Cheap lithium batteries

[twindman]

I see Walmart has 100 AH lithium battery for $163 and has BMS. Are these any good?

 

[foldbak]

I have no experence with this battery but I don't like not having access to the BMS via display or bluetooth.

 

[Daryles]

Have a look on Will Prowse YouTube channel. He takes apart lithium batteries and reviews them from the inside.

 

[twindman]

Thanks

 

[mlh]

For $163 I’d haft to try one. If it no good throw it away and get another one.
Lynwood

 

[firestation12]

I see Walmart has 100 AH lithium battery for $163 and has BMS. Are these any good?

Or another question to ask might me, is it any worse than the lead acid I’ve been using? Might be worth a try. Buy 2 and keep the receipt.

 

[c2itcliff]

We have a generator. After boondocking near arches national Park we returned to a dead battery. When the generator wouldn't start I realized the importance of having a dedicated starting battery. So, I just installed a NOCO lifePO4 7ah battery that claims 600A capacity. It's very small but it starts my generator no problem. Most lifePO4 batteries can't be used as a starting battery. So this is unique. Check it out on Amazon:

NOCO Lithium NLP20, Group 20, 600A Lithium LiFePO4 Motorcycle Battery, 12V 7Ah ATV, UTV, Jet Ski, 4 Wheeler, Quad, Riding Lawn Mower, Tractor, Scooter, PWC, Seadoo, Polaris and Generator Battery https://a.co/d/32UAzxd

I also replaced the 2FLA batteries with a single 12V 300ah lifePO4 battery.

12V 300Ah LiFePO4 Lithium Battery Built-in 250A BMS Rechargeable Mini LiFePO4 Battery Up to 10000 Cycle Lithium Battery, 10-Year Lifespan, Perfect for RV, Solar, Marine, Home Energy Storage https://a.co/d/0zUHJDB

 

[Hblick48]

We have a generator. After boondocking near arches national Park we returned to a dead battery. When the generator wouldn't start I realized the importance of having a dedicated starting battery. So, I just installed a NOCO lifePO4 7ah battery that claims 600A capacity. It's very small but it starts my generator no problem. Most lifePO4 batteries can't be used as a starting battery. So this is unique. Check it out on Amazon:

NOCO Lithium NLP20, Group 20, 600A Lithium LiFePO4 Motorcycle Battery, 12V 7Ah ATV, UTV, Jet Ski, 4 Wheeler, Quad, Riding Lawn Mower, Tractor, Scooter, PWC, Seadoo, Polaris and Generator Battery https://a.co/d/32UAzxd

I also replaced the 2FLA batteries with a single 12V 300ah lifePO4 battery.

12V 300Ah LiFePO4 Lithium Battery Built-in 250A BMS Rechargeable Mini LiFePO4 Battery Up to 10000 Cycle Lithium Battery, 10-Year Lifespan, Perfect for RV, Solar, Marine, Home Energy Storage https://a.co/d/0zUHJDB

I installed s setup similar to yours. How are you charging the generator starting battery? My Onan 4000 Microquiet does not have the ability to charge the battery.

I installed an Xanrtrx Echo Charger that charges the small battery from the large one.

 

[c2itcliff]

I'm using a dedicated lifePO4 Ac charger plugged into our 1000W inverter (used for fridge). The house lifePO4 battery, is charged by the ASA electronics InCommand charge controller. However, I don't seem to have an Li switch. The best I can do is place the charger into Boost mode (14.4v). This is a manual mode. Does anyone have a solution? Can I just add another dedicated charger and disconnect the original house charger? Don't really want to do that as I then loose the generator auto start function triggered by voltage.

 

[Creeker]

What your doing with the boost is perfectly fine. You can certainly add an additional converter charger. I mounted a second deck mount lithium rated converter charger in the front storage near the batteries. I left the original in place so we can use both to quickly charge our 690 amp hrs of batteries. With the original in boost mode and the additional converter charger I often see 100+ amps going back into the batteries.

 

[c2itcliff]

Thanks. I'll give it a try

 

[Carl n Susan]

.....I mounted a second deck mount lithium rated converter charger in the front storage near the batteries. I left the original in place......

What lithium converter did you get?

 

[foldbak]

Seams over complicated to me. I have two 100 AH lithium's and don't need a gen start battery. When boon docking, I simply monitor the SOC. If below 60% I start the gen and recharge. **** the batteries could be 10% and still start the gen, their lithium. Never go be low 12 volts until the BMS shuts them off at low SOC. Gen is an Onan 4000 LPG. Am I missing something?

