Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > GENERAL DISCUSSIONS > General Discussions about our Montanas
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-28-2021, 12:50 PM   #1
MAWilsonPE
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Weddington
Posts: 143
M.O.C. #26813
Heat Pump and A/C Load Shed do not work

So my rear A/C unit is clearly labeled as a heat pump. When I select "heat" on the iN-Command system it blows cold air. I finally got time to open up the A/C unit and open the plenum to get access to the control box. My HVAC units are comprised of three components: the roof top unit itself, a zone control box and a gateway. The gateway is there to allow communication with the iN-Command system.

I found that the control box is a "cooling only" controller That's right, a cooling only controller on a heat pump... what gives? Must have been a mistake, right?

Also, I have the PCS, power control system, which is more-or-less a smart breaker system which will shed loads by priority if the power draw is too high. I have found that the A/C compressors do not shed when the system shows them as shed.

Again, the rear unit controller does not have the "shed" terminals required to allow this to work. (I still need to check the front one) The wires required for this are connected at the PCS system, they must have left them loose at the HVAC unit (now I need to look for those).

It would seem, in my humble opinion, that Keystone installed the wrong controller.

I tried to call Keystone Customer Service, what a joke! They were not helpful at all! They could not tell me where the controller was located (had to find it myself, hidden in the air plenum), nor could they tell me the controller that is supposed to be installed for my unit with a heat pump. (I had to find that part number on my own) They could not even tell me if they had the right controller available in stock.

I called the dealer I bought it from and they said they may have run out of the heat pump controllers, or they may not have intended for the heat pump to work with my setup. This makes no sense, why install a heat pump and then not the proper controller?

Looks like I will have to take it to a local dealer and hope they know what they are doing. I have already done the diagnosis. I cannot find the correct controller in stock anywhere so I will probably have to take it there a second time while I wait for the right part to come in.

I am so frustrated with Keystone. Customer service is just a referral service to their dealers. !!NO HELP AT ALL!!

Sorry, just venting... Mike
 
__________________
Mike & Doreen
2021 Montana 3120RL Legacy - Sterling - Super Solar
2020 Chevy 2500HD High Country
MAWilsonPE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2021, 03:48 AM   #2
RMcNeal
Montana Master
 
RMcNeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 2,117
M.O.C. #25165
Mike, our units are Dometic. I have had good luck dealing with Dometic, even though they haven't fixed the problem with the CT thermostats, they have been very willing to help.
I have heard the newer units have Coleman AC's. You might give the manufacturer a call. They would likely be more helpful with your problem.
__________________
Robert & Diana McNeal
2019 Montana Legacy 3791RD 20th Anniversary Edition
2014 F350 4x4 6.7L SRW
RMcNeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2021, 06:50 AM   #3
MAWilsonPE
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Weddington
Posts: 143
M.O.C. #26813
Whew! I have cooled off a bit today...

Thanks Robert! Yes, my units are AirXcel/Coleman Mach. I have called them and they let me know that Keystone installed the wrong controllers for my application and gave me the part number for the correct one. Now the challenge will be to find them and get Keystone to cover them under warranty (which probably means taking it to a dealer, ugh).

Let me say that I did reach out to my contact at Key Connect whom I spoke with when considering this unit a while back. He is very helpful and is attempting to get me in contact with the Keystone warranty/service department directly. Let's see if they respond...

Also, Matt at Future Sales is extremely helpful and, although this is really not part of his solar package, is trying to help me out as well.

There are some good ones out there, just not at Keystone's Customer Service dept.

Best Regards, Mike
__________________
Mike & Doreen
2021 Montana 3120RL Legacy - Sterling - Super Solar
2020 Chevy 2500HD High Country
MAWilsonPE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2021, 07:45 AM   #4
RipNC
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Aurora
Posts: 429
M.O.C. #26926
Mike,

I replaced mine myself and repaired a wire to the gateway also had to replace the OD Temp relay. All pretty simple stuff to do. Be sure to check the OD Temp relay as that could be an issue too. If you PM me I can email you some photos that m8ght help you check that relay (maybe same guy wired yours at the factory).
__________________
Rip & Beth
2021 3121RL Legacy Cobalt FBP, MORryde IS & pin box
2020 F350 PSD CCLB SRW
RipNC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2021, 08:54 AM   #5
firestation12
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Mesa
Posts: 277
M.O.C. #24588
If you will post the part number you are looking for, I may have 2 new ones I purchased last year that are correct for your situation. They are the updated Dometic parts that fixed the 100 degree cut off problem. After purchasing them, I discovered I already had the upgraded controllers in my 2019 Alpine. The controllers were purchased direct from Dometic.

JMAC
firestation12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2021, 09:28 AM   #6
MAWilsonPE
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Weddington
Posts: 143
M.O.C. #26813
Thanks JMAC,

The controller I need is the AirXcel 9630-755, heat pump capable, iN-Command compatible, with load shed terminals. This can be used on both my heat pump and front A/C as they do not make a controller that is "Cooling Only", iN-Command compatible, with load shed terminals for the front.

