Montana Fifth Wheel vs. Tiny House: Best Choice for Full-Time Living in Harsh Climates?

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Member Title: Montana worth it these days? looking for full time living...
The main question shifted from “is a Montana still worth buying?” to a broader comparison of RV versus park model versus tiny house for semi-permanent living in Wyoming. Members largely agreed that Covid-era RV quality issues were real across much of the industry, but the practical advice was to inspect any unit carefully rather than assume every Montana is bad. Several members said the Montana front living layout is appealing and works well for living space, but they also stressed that any...
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mythai

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tetons
long story short. like a lot of guys these days i find myself and my situation on the short end of the stick. I'll save you the details...

looking for a full time living rig, after some research found the Montana line. I really like the front living -(FL) line up seems like a better fit for me.

the plan as of now id to life in the RV in the summer months in Wyoming then stay over seas in the winter. but really would like the option for full time living. as that might be necessary.
I have had two bus conversion but never had an proper 5th wheel.
prop. be a two it in to place and leave it there for years. ( i'll hook up to electric, swer & water )

I do have a few questions:

1. I heard ( read) that during covid they kinda with to ****. is this true? is quality back up?
2. how old of a Montana should one consider?
3. honestly I am between an RV and shed conversion in to tiny house. why would you pick RV over that?
4. is there a noobe to RV info anywhere I can start my education.

I am very much open to here your thoughts and feedback.
 
My opinions…
1. Based on my reading this forum and other forums - the RV industry experienced quality control issues during Covid. Not to say that quality issues appear on 100% of the units produced, but if you find a unit of interest - pay for a detailed inspection by a qualified inspector.
2. How old of a rig should you consider? Impossible question to answer…too many variables. How old of a Chevrolet should you consider? Well, that depends on a lot of things…
3. Shed/Tiny House vs. RV…it sounds like you are new to RVs. If you plan to be the builder/remodeler of the shed/tiny house, you can control quality, speed and workmanship of the project. Got a clogged up sewer pipe? You put it there and you know where to go to fix it. In “the Tetons” I’m not sure you would EVER finish fixing and maintaining an RV. My vote goes to the tiny home.
4. The best source for noob education is the forums.
This forum is a fantastic source for Montana fifth wheels.
Do you want a diesel pusher? Go read IRV2.
Do you want a Jayco product - go read the Jayco Owners forum
Interested in an Airstream…and so forth and so on…
 
New or used, large or small, any RV is a perpetual money pit and a perpetual handy man's dream come true. If you have both a solid revenue stream and mechanical skills with the equipment to match, then an RV is a nice choice. You have an instant house with everything contained in it, no waiting, it's ready to go. But, an RV, even one that sits stationary long term will need constant attention in order to maintain it.

Building a shed conversion may be just as daunting or even worse. But, (as stated above in the prior post), when building, you control everything and you know where and how everything is built. Based on your two choices, you'll have better use of space in an RV, unless you are very crafty at building construction.

You said you have done 2 bus conversions. That is a good asset for you with either choice. You have mechanical skills.

Being in Wyoming, winters can be brutal cold. Insulating will be your biggest challenge and keeping plumbing, sewer and fresh water, lines from freezing will too.

I have a Montana High Country Front Living and absolutely love the floor plan. And we use our camper year round. We do travel between Indiana (our home), Louisiana where I do camp hosting about 8 months out of the year, and North Carolina where I do another camp host a month or two out of the year. But, we've done our share win Winter camping in near zero degree weather. And when the temps get that low, the furnace must be running to keep the underbelly of the camper warm and keep all those pipes and drains from freezing. We easily burn through a 30 pound tank of propane tank in 2 days or less. That can get costly. And we still supplement with electric heat. But, that furnace MUST be kept running to keep the underbelly warm. Tank heaters must be turned on, and water hoses and sewer hoses disconnected and drained or they will freeze up.

Winter camping (RV use) becomes a totally different animal than Summer (warm weather) use. If the camper is not being used over the winter, winterizing is a must. It's not a big deal to winterize after you've done it the first time. If the camper is going to be shut down over the cold weather months, then all liquids, foods, everything needs to be removed so freezing containers won't break when contents turn to ice.

You will have the same problems and challenges with a stick-n-brick build too in the winter. Plus you'll no doubt want some type of air conditioning in the hot months.