 

[c2itcliff]

Your LifePO4 house battery probably shouldn't be used to start your onan generator. Check the specs to verify this is the case. It usually is related to the BMS. That's great that the LifePO4 will shut down at 10% SOC. But, that means no power to an inverter to maintain the fridge. The on board ASA InCommand can be used to auto start the generator to charge the house batteries when the SOC drops to a predetermined level sufficient to start the generator. In my case, I wanted to be sure I had enough cranking capacity to handle two to three no start cycles (this sometimes happens when the LPG isn't primed. The InCommand system will, after three attempts, fail to start and will not try again. My 7ah starting battery is designed specifically for that purpose with just enough capacity for the three attempts. Should all that fail...the starting battery is recharged by the house batteries through the inverter. I don't have solar installed yet. I'm getting there though. Considering an inexpensive hybrid inverter/charger. I just have to confirm that it can stay cool enough to prevent damage to electronics. Most of the inverter/chargers I'm considering haven't been applied to fifth wheel camper in cramped spaces.

 

[foldbak]

Not sure your heard this.

Can lithium be used as a starter battery?
A lithium cranking battery is a high-energy-density battery designed to deliver a large burst of current for a short duration, typically used for starting engines in vehicles and machinery.Oct 1, 2024
My ONAN is LPG and starts every time within 3 seconds of cranking. Once the system is pressurized it stays pressurized. No priming needed.

Combined with solar, I never worry as long as I monitor SOC. Early on I made the mistake on a cloudy day running two TV's as well as other equipment and allowed the SOC to reach 20%. Hit the gen start and recharged.


Edit:
Now you got me going down the rabbit hole. Found this relating to my lithium's.

Why Aren't Lithium Batteries Good for Starting?

The issue isn't necessarily with the power output of the batteries. Lithium batteries provide ample power for most starting situations. The problem lies in how the battery is used in starting situations, how the battery is charged and the working environment.
Starting

When you hop in the car and turn the key, the starting battery needs to release a very large amount of current to get the starter motor spinning to crank the engine. This extremely large amount of current, even if it only lasts for a second or two, will activate the battery management system (BMS) in the lithium iron phosphate battery, rendering the battery useless requiring a replacement battery to be installed.


I suspect that the cranking current required to to start my ONAN is within the battery output capability. At the end of the day buying a new Rig that comes with lithium and a built in gen don't have a separate starter battery.

 

[c2itcliff]

The BMS plays a big role. Some newer LifePO4 batteries are rated as "starting" batteries.

"the NOCO Lithium NLP20 12V Lithium Powersports Battery, a Group 20 battery, rated at 7Ah (89Wh) and 600-amps of starting power. It's better than lead-acid motorcycle batteries in almost every way: no sulfation, no activation, no acid, no maintenance, no water needed, and it comes fully charged and ready to install. It's designed to withstand 50,000 start cycles and 2,000 charge cycles, making it the highest performing and longest-lasting battery for any...generator".

Amazon link:
NOCO Lithium battery
https://a.co/d/bV9MH7r

Your regular starting battery has a cold cranking amp (CCA) rating. Make sure the battery management system (BMS) on your LifePO4 battery exceeds the CCA rating by 10%. Most LifePO4 100ah batteries only have a 100a BMS.

 

[Creeker]

What lithium converter did you get?

Progressive Dynamics PD9160AL Its a two stage charger designed for lithium batteries. 14.4V when charging and 13.6 when idle. It also works with the remote pendant so you can overide which stage its in.

 

[c2itcliff]

I have: PD4575K18LS8
I don't see an Li switch. Only instructions for manually putting it into "Boost" mode 14.4v which is for AGM batteries. Although, LifePO4 requires 14.6, I've been told 14.4 is okay.

 

[c2itcliff]

I found this information on eTrailers website.
" the Progressive Dynamics 4500 Series Inteli-Power Converter w/ Charge Wizard and AC/DC Panel part # PD4575K18LS8 will work to charge your lithium ion LiFePO4 deep cycle batteries. There is a switch on the board for this purpose. I confirmed this with my contact at Progressive Dynamics as well."
Now I have to find that switch?

 

[foldbak]

I found this information on eTrailers website.
" the Progressive Dynamics 4500 Series Inteli-Power Converter w/ Charge Wizard and AC/DC Panel part # PD4575K18LS8 will work to charge your lithium ion LiFePO4 deep cycle batteries. There is a switch on the board for this purpose. I confirmed this with my contact at Progressive Dynamics as well."
Now I have to find that switch?

Here ya go.