Frame failure

[larrybessette]

Been busy the last couple of days. I put the electrical back together (neater than before), reattached the gas line, brake lines and fastened the lower outer panels back in place. I'm getting excited! This project is about done and has come out better than I ever expected. I am going to start on the X-factor cross member installation today.

 

[Daryles]

Fantastic job. We'll done!!
Don't forget to add insulation and close up ALL the holes in the frame. It will keep you warmer/cooler (post #4).
I put a 2x4 between the wire frame of the cross beams to support the weight of the insulation and coroplast to prevent it from sagging down. I used 2.5" screws and big fender washers through the coroplast down the center to hold it up.

 

[ChuckS]

Followed the work and nice job..

However I Would Not have zip tied the hydraulic hoses together...

Why? If one has a leak and needs replaced now you can't just easily pull out the old and pull in the new hose since they are all zip tied together

 

[rubio171]

I think the problem is also weight distribution. On my 3811, the slide on the driverside has pantry and residential refrigerator, both the washer and the dryer, coach batteries are mounted on same side In front compartment as well as hydraulic pump and resvoir. That puts a lot of load on the one side. I moved my batteries to the other side and try to load my heavier stuff on that side as well to try to even out the weight a bit….not very well thought out by designers.

 

[larrybessette]

Weight distribution is definitely part of the problem but judging by the outrigger failures on the right side I have concluded that the frame was inadequate for the purpose. The extra weight on the left side just caused it to fail first.

 

[larrybessette]

Today details. caulking and foaming to help w cold and prevent furry visitors.

 

[larrybessette]

Went on our first trip since repairs were made. so far so good. will lower the underbelly to look and see.

 

[Speck56]

The last time I wrote about this was November.
DW and I went on a 3 month trip out to Utah starting in late August and ending early November.
Outbound I noticed the camper (2019 Montana high Country 330RL) listing to the left. Upon inspection I discovered a bent left side frame rail. Additionally I discovered that the welds that attach the joists between the frame rails had failed and the welds attaching the brackets on the outside of the left frame rail had failed. The failure of these welds are what is causing the left side to drop. As we continued our journey the condition worsened until the exterior wall on the left was making contact with the tires. At that point I jury rigged some repairs so we could continue the trip. We were in Utah and beginning the return leg of the trip so there was really no advantage to shortening the trip.
We are home and I finally have time to begin repairs.
I have begun looking at the situation and things are worse than I expected. I dropped the underbelly and as expected some of the joists have broken free. Additionally the right frame rail is bent and the frame supporting one of the holding tanks has broken welds and is bent.
My plan is to level the frame front to back and left to right. Then I am going to install 4" square steel tube to the inside of the frame rails, straighten the rails and weld the tubing in place. Then I will weld plates onto the end of the joists to correct the damage and restore them to the correct length and weld them in place. Then I will raise the left side and weld new brackets in place so that the exterior wall is in the correct position. But there is a problem. My plan was to use the right side frame rail as a reference and match the left side to it so that the frame rails would be parallel. Now, with the right frame rail bent I have lost that reference point. Leveling the frame I have discovered that there is a 2-1/2"downward deflection in the right rail. I don't know how much deflection, if any there should be. I realize that I could do considerable damage attempting to straighten the rails beyond what the manufacturer planned.
As always any comments, ideas or information will be appreciated.

Larry
View attachment 1086292
Bent left side frame rail

View attachment 1086293
Broken and bent joist

The last time I wrote about this was November.
DW and I went on a 3 month trip out to Utah starting in late August and ending early November.
Outbound I noticed the camper (2019 Montana high Country 330RL) listing to the left. Upon inspection I discovered a bent left side frame rail. Additionally I discovered that the welds that attach the joists between the frame rails had failed and the welds attaching the brackets on the outside of the left frame rail had failed. The failure of these welds are what is causing the left side to drop. As we continued our journey the condition worsened until the exterior wall on the left was making contact with the tires. At that point I jury rigged some repairs so we could continue the trip. We were in Utah and beginning the return leg of the trip so there was really no advantage to shortening the trip.
We are home and I finally have time to begin repairs.
I have begun looking at the situation and things are worse than I expected. I dropped the underbelly and as expected some of the joists have broken free. Additionally the right frame rail is bent and the frame supporting one of the holding tanks has broken welds and is bent.
My plan is to level the frame front to back and left to right. Then I am going to install 4" square steel tube to the inside of the frame rails, straighten the rails and weld the tubing in place. Then I will weld plates onto the end of the joists to correct the damage and restore them to the correct length and weld them in place. Then I will raise the left side and weld new brackets in place so that the exterior wall is in the correct position. But there is a problem. My plan was to use the right side frame rail as a reference and match the left side to it so that the frame rails would be parallel. Now, with the right frame rail bent I have lost that reference point. Leveling the frame I have discovered that there is a 2-1/2"downward deflection in the right rail. I don't know how much deflection, if any there should be. I realize that I could do considerable damage attempting to straighten the rails beyond what the manufacturer planned.
As always any comments, ideas or information will be appreciated.