You say you'll have water, electric, and sewer. If you do a shed build, where are you planning on doing this? Location is everything, zoning, and different local laws vary. If a camper is your final choice, will it be on private property or a campground? Either way, are you calculating in the cost of rent for a campsite, or the cost to rent a space to do the shed build? Campground sites do cost and they are not necessarily a cheap way to live. If purchasing your own private property, is it developed with the infastructure or are you going to have to have it all installed yourself. The cost of sewer (septic tank system or hooking into a city sewer system, installing electric, and getting water (drilling a well or connecting to city water) will cost thousands and thousands of dollars if the infastructure does not already exit.

Hopefully, you have all this calculated out ahead. If you are planning on living "off grid", you'll need to invest in a solar system for electricity, figure out how to get water, and what to do with "toilet" waste.

My opinion is different than Mikendebbie (above), I'd pick the Fifth Wheel. But ... I would not pick a travel trailer / fifth wheel ... I'd pick a "park model" designed for full time living and built to be stationary. Consider a park model.

BUT ... if you don't mind taking a trip to Minnesota, you might even consider purchasing an "ice house" RV. They are designed for extreme cold weather and ice fishing. Explore this option. You might be surprised.

Glacier Ice House - Click here.

Camping World article

Forest River Youtube video
 
long story short. like a lot of guys these days i find myself and my situation on the short end of the stick. I'll save you the details...

looking for a full time living rig, after some research found the Montana line. I really like the front living -(FL) line up seems like a better fit for me.

the plan as of now id to life in the RV in the summer months in Wyoming then stay over seas in the winter. but really would like the option for full time living. as that might be necessary.
I have had two bus conversion but never had an proper 5th wheel.
prop. be a two it in to place and leave it there for years. ( i'll hook up to electric, swer & water )

I do have a few questions:

1. I did this..
 

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thanks for the feedback guys!

to answer a few questions/ give more clarity.

the RV would be on a friends property he has 2 acers zoning is ok with tiny houses/RVs rent would be cheap. but I would either tire in to electric to get a good solar system. I would tire in to swer/water yes I know there would be pretty spendy.

as of right now I would just stay the in the RV in the warmer months say june -oct. ( I know oct can get pretty cold up here tho)
that said I would ideally set it up for full time year around living. just in case my winter plans dont work out as I envision.

yes I have done 2 bus conversion but to be honest they both where very simple builds outs no water or toilets so I do have some experience but consider myself med-low is the handy man field. i know just enough to think I can tackle a huge project but once I am in I am oh sh$t what have I gotten myself into. haha
 
On "YouTube " there is a lady called "Liz Amazing" . She posts people chamomile have had issues with rvs.. Here is the problem as she has posted. There was at a time many different RV makers. However, Investment Firms have basically bought all the separate manufacturers.. She calks it "WTF" WHICH stands for WINNEBAGO, Thor, FOREST RIVER. Her advice is to not buy from these. They are not in the business to make rvs, but to make money and only responsible to share holders. The work force gets paid for each unit they produce and not by the hour so the rvs are RUSHED. There are good rvs out there not under the WTF brands. The only solution I believe is to break up Thor, FOREST RIVER and WINNEBAGO. This will bring back competition. Not only will the rvs get better, but cheaper as well. The other answer is to look for an older unit. This is not only My opinion and the you tube Channel "Liz Amazing" Ours is in the shop again for the large slide.. 13500 in damage. This is not the fault of Keystone. This one is on me.. Leaving an rv park the driveway was steep. A ceramic glass fell out of the cabinet on the floor and under the slide. When i opened the slide the broken glass under the slide gouged and chewedup the flooring. ..

dang that sucks. sorry to hear about your rig.
i'll check out her YT channel. thanks
 
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New or used, large or small, any RV is a perpetual money pit and a perpetual handy man's dream come true. If you have both a solid revenue stream and mechanical skills with the equipment to match, then an RV is a nice choice. You have an instant house with everything contained in it, no waiting, it's ready to go. But, an RV, even one that sits stationary long term will need constant attention in order to maintain it.

Building a shed conversion may be just as daunting or even worse. But, (as stated above in the prior post), when building, you control everything and you know where and how everything is built. Based on your two choices, you'll have better use of space in an RV, unless you are very crafty at building construction.

You said you have done 2 bus conversions. That is a good asset for you with either choice. You have mechanical skills.

Being in Wyoming, winters can be brutal cold. Insulating will be your biggest challenge and keeping plumbing, sewer and fresh water, lines from freezing will too.

