Frame failure

[larrybessette]

The last time I wrote about this was November.
DW and I went on a 3 month trip out to Utah starting in late August and ending early November.
Outbound I noticed the camper (2019 Montana high Country 330RL) listing to the left. Upon inspection I discovered a bent left side frame rail. Additionally I discovered that the welds that attach the joists between the frame rails had failed and the welds attaching the brackets on the outside of the left frame rail had failed. The failure of these welds are what is causing the left side to drop. As we continued our journey the condition worsened until the exterior wall on the left was making contact with the tires. At that point I jury rigged some repairs so we could continue the trip. We were in Utah and beginning the return leg of the trip so there was really no advantage to shortening the trip.
We are home and I finally have time to begin repairs.
I have begun looking at the situation and things are worse than I expected. I dropped the underbelly and as expected some of the joists have broken free. Additionally the right frame rail is bent and the frame supporting one of the holding tanks has broken welds and is bent.
My plan is to level the frame front to back and left to right. Then I am going to install 4" square steel tube to the inside of the frame rails, straighten the rails and weld the tubing in place. Then I will weld plates onto the end of the joists to correct the damage and restore them to the correct length and weld them in place. Then I will raise the left side and weld new brackets in place so that the exterior wall is in the correct position. But there is a problem. My plan was to use the right side frame rail as a reference and match the left side to it so that the frame rails would be parallel. Now, with the right frame rail bent I have lost that reference point. Leveling the frame I have discovered that there is a 2-1/2"downward deflection in the right rail. I don't know how much deflection, if any there should be. I realize that I could do considerable damage attempting to straighten the rails beyond what the manufacturer planned.
As always any comments, ideas or information will be appreciated.

Larry

Bent left side frame rail


Broken and bent joist

 

[mlh]

Love your attitude. If you think you can you can.
If you try.
Lynwood

 

[LeftOverParts]

I remember your posts during the summer.

Way more smarter people than me on here so just a number of thoughts:

Re bent beams and deflection, we're back from a trip and have the trailer for about another hour so took a 4ft and 6ft level and placed them on the front and back I-beams as best I could where bolts, springs, jacks would not interfere. It's sitting on the wheels and landing gear but everywhere I could fit one or the other level on the I-beam web or leg is straight such that I couldn't detect any visual gaps or rock the levels to find bow.

Haven't tried auto level but if the wheels start hanging, thinking there might be a little, 1/8"? 1/4"? deflection.

I'm not a frame guy but imo you'd have to add square and alignment of suspension as other variables to control. (Maybe square and level will take care of axle alignment across and up/down???)

It's a little hard to follow your description. It would be helpful if you made a sketch that showed where the deflection is and in what direction. Folks that have the same model might be able to give you key dimensions.

Might be tricky tilting/angling 4" tubes between the rails (unless the I-beams are spread apart or you have a connectors or a splice somewhere).

Sounds like a big job and you might have to consider getting it to Affinity or similar shop. A weld shop that specializes in building custom trailers might be able to help.

 

[Daryles]

Last October I dropped the coroplast and worked on my "bottom" projects. After removing the coroplast, I discovered four of the between i beam frame cross supports (forward and aft of the axles) had broken lower welds (upper welds were good). Picture 2.
There are four 3" cross box frames between the frame I beams that the hydraulic slides rails go through. The welds on these were also good.
I called the local mobile welder I had scheduled for installing Lippert leaf spring hanger Angle irons and told him what I found. He said he would check it out when he got there.
I used a wire brush wheel and cleaned the area so it would be ready for him to weld if he could.
When he arrived he inspected the broken welds and said no problem. He could take care of it.
He bent the cross beam supports back into position and ran a weld bead all the way around the ENTIRE L bracket to the Frame. Previously it was only tack welded or welded on one edge.
Then he installed the Lippert hanger supports.
LCI leaf spring hanger support angle.
https://www.lippert.com/ang-3313-x-3313-x-179-l1813-103727
These angle supports are now included on all Lippert frames 2022 and newer.
Picture 1.
I was really lucky. I STRONGLY recommend everyone cut the coroplast and inspect the cross beam supports above the leaf spring hangers.

Back to OPs frame issue...

IF you have hydraulic slides, there a good chance the four 3" box frame that the slide rails run through welded between the I beams are good.
If so, that area the frame should be square and maybe you can use it as a base line for the rest.
Maybe contact Lippert for the frame specs/measurements?

Other bottom projects:
Use Gorilla tape to seal up ALL holes (air gaps) in the frame. Keep drafts out. Keeps your rig warmer/cooler). Installed insulation around the entire perimeter of the frame and across the bottom. Sealed up holes in the J channel where the jacks go through (again stop drafts, and mice).

SmartSHIELD -20mm 48" X25ft Reflective Insulation Roll, Foam Core Radiant Barrier, Thermal Foil Insulation Panel - 0.8 Inch Thickness, R-23 https://a.co/d/8LJM0h5

Before putting the bottom up, I put a 7' 2x4 down the middle between the cross beam supports so I coukd anchor the coroplast to it to support the middle of the coroplast from sagging down. I used 2.5" screws and 2" fender washers to hold up the middle of the coroplast.
I used #14 x 1" self drilling bolts to put the coroplast back up. I used the same holes the nails came out.

