The morality of death.

[McRod]

Let's talk about it. It something we all have to face.

First, let me make my values clear. It's my opinion, that we (USA) have not only an obligation, but a duty, to care for the sick, the elderly, the handicapped, and in general, those who can not otherwise take care of themselves (in the USA). That doesn't imply a free ride for those who would think otherwise. I hold a hardline against fraud and malingerers.

I would like to solicit others opinions at what obligations and duties do we have to try to extend the life of people that would otherwise have mother nature take their life.

I am not talking about premature death, like car accidents, death row inmates, or brutal murders. I am talking about age and sickness.

It is my opinion, that everyone is entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I also believe everyone should be allowed to die, as mother nature dictates, with dignity and respect.

Does the entitlement to life come at the liberties of others? I don't think it does, but that's why I pose the question. Where does the moral obligation to allow mother nature's course to happen? Do others have a duty to extend your life, if mother nature is calling and there is no known cure, treatment or procedure for what ails you? At what point do you stop chest compressions?

Certainly there are some doctors amongst us that have had to wrestle with this delemma? What about any legal eagles amongst us with case law studies?

Certainly this forum is filled with many that are about to or have faced death of a loved one.

Share your thoughts.

[Sdgood1]

Montana group??

[PeteandJoan]

I'd rather talk about dead or dying batteries in my Montana. Sorry.

[prndl]

If I am in the at-risk group I will stay home and abide as I deem necessary to stay safe. Other wise I say go to work and live as if you would if the flu was around.
I am in the high risk group but I should be sheltering in place for my own well being not having everyone else sheltering in place to protect me.
The world does not revolve around me.

[Texan]

If a person does not want there life to be extended by artificial means such as 'CPR' then sign a 'DNR' anytime you are going to the hospital and let your loved ones know your plans. I agree with others though that this is not exactly on topic for what this forum was designed for. This sort of topic should be discussed with your family more than with us.

[JEROME]

Thank you for your courage death is as much a part of life as birth. We are all going to die not just to day I hope .Jerome& Judy

[bshgto]

Originally Posted by PeteandJoan

I'd rather talk about dead or dying batteries in my Montana. Sorry.

Yeh, I killed my last battery by leaving a light on in the bedroom and it froze in storage. Then I had the brain child idea of buying 2 6 volts. Not sure it is worth the extra weight or cost but so far so good. Gave the old battery to the dealer he said he can resuscitate them and sell them used.

[mazboy]

I personally don't think this is what our forum is about. My opinion is that it should not be on a montana rv forum. Let's talk about dead batteries.

[fatcatzzz]

Oh boy another I don't want this to be political thread, but......................

[BiggarView]

Originally Posted by mazboy

I personally don't think this is what our forum is about. My opinion is that it should not be on a montana rv forum. Let's talk about dead batteries.

Batteries don't die... they get murdered.

[DutchmenSport]

There was a recent article out of the Netherlands where someone with alzheimer's could be allowed to die a natural death, rather than being kept alive by artificial means when they reach the point they can no longer function on their own accord. Evidently, there had to be legal documentation attended to when the person is still in their full faculties, and then when they no longer have faculties remaining, it would take 2 doctors approvals to euthanize the person.

[PeteandJoan]

when my 2-12v batteries got weak and started to die, I replaced them with 2-6v no service required batteries. I hope they stay healthy and live a long and happy life.

[DutchmenSport]

Well, the question might not be the best one for an RV related forum, but the question itself is a good question, especially once you've read this article:

Click here

Actually, in the USA we do have such a practice, but it's really not so obvious and it's really not talked about, because it's truly one gigantic cover up. I know, I lived through this with my mother.

My mother ended up with dementia and spend the last year and 2 months of her life in a nursing home. She died at the age of 95 (February 2019).

My mother gave me power of attorney years ago over her health and over her finances. She also had a living will. When my mother was still in her somewhat cognizant mind the nursing home wanted me to sign a "DNR" for my mother, since she already had one, their wanted a more recent version. I talked this over with my mother and she agreed this is what she wanted. Little did "I" realize what this actually meant. Basically, it was an order for keeping her comfortable only. And little did I realize it went much, much farther than Do Not Resuscitate. What it actually meant was ... if she can't do it her self, no one else will either.

