Frozen or something else?!? Help!!

[Alc13]

Semi-newby and just our third winter. Had no issues past few winters, but in a pickle. Any advice would be appreciated!

2015 keystone Montana 4 season with tank heaters etc. Been having to fill our freshwater tank. Has been getting down to the single digits.

Just tried to refill our freshwater and it’s not letting anything into the tank. Spits it back out so to speak. Spouse misread the water level yesterday and wasn’t aware we were about empty so it did go all last night with very little water in the tank. We had to unthaw the knob that you have to switch over to fill, but all the other knobs were working fine. Had an issue the other day were it appeared the pump froze as well (once we put a heater down there the pump worked). We were getting water just fine right before we attempted to fill it today, (until it got too low) so appears that portion of pipes is fine, as well as the pump, just can’t get water into the fresh water tank.

We aren’t seeing any leaks other than the spicket where we attach the hose to the unit; from the water coming back.

Any guidance on things we should look for that may cause the tank to not fill would be appreciated.

Also, any guidance on how to prevent the water pump and switch knob (one you switch to fill the tank) from freezing? It is heated down there (the pass through compartment) so not sure why the pump is freezing. We were going to insulate the area were the knobs/water hose connector is at.

We stayed in same temps before without an issue so a bit at a loss. We do run one electric heater in the bedroom and keep temp in the camper set at 65. Going to stop using the electric heater if that may be an issue? Feedback would be appreciated! Thank you!!!

 

[AZ Traveler]

Angela,

Sounds like it is frozen. Confirm you are using the furnace to heat your rig. Heat from electric heaters and the fireplace do not heat the underbelly. If you are experiencing single digit temps over a 24 hour period you may not thaw out until it gets warmer.

 

[DutchmenSport]

Hopefully there are no stupid questions, so let me ask this of you? You say you are running water from your fresh water tank, but where and in what condition is the garden hose in? Did you leave the garden hose exposed to the cold and not drain the water from it? In other words, is the garden hose frozen because it wasn't drained after the last time you used it. There might be absolutely nothing wrong with the camper. Check the garden hose, make sure water is actually running through it.

 

[Alc13]

We only have the garden hose attached when we are filling the tank. We have to bring the water in since the place we are staying at shuts off water in the winter.

 

[Daryles]

IF you are getting water from your freshwater tank via your pump, the freshwater tank and line are not frozen. If it will not fill from the "City Water" connector (somethingwrong with valve??), try filling it via the freshwater drain at the back bottom of your rig. DOUBLE Insulate this drain hose when you are done. I put a garden hose valve on it for easy draining.
Some people fill their freshwater tank through the tank vent. I'm not sure how successful this is since the water going in displaces air. No air out, no water in....

 

[Alc13]

Thanks everyone for the replies so far. We got it to fill yesterday and had no issues (warmed up to about 34 degrees outside),, however, pump started running last night after using the restroom and the tank was reading as empty. Was not running more than normal during the day so didn’t suspect a leak. So far we aren’t seeing any ice/wet insulation underneath, but still searching and pulling the underbelly off… lovely in the wind!
Hoping our tank heaters haven’t gone bad.
Anyone know where to locate the fresh water tank?

 

[Daryles]

Freshwater tank should be at the back.

 

[Alc13]

Finding the leak?

Definitely have a leak somewhere. Any tips on how to find one that isn’t obvious?

Tank was 3/4 full last night and this morning ran out when washing up (tank read zero). Grey and black tank aren’t more full. Pump has NOT been running except when we have a faucet open/flushing toilet. We did not find any water/ice around the fresh water tank when we opened up the bottom side the other day. We are going to take it all down again and follow it up.

When I turn the knob (fill to regular) I can hear the water swish the first time which it always has. That area is nice and toasty so nothing frozen there. Also no leak in the compartment area where the pump is.

Of course this happens when we have a winter warning and temps will be going in the negative.

 

[JDDilly]

Is the drain valve on the fresh tank leaking?

 

[Daryles]

I have a meter on my freshwater fill hose.
From empty (pump cavitation, making unusual noise) to full (water running out the vent at the back of the rig) it averages 42 gallons.
Normally I get two freshwater fills, then I have to dump (black tank is full when toilet burps when flushing).
I gave up looking at the lights except for the freshwater tank.