Keystone installed the AirXcel 9430-752 in both units. How did I find out this is not the right one? Not on the AirXcel website, their manuals there are quite old and did not include this one... I found one for sale on ebay and the box it came in says "Cool Only" on the outside. I subsequently confirmed this with AirXcel, "not for use with a heat pump".

What I find particularly funny is that someone at Keystone wrote on this controller in black magic marker "HP". Wrong!!

Thanks, Mike
__________________
Mike & Doreen
2021 Montana 3120RL Legacy - Sterling - Super Solar
2020 Chevy 2500HD High Country
MAWilsonPE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2021, 12:12 PM   #7
firestation12
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Mesa
Posts: 277
M.O.C. #24588
So I checked the boxes and they are gateways
CCRV-C SKU 3316945.021
May not be what you are looking for, But It is compatible with my in Command system. Good luck!
firestation12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2021, 01:16 PM   #8
MAWilsonPE
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Weddington
Posts: 143
M.O.C. #26813
Thanks for the offer but I need to get the AirXcel/Coleman controllers. Just found out that AirXcel has them in stock so my dealer can order them.

I really appreciate the support from this forum!! You folks are the best!!

Mike
__________________
Mike & Doreen
2021 Montana 3120RL Legacy - Sterling - Super Solar
2020 Chevy 2500HD High Country
MAWilsonPE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2021, 06:57 AM   #9
MAWilsonPE
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Weddington
Posts: 143
M.O.C. #26813
OK, so I found out that with the Super Solar option the controller for the rear heat pump should be the 9630-756, heat pump capable, iN-Command compatible but does not have the shed terminals. Keystone (should be) interrupting the blue wire from the gateway (compressor control signal) for shed control, only they did not wire it properly.

Matt at Future Sales sent me one of these controllers that I will test this coming weekend. Thanks Matt!!

The front A/C came with the 9430-752, cooling only, iN-Command compatible, with no shed terminals. Again the shed control will work if tied to the blue compressor control wire (which Keystone did not wire correctly).

It sound like Keystone sent several of SSF units out with the wrong heat pump controller and shed control not wired correctly.

Best, Mike
__________________
Mike & Doreen
2021 Montana 3120RL Legacy - Sterling - Super Solar
2020 Chevy 2500HD High Country
MAWilsonPE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2021, 06:35 PM   #10
M&M
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Gulfport
Posts: 105
M.O.C. #27628
Where is the controller located so I can check the part #. I tested load shed and front AC, and it worked. I'll plan to do another test to see if the heat pump will drop.
__________________
2021 Montana 3231CK, Legacy, Super Solar Flex, Dual Pane Windows, Slide-out Awnings
2021 Dodge RAM 3500 4x4 Limited 6.7 HO DRW, Trailer TPMS, B&W Companion Hitch
M&M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2021, 10:08 PM   #11
rames14
Montana Master
 
rames14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Livermore
Posts: 5,135
M.O.C. #1920
Mike, how did you test the shedding? I will double check my heat pump tomorrow.
__________________
Ron and Terrie Ames - MOC #1920/KF0NTA
2021Montana 3230CK Super Solar Legacy Package
2021 Ram 3500 Laramie Longhorn, BIM Charging
4x4, SRW, LB, Crew Cab, Pullrite 3900 Hitch
rames14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2021, 07:27 AM   #12
firestation12
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Mesa
Posts: 277
M.O.C. #24588
What is this?

I’m seeing a term that is unfamiliar. Can someone explain what load shed is?
firestation12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2021, 10:11 AM   #13
MAWilsonPE
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Weddington
Posts: 143
M.O.C. #26813
The Super Solar package includes a Precision Circuits Power Control System (PCS) which will shed (turn off) loads if there are too many amps being drawn from shore power or inverter system. This is essentially a "smart breaker" system that will shed AC loads only. For instance, if you are plugged into your garage with a 15amp breaker you can tell the system not to exceed 15 amps from shore power. If you run an air conditioner and then turn on the microwave the PCS will shed the compressor to keep the amps below 15. This prevents you from popping the breaker in your garage. When the microwave shuts off and the amps drop, it will turn the compressor back on.

The PCS, in conjunction with the Magnum inverter, can also provide additional power from the batteries to make up any difference in the shore power 15 amps and the actual load, again preventing you from popping the breaker in the garage. Loads are shed in priority: water heater first, then middle air conditioner (compressor only), vacuum cleaner, front air conditioner (compressor only), fireplace, rear air conditioner (compressor only) and lastly the microwave. All other AC loads (GFCI outlets, recliners, TV) will never be shed.