Things were OK while she still had some mental capacity. But when her speech returned back to her native German, and even that was so mumbled you couldn't make out anything, and then she got to the point where she couldn't even turn over herself, well ... the "Keep in Comfort" part of the contract kicked in.

Little did I realize what was going on. They persuaded me to sign her up for hospice care. I didn't understand what that meant either, but after lots of persuasion and her health declining more and more, and my wife and I were the only two taking care of here, we needed much relief. I agreed to Hospice care (still in the nursing home). Things shifted immediately. Literally, I had no more say in anything, and THEY started the morphine.

One of the nurses was a life-long friend and she pulled me aside one day. She told me (I still did not understand) that I should do everything I could to fight the morphine and get it stopped. She explained morphine slows breathing down, until people simply die of no breath left. (I still did not understand it all).

I argued with Hospice till I turned blue. But they kept "upping" the morphine and my mother was truly comatose, and in-and-out of wake up moments and groaning, trying to get words out. I than began to see what was going on. They continued to pump her full of morphine, UNDER THE GUISE OF "COMFORT CARE", until she didn't have enough strength, for lack of food, to even swallow. I know, the last thing that happens with dementia victims is the fact they even forget how to swallow. He body, 250 pounds and 5 feet 4 inches in her most robust moment, was now only 85 pounds!

I was with her when she took her last breath as the morphine euthanized her. And they do this under the guise of "comfort care."

I had to live through this, and it was horribly hard. But through it all, and even now, I have to remember, THIS IS WHAT MY MOTHER WANTED. She died with dignity and the way she wanted.

So yes, we do have the same process in the USA. It's just disguised real well and not so apparent.

[AZ Traveler]

I am taking good care of my batteries and don't expect to need to make a terminal decision on them anytime soon.

[jeffba]

Just charged my batteries and checked their water levels

[BB_TX]

Added a little water to my battery a month ago. Otherwise still good.

[AZ Traveler]

A good battery monitor will help you get max life out of your batteries.

[TLightning]

Next time get AGM batteries....install them and forget about them. No noxious gasses and no watering.

[mlh]

Life gets to the point where it’s not worth to effort. Sure we would like to keep our loved ones around forever but they get to the point they don’t wont to stay around.
I had a neighbor I had known all my life. Jim was up in how 80s. His kidneys were almost gone. His children wonted him to go on dialysis and we talked about it. He said he didn’t won’t to be on dialysis. He knew dialysis wasn’t any fun. I told him we would all love for him to stay around forever but it was his life and to do whatever he wished. He knew his time was short and he called one morning to say goodbye. Jim lived on for a couple more months and checked out the way he wanted to. Jim we love you buddy.
Lynwood

[RKassl]

Originally Posted by McRod

Let's talk about it. It something we all have to face.

First, let me make my values clear. It's my opinion, that we (USA) have not only an obligation, but a duty, to care for the sick, the elderly, the handicapped, and in general, those who can not otherwise take care of themselves (in the USA). That doesn't imply a free ride for those who would think otherwise. I hold a hardline against fraud and malingerers.

I would like to solicit others opinions at what obligations and duties do we have to try to extend the life of people that would otherwise have mother nature take their life.

I am not talking about premature death, like car accidents, death row inmates, or brutal murders. I am talking about age and sickness.

It is my opinion, that everyone is entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I also believe everyone should be allowed to die, as mother nature dictates, with dignity and respect.

Does the entitlement to life come at the liberties of others? I don't think it does, but that's why I pose the question. Where does the moral obligation to allow mother nature's course to happen? Do others have a duty to extend your life, if mother nature is calling and there is no known cure, treatment or procedure for what ails you? At what point do you stop chest compressions?

Certainly there are some doctors amongst us that have had to wrestle with this delemma? What about any legal eagles amongst us with case law studies?

Certainly this forum is filled with many that are about to or have faced death of a loved one.

Share your thoughts.

What the heck is this all about? I thought we are supposed to talk about leaking black tanks!