I have a Montana High Country Front Living and absolutely love the floor plan. And we use our camper year round. We do travel between Indiana (our home), Louisiana where I do camp hosting about 8 months out of the year, and North Carolina where I do another camp host a month or two out of the year. But, we've done our share win Winter camping in near zero degree weather. And when the temps get that low, the furnace must be running to keep the underbelly of the camper warm and keep all those pipes and drains from freezing. We easily burn through a 30 pound tank of propane tank in 2 days or less. That can get costly. And we still supplement with electric heat. But, that furnace MUST be kept running to keep the underbelly warm. Tank heaters must be turned on, and water hoses and sewer hoses disconnected and drained or they will freeze up.

Winter camping (RV use) becomes a totally different animal than Summer (warm weather) use. If the camper is not being used over the winter, winterizing is a must. It's not a big deal to winterize after you've done it the first time. If the camper is going to be shut down over the cold weather months, then all liquids, foods, everything needs to be removed so freezing containers won't break when contents turn to ice.

You will have the same problems and challenges with a stick-n-brick build too in the winter. Plus you'll no doubt want some type of air conditioning in the hot months.

You say you'll have water, electric, and sewer. If you do a shed build, where are you planning on doing this? Location is everything, zoning, and different local laws vary. If a camper is your final choice, will it be on private property or a campground? Either way, are you calculating in the cost of rent for a campsite, or the cost to rent a space to do the shed build? Campground sites do cost and they are not necessarily a cheap way to live. If purchasing your own private property, is it developed with the infastructure or are you going to have to have it all installed yourself. The cost of sewer (septic tank system or hooking into a city sewer system, installing electric, and getting water (drilling a well or connecting to city water) will cost thousands and thousands of dollars if the infastructure does not already exit.

Hopefully, you have all this calculated out ahead. If you are planning on living "off grid", you'll need to invest in a solar system for electricity, figure out how to get water, and what to do with "toilet" waste.

My opinion is different than Mikendebbie (above), I'd pick the Fifth Wheel. But ... I would not pick a travel trailer / fifth wheel ... I'd pick a "park model" designed for full time living and built to be stationary. Consider a park model.

BUT ... if you don't mind taking a trip to Minnesota, you might even consider purchasing an "ice house" RV. They are designed for extreme cold weather and ice fishing. Explore this option. You might be surprised.

Glacier Ice House - Click here.

Camping World article

Forest River Youtube video

the FL floor plan seems like a win for sure. glad you enjoy yours.
i'll look into the ice house and park models. I have years ago but thought there kinda crappy and RV seems "better" some how IDK I'll look around to see if I can find used ones. as that is what I am looking for. pretty tight budget.
 
Mythai
before we bought our Montana, I was like you... new to the whole thing.
2 youtube channels I found (in 2019/20200) that were very helpful at the time sorting out some of the differences in RV's, full time living vs part time and other important factors were:
Big Truck Big RV (BTBRV) and Josh the RV Nerd

This forum was very valuable as well.

talked about pros and cons of a number of different types and styles of RV, what important things to look for if going full time (I was looking at an RV as a home in Texas at the time).

Both youtube channels have drastically expanded their offerings, but I still believe them to be valuable.

It is much harder to keep warm than keep cool.... one upgrade I would suggest if the RV will be in a (semi) permanent location is to use a 250 or 500 gallon LP tank to tie into for heating. it can be a real challenge to keep up with swapping 30 or 40 pound tanks. Also, look into some of the pneumatic undercarriage insulation systems to help retain warmth in the winter (if you end up staying and not traveling)

Our Montana is a 2017 and we have been pleased overall. It moves so it needs maintenance. Ours is a front kitchen which we really like as it gives so much more living space in the center of the rig.

Best wishes on your hunt.
Bryon
 
thanks for the replay Bryon.
I did look ( online) at a few FK rigs. there not off the table but I think I life FL a bit better.
i found a rig where they had a fire place professionally installed in the middle of the RV. i am not sure how that works but it was interesting. it sold or under contract.

but yes a large propane tank would be needed out here if full time in the winter.
 
In your situation I would definitely look into a park model. From what I have read they are better constructed and have much better insulation than a standard RV. And although they are primarily designed to park and leave, they are also designed to be relatively mobile if that need or desire arises.
 
If you go with a 5er, once it is in place I would skirt it and build a pole barn over it to keep the snow off the roof. Having a roof over you will mitigate any roof leaks. One less thing to worry about.
 
