Everything about this camper would work well if it were parked permanently and never moved. The storage under, flat shelves in a U shaped pantry, a toilet that can be used only when the slide is out, top heavy (center of gravity high), and floating floor / structural framing concerns??? If it were towed, parked and never moved again, it would be a nice substitute for a park model. If the intent is TRAVEL, it appears it's not very designed very well for that. But, as stated above, we each use our campers in a different way and it will be targeted to a select audience, same as every make and model.

Keystone has started building fifth wheels with basements under the rear with raised living rooms, actually creating an upstairs in the front, and in the back, with the kitchen middle area sunk, which still gives the feeling of a much higher ceiling and still provides a lot of storage under the floor. In a way, this concept appeals more to me than one floor. It would be nice if Keystone took note of the air conditioner system in this model. It would be nice to have more information on the air conditioner ... yes, agree.

 

[mtlakejim]

If the concept also used Mini Split A/C units the roof line could be extended all the way to 13'6" to add a little more headroom or basement height (I don't think folks buying this to bring their toys are all that worried about ceiling height in living area it is all about how big can the toys be). For me the high ceiling in the kitchen area is just a waste of space that would serve much better in a storage area under my feet (keeping in mind I am 6'2").


Also if they used a wide body and Independent Suspension then the basement could be lowered to add additional garage space for toys. On the Montana 381TH you can already fit a golf cart in the garage. Wouldn't take much to get it to the point where a standard side by side would fit (a trail model will but not a standard).


One other thing that most folks are missing here, having a single level in the living area is great for handicapped folks. I'm not but can see where this floorplan fixes a very big issue for people that can't go up and down stairs. Just add a wheel chair lift at the entry stairs and once inside there is no problem with interior stairs!! And for that matter, even healthy folks don't like to be constantly going up and down stairs between rooms!!

 

[dlscott]

Heartland Torque had a similar floor plan back in 2015. Here’s a listing for one from rv trader: https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2015-Heartland-TORQUE-TQ-270-HG-5014935097
It’s a toy hauler.

 

[scottz]

.... Okay here’s where most people are not going to want to talk about, the required tow vehicle for this unit....

An F150 with the 2.7L EcoBoost should be able to handle it. No doubt, someone will try.

 

[scottz]

Keystone has started building fifth wheels with basements under the rear with raised living rooms, actually creating an upstairs in the front, and in the back, with the kitchen middle area sunk, which still gives the feeling of a much higher ceiling and still provides a lot of storage under the floor. In a way, this concept appeals more to me than one floor. It would be nice if Keystone took note of the air conditioner system in this model. It would be nice to have more information on the air conditioner ... yes, agree.

Sounds like you are describing a Montana 3790.

 

[scottz]

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see it being top heavy. It would only be top heavy is you put a bunch of stuff in the living area. Seems to me, most heavy things would be stored below.

 

[jamesb]

An F150 with the 2.7L EcoBoost should be able to handle it. No doubt, someone will try.

A F150 with the 2.7 EcoBoost DUALLY would definitely handle it, would say the salesman

 

[JeffB-FRF]

One other thing that most folks are missing here, having a single level in the living area is great for handicapped folks. I'm not but can see where this floorplan fixes a very big issue for people that can't go up and down stairs. Just add a wheel chair lift at the entry stairs and once inside there is no problem with interior stairs!! And for that matter, even healthy folks don't like to be constantly going up and down stairs between rooms!!

Jim, my wife has mobility issues and vision problems. That death pit would negate any advantages of no interior stairs

 

[JLM-MOC]

Way to many steps.. Might as well buy a motorhome

 

[mtlakejim]

Jim, my wife has mobility issues and vision problems. That death pit would negate any advantages of no interior stairs

So the steps inside the rig are not an issue???? Our rig has three steps from kitchen up to front living room and three steps from kitchen up to bedroom/bathroom in rear. Your telling me that three entry steps once to get into the rig is a bigger issue than going up and down the interior steps dozens of times while inside???? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Your going to have to deal with steps at some point. To me only dealing with them once makes more sense?

Besides you can gate off the entry steps (like the model they show did AND you can add a wheelchair lift system at the entry (which I have seen on some units).

 

[mhs4771]

For some it's not the steps, but that big open gap in the floor. The video shows a strange fence/Baby gate setup to keep from falling into it, but looks like a real PITA to go out and wouldn't want to contend with it in an emergency exit.
In the typical DP those stairs are at the front passenger seat, not in the middle of the living space that you walk by numerous times a day.

 

[mlh]

An F150 with the 2.7L EcoBoost should be able to handle it. No doubt, someone will try.