Larry
View attachment 1086292
Bent left side frame rail

View attachment 1086293
Broken and bent joist

 

[Speck56]

The last time I wrote about this was November.
DW and I went on a 3 month trip out to Utah starting in late August and ending early November.
Outbound I noticed the camper (2019 Montana high Country 330RL) listing to the left. Upon inspection I discovered a bent left side frame rail. Additionally I discovered that the welds that attach the joists between the frame rails had failed and the welds attaching the brackets on the outside of the left frame rail had failed. The failure of these welds are what is causing the left side to drop. As we continued our journey the condition worsened until the exterior wall on the left was making contact with the tires. At that point I jury rigged some repairs so we could continue the trip. We were in Utah and beginning the return leg of the trip so there was really no advantage to shortening the trip.
We are home and I finally have time to begin repairs.
I have begun looking at the situation and things are worse than I expected. I dropped the underbelly and as expected some of the joists have broken free. Additionally the right frame rail is bent and the frame supporting one of the holding tanks has broken welds and is bent.
My plan is to level the frame front to back and left to right. Then I am going to install 4" square steel tube to the inside of the frame rails, straighten the rails and weld the tubing in place. Then I will weld plates onto the end of the joists to correct the damage and restore them to the correct length and weld them in place. Then I will raise the left side and weld new brackets in place so that the exterior wall is in the correct position. But there is a problem. My plan was to use the right side frame rail as a reference and match the left side to it so that the frame rails would be parallel. Now, with the right frame rail bent I have lost that reference point. Leveling the frame I have discovered that there is a 2-1/2"downward deflection in the right rail. I don't know how much deflection, if any there should be. I realize that I could do considerable damage attempting to straighten the rails beyond what the manufacturer planned.
As always any comments, ideas or information will be appreciated.

Larry
View attachment 1086292
Bent left side frame rail

View attachment 1086293
Broken and bent joist

2020 3761FL. In 2022 Front part of the frame came apart and slides would not retract. Took it to a RV repair shop in Glendale AZ, near home. Keystone covered under warranty but the fix was inadequate according to the standards my shop wanted. 10 months of going back and forth with Keystone, they agreed on a fix and price. He wanted to reinforce all the poor welds and did alot more than he was paid for, but he had had enough. Last year while traveling to Niagra Falls I noticed a leaf spring coming apart. Replaced it myself in Cleveland. Everything looked normal. On the way home I noticed the underbelly sagging. Opened that up and found both cross supports broken off. Called Keystone even though I was out of warranty. They sent me to a Camping World in Springfield Ill. Had to drop it off and head back to AZ. 3 days later Keystone calls and says out of warranty. Why ask to get involved when they could have told me that in the first place. 8 months later, winter got involved, CW says its ready. 18,000, and thank God, my insurance handled it. Drove to Kentucky and then home. However on the way thru Missouri I noticed a listing to the left. Crawled underneath and found the left frame rail bent, axles shifted 4 inches sideways and the hangers were bent. 600 miles after pickup. Lucky to be 9 miles from a Camping World in Columbia Missouri. They have come up with a 9,000 dollar fix. Insurance is sending a appraiser out to see if its poor repair from Springfield or something new. My issue is with the poor welds, or lack of welds. Cross supports are all tac welded. I am adding a Moryde drop down bolt on support and am going to beg them to reinforce welds. Needless to say we had to Hotel it home after unloading all the food, clothes, etc. AGAIN. We love the unit, hate whats going on underneath. Why the industry does'nt have better quality control is beyond me. Why no class action suits against Lippert?? Our summer of travelling to get out of the heat is getting shorter. So far, even though I have not had to pay directly, it's been over 45,000 to repair and it's still not right. The pictures you posted are exactly what our rig looks like. Steve Speckman. Speck56
2020 GMC Denali Dually 3500 Diesel

 

[larrybessette]

Putting it back together is just doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result..
The frame is poorly designed and poorly executed, hence my modifications.
Lippert is never going to step up and admit their failure. Heck they can't even fix my leveling system.