If you go with a 5er, once it is in place I would skirt it and build a pole barn over it to keep the snow off the roof. Having a roof over you will mitigate any roof leaks. One less thing to worry about.
yes good point, that was the plan.
 
In your situation I would definitely look into a park model. From what I have read they are better constructed and have much better insulation than a standard RV. And although they are primarily designed to park and leave, they are also designed to be relatively mobile if that need or desire arises.
I did find some that where not to crazy. still like the look at lest from online viewing of the RV better. but park models are on the short list.
 
You didn't really say how many years you are expecting to use the RV or tiny house or discuss the finances which I wouldn't expect you to. A tiny house will be far more durable than any RV. It doesn't matter if you spend winters in the Maldives or in Wyoming, the exterior of the RV will be subject to the same weather elements. Residential exterior finishes are much more durable than an RV; a metal roof and cement board siding will likely outlast anyone old enough to read this forum and are maintenance free. I don't think I've ever seen a snow load spec for an RV which might be a consideration for that area. You can do a far superior job of insulating and air sealing a tiny home than any RV, windows and doors will seal better than any RV. It's much easier to find repair techs and parts for residential mechanical systems, unlike overpriced RV techs and repair parts. If you should decide to install solar, you can tilt and point them correctly for your area rather than just laying nearly flat on top of an RV roof. You should be able to incorporate space into a tiny home for battery storage than you can find in an RV.

Now for the financial considerations: A tiny house will likely be more expensive than an RV. Even a tiny house should at least hold value, more than likely gain some. An RV is absolutely guaranteed to lose value. I have no idea about permitting and taxes, those would be questions for your county officials. If you go with a tiny house and have it insured, they don't like to insure homes that go unoccupied for extended lengths of time, maybe you could count it like a hunting cabin, not really in my wheelhouse.
 
You didn't really say how many years you are expecting to use the RV or tiny house or discuss the finances which I wouldn't expect you to. A tiny house will be far more durable than any RV. It doesn't matter if you spend winters in the Maldives or in Wyoming, the exterior of the RV will be subject to the same weather elements. Residential exterior finishes are much more durable than an RV; a metal roof and cement board siding will likely outlast anyone old enough to read this forum and are maintenance free. I don't think I've ever seen a snow load spec for an RV which might be a consideration for that area. You can do a far superior job of insulating and air sealing a tiny home than any RV, windows and doors will seal better than any RV. It's much easier to find repair techs and parts for residential mechanical systems, unlike overpriced RV techs and repair parts. If you should decide to install solar, you can tilt and point them correctly for your area rather than just laying nearly flat on top of an RV roof. You should be able to incorporate space into a tiny home for battery storage than you can find in an RV.

Now for the financial considerations: A tiny house will likely be more expensive than an RV. Even a tiny house should at least hold value, more than likely gain some. An RV is absolutely guaranteed to lose value. I have no idea about permitting and taxes, those would be questions for your county officials. If you go with a tiny house and have it insured, they don't like to insure homes that go unoccupied for extended lengths of time, maybe you could count it like a hunting cabin, not really in my wheelhouse.
this is what i was thinking too. might just build a small stick build house something 400-700 Sqf very basic box with a pitched roof.
I did like the ease of the RV buy set up life in. but the more a research a tiny house/park model or shead conversion prop. would be the best way to go. its pretty intense weather up here with snow and wind in the winter and harsh sun the the summer.

my budget like the idea of a cheaper RV in the 20-40K range but if I double that prorb. be able to get something more substantial that would last and add value to my friend prob.
 
The other item not discussed (yet) but I have seen, is utilizing the RV for short term housing while building a small home, barndomineum, etc. In this type of situation, when you have a fixed structure, you can choose to sell the rv and recoup some dollars.... have seen a couple of situations where the RV was kept and used for travel as many of us use our RV's....

As mentioned earlier in this thread, even an uninsulated pole barn will provide sun and wind protection, and could be the base of a more permanent structure.

you have numerous options, you just need to decide which is most optimal for you

bryon
 
Whenever I cross paths with someone who has a Brinkley fifth wheel, they are very happy with it. I ask them some tough questions; they say it’s virtually pain-free. They love it.
 
Whenever I cross paths with someone who has a Brinkley fifth wheel, they are very happy with it. I ask them some tough questions; they say it’s virtually pain-free. They love it.
Interesting. I’m seeing ALOT of those this year.
And I have same unit as you. Lol
 

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