I’m sure my 2.7 Ecoboost would handle it and still get 22 MPH but I’m still not going to try it. I hope you don’t believe that.
Lynwood

 

[mtlakejim]

For some it's not the steps, but that big open gap in the floor. The video shows a strange fence/Baby gate setup to keep from falling into it, but looks like a real PITA to go out and wouldn't want to contend with it in an emergency exit.
In the typical DP those stairs are at the front passenger seat, not in the middle of the living space that you walk by numerous times a day.

I'm not going to argue that the configuration of the entry steps on the unit shown and the baby gate setup is not the best solution. BUT this issue could be engineered out. My though would be bring the steps in right behind a front living room and put a couch and 1/2 wall on the front side of the steps. That would route normal foot traffic around the steps. Add an L shaped countertop on the other side of the steps in the kitchen and they would be totally contained.

The above is just one example of using engineering to resolve a potential issue. I have thought about this floorplan a LOT. Your going to have to work a lot harder to come up with an excuse why it can't be built than that!

To me it is a game changer much like the 380/381TH was and the next obvious evolution on the design. I don't think there is anyone on here that can argue that the 380/381 is a very popular floorplan. Proof of that is that all three of the major umbrella companies have at least one copy in their lineup and Keystone has four!

One other great thing about a level living area floor is it allows you to adjust the living area spaces. For example you could have a smaller kitchen and larger bedroom/bathroom! That opens up a whole range of possibilities!

And I really think that folks still underestimate the size of the empty nesters with toys market. They certainly have blinders on and think that the only toys that folks want to carry are Harleys. That couldn't be further from the truth. There are a very large number of folks that want to be able to carry toys of all sorts but don't like the layout of conventional toyhaulers with their utility garage and bent neck TVs.

 

[mach1muscle351]

They should have an option to do away with the railing and have an electronic floor that covers the stairs hmm

 

[CADman_KS]

If the concept also used Mini Split A/C units the roof line could be extended all the way to 13'6" to add a little more headroom or basement height (I don't think folks buying this to bring their toys are all that worried about ceiling height in living area it is all about how big can the toys be). For me the high ceiling in the kitchen area is just a waste of space that would serve much better in a storage area under my feet (keeping in mind I am 6'2".

...

Got this information on their website, but the interior height is 84" from front to back. It is also 101" wide, which may help somewhat with the travel trailer tunnel effect mentioned earlier. I don't know if this is a mini-split, per se, but it must be the same type of concept, as the A/C is in the basement. There are no units on the top, so the height is indeed 13'6" all the way to the top. The only thing really sticking up on the roof is the vent for the kitchen (I believe).

As has been said already, I have never seen anything like this, but that doesn't necessarily make it a new concept, as it may have been tried before.

At the end of the day, there a lot of things about this design that could lead to other GREAT ideas, and some of those are simple, like the mini-split concept. That is definitely something that is long overdue in 5'ers. I don't know if it's for us either, but I do like the thinking, and hope that it spurs more innovation in the industry...

 

[sourdough]

So the steps inside the rig are not an issue???? Our rig has three steps from kitchen up to front living room and three steps from kitchen up to bedroom/bathroom in rear. Your telling me that three entry steps once to get into the rig is a bigger issue than going up and down the interior steps dozens of times while inside???? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Your going to have to deal with steps at some point. To me only dealing with them once makes more sense?

Besides you can gate off the entry steps (like the model they show did AND you can add a wheelchair lift system at the entry (which I have seen on some units).

JMO but the poster saying the steps and their configuration was a problem for his wife with mobility and vision problems is his personal opinion based on what he and his wife feel safe with. He doesn't need to be attacked for their feelings or defend his/her decision on how they feel. What's good for you or me (it's not) on a subjective thing like this doesn't mean it's good for anyone else - nor does it have to be.

 

[Hblick48]

Height may be an issue if you add a satellite dish onto the roof.

 

[mtlakejim]

JMO but the poster saying the steps and their configuration was a problem for his wife with mobility and vision problems is his personal opinion based on what he and his wife feel safe with. He doesn't need to be attacked for their feelings or defend his/her decision on how they feel. What's good for you or me (it's not) on a subjective thing like this doesn't mean it's good for anyone else - nor does it have to be.

It wasn't intended as a PERSONAL attack but rather a counter to the statement made. It was a counter DEBATE.

I am, to say the least, VERY PASSIONATE about this design concept. After all, I was the guy that drew out the original floor plan concept for Grand Design. I advocated for same with Keystone and Forest River as well. In general, its just good to see the industry trying something different. I get so tired of seeing the same cookie cutter floor plans in all the lines year after year.

Granted this particular concept is not for everyone but it would be unwise to underestimate the market for it. There are a LOT more people out there than you think that would love to take larger toys with them but don't want a conventional toyhauler.