 

[brycesteiner]

But there is a problem. My plan was to use the right side frame rail as a reference and match the left side to it so that the frame rails would be parallel. Now, with the right frame rail bent I have lost that reference point. Leveling the frame I have discovered that there is a 2-1/2"downward deflection in the right rail. I don't know how much deflection, if any there should be. I realize that I could do considerable damage attempting to straighten the rails beyond what the manufacturer planned.

Not sure if this would be helpful or not, but could you use a laser level under the RV to get reference points on all sides to get it to where both sides in alignment?

Honestly, Lippert should be the one fixing this mess they created.

 

[sstedman]

We had a 2021 331RL and had a similar problem. We had new springs installed and the rv tech company that did the install never torqued down the u bolts to the manufacturer’s specs. While driving on I30 this past October I noticed that the left axel was extended beyond the outer wall of our rig. The axel caused the frame to bend. I was told by a rv tech that he has seen damage like this before. He believes the cause is frame failure due to the welds braking on the cross members. I contacted my insurance carrier and filed a claim. As it turned out, our insurance company totaled out our rig and subjugated the insurance claim to Keystone and Lippert. We are now in a 2024 330RL. The 2 main slides are now rack and pinion. I personally think that Keystone and Lippert realized that the 2 main slides did not have enough support which caused the cross members welds to brake. Hence, the rack and pinion gears on ours.

 

[BSHGTO]

it`ll work

Put 3 X Factors on it will keep the frame together and help keep those crossmembers from breaking loose.. Lipperts fix only helps the spring brackets. my 2 cents.

 

[larrybessette]

Where did you get the X factors?

 

[larrybessette]

I have contacted Lippert. They responded with a request for more information, I just sent everything they asked for to them.

My wife wants me to turn this over to the insurance company. Maybe I should....

 

[MandK]

Where did you get the X factors?

They are manufactured by MorRyde and can be purchased from them, Etrailer, amazon etc.

 

[BSHGTO]

They are manufactured by MorRyde and can be purchased from them, Etrailer, amazon etc.

By the time you buy the brackets from Lippert and pay a welder to install them you could buy 3 XFactors. With a couple of wrenches and an hour, put them on yourself. They do so much more than just strengthen your spring hangers.

 

[larrybessette]

I intend to get some X factors but my hangers are bent and will have to be straightened and reinforced before I do that.

 

[larrybessette]

frame failure

Any body know where I can get new cross members?

 

[Mikendebbie]

Larry - by “cross members” - do you mean the “floor joists” welded east-west to the north-south main beams? I doubt you could even get new joists from Lippert…just my guess though. Perhaps a dealership or maybe Affinity could get new joists if they were doing the repair. I assume most repairs/welding are done to patch or improve/reinforce the existing joists in place.

If your reference to cross members means X-factor braces, refer to post #10 above.

Based on photos i have seen - it would be difficult to install a new joist from below due to the spaghetti nest of wire and pipe run through the webs of the joists. Fixing/improving existing joist might be easier. Forum member Darryls has done it so he would know better than me.

 

[Daryles]

New cross members...
A welder could manufacture them.
Or check with Lippert. They make the frame.

Download the Lippert NOW app from Google play store. Lots of good info, manuals, TSB, troubleshooting etc.
Lippert also has excellent help desk support.
Phone: 574-537-8900
Email: customerservice@Lci1.com

 

[R.S.O'Donnell]

I have contacted Lippert. They responded with a request for more information, I just sent everything they asked for to them.

My wife wants me to turn this over to the insurance company. Maybe I should....

That's the route I would take. I don't think you can ever make this right again.

 

[NCRVR]

Affiinity RV Frame Failure Repair

We had the ill-fated frame failure in our 2021 3121RL Montana. First noticed creaking and groaning noises every time we hooked and unhooked. Then the outer side wall started to crack at the bedroom slide. The Schwintek slide out started making noises at the end of the opening travel. Next came the inside bedroom wall cracked at the corner of the slide opening all the way back to the closet. We contacted Keystone and they told us to take to the local Camping World. Contacted CW and they told us it would be 10 months before they could look at our unit. This would have put us beyond our warranty period.
We contacted Affinity RV Group in Goshen, IN. I first spoke with Squeak Spencer. Squeak scheduled us into their shop and worked with Keystone on the warranty. Met Rob and Squeak when we arrived. Rob shook my hand and promised they would fix our RV. Joe Spencer, shop foreman, handled our repairs. Squeak handled all the business side of the warranty and Tammy managed coordination of all repair work. They made the repairs in one week. Replacing the outer and inside wall. Completely repairing welds and adding supports to the wall framing. The cracked front cap was repaired and re-painted. Their work was excellent. Our unit is better than the day it was delivered new. I have never worked with a team that cares so much for the customer. I also had them repair several other non-warranty items. Their pricing was more than fair with the same excellent workmanship as the wall and frame repair.
If you have any repairs, you should contact Affinity. We pulled our unit from NC to IN and it was worth every mile.

 

[larrybessette]

Made an insurance claim today. Will keep you all posted.
thanks for everything.

 

[larrybessette]

Frame Failure

Ok. It looks like the insurance company is going to total the camper. Here's my question; do I treat this as a one off event and look for another 330RL or is this to be treated as a systemic problem with all of these units. The problem is there are a lot of brands that use Lippert chassis.

 

[brycesteiner]

something you can inspect before you sign?