 

[jimcol]

Definitely have a leak somewhere. Any tips on how to find one that isn’t obvious?

Tank was 3/4 full last night and this morning ran out when washing up (tank read zero). Grey and black tank aren’t more full. Pump has NOT been running except when we have a faucet open/flushing toilet. We did not find any water/ice around the fresh water tank when we opened up the bottom side the other day. We are going to take it all down again and follow it up.

When I turn the knob (fill to regular) I can hear the water swish the first time which it always has. That area is nice and toasty so nothing frozen there. Also no leak in the compartment area where the pump is.

Of course this happens when we have a winter warning and temps will be going in the negative.

When you say ran out when washing up (tank read zero) these may be two different things. If the tank reads zero but you are still pumping water I say the sensor or read out is bad. It is hard for me to believe you can loose 40 gallons of water overnight and not see a wet spot somewhere.

 

[DutchmenSport]

Agree with above, tanks sensors are not dependable. If you leaked 40 gallons, you'd see evidence of that somewhere.

Quick test: If the sensors are reading empty, then go under the trailer and open the fresh water tank drain valve. If it truly is empty, very little will drain on the ground, if any. At least you'd know this way if the tank is truly empty or not.

OR:

Take a longer shower and see how long it runs before the on-board water pump starts sucking air.

 

[Mr Mustang]

Definitely have a leak somewhere. Any tips on how to find one that isn’t obvious?

Tank was 3/4 full last night and this morning ran out when washing up (tank read zero). Grey and black tank aren’t more full. Pump has NOT been running except when we have a faucet open/flushing toilet. We did not find any water/ice around the fresh water tank when we opened up the bottom side the other day. We are going to take it all down again and follow it up.

When I turn the knob (fill to regular) I can hear the water swish the first time which it always has. That area is nice and toasty so nothing frozen there. Also no leak in the compartment area where the pump is.

Of course this happens when we have a winter warning and temps will be going in the negative.

What did you find out?

 

[bcrvman]

Semi-newby and just our third winter. Had no issues past few winters, but in a pickle. Any advice would be appreciated!

2015 keystone Montana 4 season with tank heaters etc. Been having to fill our freshwater tank. Has been getting down to the single digits.

Just tried to refill our freshwater and it’s not letting anything into the tank. Spits it back out so to speak. Spouse misread the water level yesterday and wasn’t aware we were about empty so it did go all last night with very little water in the tank. We had to unthaw the knob that you have to switch over to fill, but all the other knobs were working fine. Had an issue the other day were it appeared the pump froze as well (once we put a heater down there the pump worked). We were getting water just fine right before we attempted to fill it today, (until it got too low) so appears that portion of pipes is fine, as well as the pump, just can’t get water into the fresh water tank.

We aren’t seeing any leaks other than the spicket where we attach the hose to the unit; from the water coming back.

Any guidance on things we should look for that may cause the tank to not fill would be appreciated.

Also, any guidance on how to prevent the water pump and switch knob (one you switch to fill the tank) from freezing? It is heated down there (the pass through compartment) so not sure why the pump is freezing. We were going to insulate the area were the knobs/water hose connector is at.

We stayed in same temps before without an issue so a bit at a loss. We do run one electric heater in the bedroom and keep temp in the camper set at 65. Going to stop using the electric heater if that may be an issue? Feedback would be appreciated! Thank you!!!

If you mean single digits F then I am surprised everything is not frozen, if as I suspect you mean C then there will still be challenges. When RV companies say 4 season they mean HOT, HOTTER, WARM, WARMISH. I don';t know about yours, but the convenience center is NOT heated at all. I cut some holes in it to allow the 1500W heater I have in the baggage compartment aimed at the back of the convenience center (I dropped the wall) to push some warm air into the place where all the knobs and valves are. We had record lows recently and the supply pipe froze then my sewer froze because I forgot to shut all the sewer valves and only open them once a day for 20 mins. I use heated water hose, and the flexzilla extensions are wrapped with industrial heat tape. The 3 cylinder water filter is under a box of plywood and 2" foam with a couple of thermostatically controlled 50W rough service bulbs to heat it to 80F.