To test whether your load shedding feature is working properly I use only inverter/battery power so I can see the amps being drawn more easily. The air conditioner fan pulls about 20-23 amps and the compressor pulls another 80 amps for 100 amps total (these are DC amps).

Edited: see Shed Testing below

I plan to fix the wiring on my unit this weekend and I can provide more information on how to properly connect that blue wire after I get mine working.

I hope this helps!

Best Regards, Mike
__________________
Mike & Doreen
2021 Montana 3120RL Legacy - Sterling - Super Solar
2020 Chevy 2500HD High Country
MAWilsonPE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2021, 10:29 AM   #14
rames14
Montana Master
 
rames14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Livermore
Posts: 5,135
M.O.C. #1920
Thanks, Mike. I will probably test it after it warms up a bit. Still getting snow.
__________________
Ron and Terrie Ames - MOC #1920/KF0NTA
2021Montana 3230CK Super Solar Legacy Package
2021 Ram 3500 Laramie Longhorn, BIM Charging
4x4, SRW, LB, Crew Cab, Pullrite 3900 Hitch
rames14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2021, 03:51 PM   #15
MAWilsonPE
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Weddington
Posts: 143
M.O.C. #26813
A/C Load Shed Testing

Sorry I had to delete my test method above, the PCS system does not have a power button, so I just tested again and paid closer attention to my sequence... (I’m still learning!)

To test the A/C Shed Control:

Disconnect from shore power.
Power off the 12v switch to reset all the controllers.
Power on the 12v and wait for iN-Command panel to power up.
Turn on the A/C, set to cool, and be sure set temp in less than room temp.
At this point the PCS should show “No Power”.
Turn on the inverter.
My PCS first shows “30amp Service” and then switches to “25amp Generator”.
The A/C starts immediately when the inverter is turned on.
I see 100amps (DC) right away on the inverter indicating both the fan and compressor are running.
The PCS sheds all loads immediately when inverter is turned on and brings them back on after 2 minutes.

So, on my unit, I can see the compressor is running (100amps) while all loads are showing as shed.

If the compressor does not shut off (amps should drop from 100 to 20) when the air conditioner load shows as shed, then the blue wire between the controller and gateway in the air plenum inside the unit on the roof is not wired correctly.

Your system may behave differently, let me know what you find.

Thanks, Mike
__________________
Mike & Doreen
2021 Montana 3120RL Legacy - Sterling - Super Solar
2020 Chevy 2500HD High Country
MAWilsonPE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2021, 03:55 PM   #16
rames14
Montana Master
 
rames14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Livermore
Posts: 5,135
M.O.C. #1920
Mike, today we have been in the 30’s most of the day with rain, grapple, thunder and lightning. Hope to have some warmer temps by Friday.
__________________
Ron and Terrie Ames - MOC #1920/KF0NTA
2021Montana 3230CK Super Solar Legacy Package
2021 Ram 3500 Laramie Longhorn, BIM Charging
4x4, SRW, LB, Crew Cab, Pullrite 3900 Hitch
rames14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2021, 04:14 PM   #17
MAWilsonPE
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Weddington
Posts: 143
M.O.C. #26813
Controller/Gateway Location

M&M, I missed your question earlier...

Both the A/C Controller and Netzone Gateway are located inside the inlet air plenum inside the unit on the roof. You have to remove the cover. The inlet plenum is toward the front, remove the duct tape and two screws and you can open it and see the two boxes.

Vacuum out all the sawdust left by the factory!! Be sure to use real duct tape, the aluminum foil kind, to seal it back up. I added quite a bit more than was there to seal all the seams.

Good Luck, Mike
__________________
Mike & Doreen
2021 Montana 3120RL Legacy - Sterling - Super Solar
2020 Chevy 2500HD High Country
MAWilsonPE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2021, 06:16 PM   #18
M&M
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Gulfport
Posts: 105
M.O.C. #27628
Thanks. I’ll do more test before I open it up. I seem to remember that fan and compressor on front AC went off when I tried it. At that point I was just happy that it shed load with the test scenario I used.
__________________
2021 Montana 3231CK, Legacy, Super Solar Flex, Dual Pane Windows, Slide-out Awnings
2021 Dodge RAM 3500 4x4 Limited 6.7 HO DRW, Trailer TPMS, B&W Companion Hitch
M&M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2021, 06:45 PM   #19
MAWilsonPE
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Weddington
Posts: 143
M.O.C. #26813
The wiring info I have does not really tell me what this blue wire does. If you are right, it cuts the both the compressor and fan. I believe the controller with the shed terminals will shed only the compressor. Seems that would be the better option. I need to check with AirXcel. Another short cut by Keystone.
MAWilsonPE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2021, 07:59 PM   #20
firestation12
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Mesa
Posts: 277
M.O.C. #24588
Thx for the explanation! I’ve installed load controllers on residential electrical panels that limit major power appliances usage during on peak hours as designated by the power company, in return for a lower rate.
firestation12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.