 

[lewy64]

Last year we had a few weeks of 0 F weather here in N Texas. I live fulltime in the listed below RV. I had no problems until the power went out and used genny. Was fine for a day then outside line froze, forgot to move heated hoses to genny, DUH. Didnt notice any freezing accept the outside line. I have 2 25" heated hoses, A 2 cylinder outdoor filter with insulation in a styrofoam cooler, removed the keytv and left that hole open for heating that area was fine, put insulation in the hole in the floor of the conv center, ran fan constantly into the heater intake vents on the steps, heater was used if temp in rv went below 69, used 2 elec radiators, the electric fireplace, used the tank heaters. If i had moved the heated hoses to the genny I wouldnt have lost water.


You got to run that gas furnace or it will all freeze under there, yes I know it eats propane like crazy.


Dont know what fix you can do, sounds like the fresh tank may be frozen. The water you get may be under the frozen part , that the tank heater is keeping fluid and warm.

 

[JamesD-MOC]

I've had about every kind of cold weather issue there is. It was -9F a few nights back without windchill. -24F with. Yup, the hose from the water tank froze.

Check these in order. Easy way is to look for leaks.
1.If the hoses freeze, the ice can force them off of fittings... even if you have hose clamps on them.
2. If the pump freezes, it can ruin the innards. The check valve, the little diaphragm piece, and even the pressure sensor. If you don't find leaks, look at this.
3. It can split hoses (not likely, that stuff deals with it pretty well unless it's old).
4. It can split fittings... like to your hot water heater. It usually requires more than a cold night to do that though.

 

[Bad Moon]

Just my opinion, but the Campco heated hose is absolute junk. Expensive junk. Leaks like a sieve. So stiff you can’t store it easily. There has to be a better solution.

 

[bcrvman]

Just my opinion, but the Campco heated hose is absolute junk. Expensive junk. Leaks like a sieve. So stiff you can’t store it easily. There has to be a better solution.

There is another brand that is more flexible but so far I can't find the listing on Amazon where I thought I bought it. The Camco is expensive, very stiff, but I have never had a leak. The stiff part doesn't bother me too much, it's not like I move the RV in the cold weather, it gets hooked up in Sep and unhooked in May if I move otherwise it stays on all year.

 

[bcrvman]

I've had about every kind of cold weather issue there is. It was -9F a few nights back without windchill. -24F with. Yup, the hose from the water tank froze.

Check these in order. Easy way is to look for leaks.
1.If the hoses freeze, the ice can force them off of fittings... even if you have hose clamps on them.
2. If the pump freezes, it can ruin the innards. The check valve, the little diaphragm piece, and even the pressure sensor. If you don't find leaks, look at this.
3. It can split hoses (not likely, that stuff deals with it pretty well unless it's old).
4. It can split fittings... like to your hot water heater. It usually requires more than a cold night to do that though.

WOW, those are really cold temperatures., I live in Canada on the west coast and we had everything freeze up this winter (coldest ever) at -10C. That is +14F so I can not relate to the temps you are talking about. The underground supply lines froze up since they didn't bury them deep enough so we switched to internal tanks and they froze up even with 12V heaters on, 1500W heater blowing hot air into the belly at -10C/14F. Plan C was 4 of the 3 gal water jugs filled in the owners house.

 

[JamesD-MOC]

WOW, those are really cold temperatures., I live in Canada on the west coast and we had everything freeze up this winter (coldest ever) at -10C. That is +14F so I can not relate to the temps you are talking about. The underground supply lines froze up since they didn't bury them deep enough so we switched to internal tanks and they froze up even with 12V heaters on, 1500W heater blowing hot air into the belly at -10C/14F. Plan C was 4 of the 3 gal water jugs filled in the owners house.

That's usually blizzard temps when a front drops down from Canada.
Tank heaters don't keep the tank water line from freezing, or even tanks from getting big blocks of ice in them. They do seem to keep the tanks from breaking from the ice, and they thaw out a little quicker once it warms up again.

I keep a full 5 gallon jug or two around in the winter myself.

Things go pretty well down to around 15F degrees. You don't have to do much if it warms up during the day. But below that you just try to keep things from breaking. I keep a light on in my water works box, a heater on medium in the small area where my water hoses are (low heat doesn't work), and I don't fill up the water tank to the top.
When the ice blocks off the black tank so I can't dump... I have to switch to a portable emergency toilet for a couple weeks. That's the worst part.