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Old 02-06-2005, 12:23 PM   #21
toolmanroy
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We have them in our 2005 2955RL we purchased at the end of June last year. It is an option we would not want to be without.
 
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Old 02-06-2005, 01:38 PM   #22
jrgwdenner
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Someone made a big mistake. Why would they put a hide-a-bed in the LR and make your guests walk into your bedroom if they need to make a trip to the bathroom during the night? That wouldn't be comfortable for anyone.

Just to clarify the issue, are we talking about the sliding door that closes off the bedroom or the privacy curtain that separates the bed from the bathroom....or both?
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Old 02-06-2005, 02:25 PM   #23
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Glen and Judy, you are exactly righ about guests. We have had guests a couple of times in our 2955RL and the sliding door allow for a "pass through" type bath which both couples can use during the night with relative privacy. That is a major issue in the loss of those doors. And as for the doors/curtain, our 2955 has sliding doors on each side of the bathroom area. We need them at both points. They are far better than any "privacy curtain". Let's keep Keystone aware of our insistance that we must have these doors if we are to buy new Montanas in the future.
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Old 02-06-2005, 02:37 PM   #24
sreigle
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Glen and Judy, it's the separation between bed and bath areas we're talking about.

Padre, my understanding is the latest models have neither the wood doors nor the sliding privacy curtain. There is no divider between the bed and the bath area.
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Old 02-06-2005, 03:11 PM   #25
RC and Samantha
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Steve, you're right the newer 2005's don't/won't have the privacy curtain, doors or divider. I'm trying to reserve judgment until I see one.

My sister as a lot of you know has the 3400RL and from my understanding that is the bedroom prototype for all the new units.

This is a big deal to me as I love our privacy doors and would even like a private bathroom and not a pass through one. However Dick loves the new bathroom/bedroom configuration. For me it's a deal breaker I think, but again I am going to reserve judgment until I see one.

I like a couple of others have mentioned would like an option of either bath/bedroom set ups. To me that would be ideal, but then I have no idea how hard that would be for production or Keystone's budget.

Patty
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Old 02-06-2005, 05:12 PM   #26
jrgwdenner
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Thanks for the clarification, Steve. We have a sliding door between the bath/bedroom area and a curtain that hangs between the bed and bathroom area when it is closed. If neither is there, you can't even dress in the bedroom with privacy. What are they thinking?? Or am I missing something?
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Old 02-06-2005, 06:02 PM   #27
sreigle
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They still have the door between downstairs and bath area. So you could still close that door and have dressing privacy upstairs. But if someone is sleeping on the bed while you're shaving and you turn on the vanity light, they will see that light. No door, no curtain to separate the bathroom area from the bed area itself.
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Old 02-07-2005, 02:56 AM   #28
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Has anyone asked, "What in the world led to this most unfortunate change?" It is hard for me to understand. Of course, I had noticed this trend to what I call the "motel suite" in the entire industry. That is one thing that kept us looking until we found the Montana.

Now back to my question, "What led to this change?" and especially on such a total scale: all models, no options. I do not mean this as a merely rhetorical question, I'd really like for someone at Keystone/Montana to give us an answer.
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Old 02-07-2005, 03:13 AM   #29
vickir
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David ... it is my understanding that these changes were made to allow the w/d hookups in all of the models. The kingbed option also factored in there too.

One thing Steve has failed to mention as another problem with the new location of the sink ... he's a water-flinger ... and I'm sure there are others among the MOC membership (you know who you are!). Putting the sink that much closer to the bed and another bedroom accroutements increases the probability of water being flung all over the bedroom!
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Old 02-07-2005, 03:17 AM   #30
CountryGuy
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Have no idea, but the thought that crosses my mind on this David, is that they needed a few more inches here and there to offer the King Size bed, which is one thing that a LOT of MOC members expressed a overwhelming need for in several threads! I remember several threads where there was a lot of teeth knashing that they just HAD to have the King Size bed. Ask and ye shall receive?? Well, it was a thought.

Carol

I see that Vicki has the same thoughts!

Also, I seem to remember a lot of MOC members saying that they did not take "guests" with them. Something about wanting to be alone, etc.????
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Old 02-07-2005, 05:16 AM   #31
padredw
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Thanks, friends, for these responses. I still think Montana had better consider some options. We 'non-full-timers' have no need for the washer/dryer space, and the king bed is not something we feel need for. I wish those whose needs are different would have the option, but to put us all in the same "basket" does not seem wise or fair. At any rate, I've probably "beat this horse to death", and will just say one more time: If Montana does not provide us with the doors, at least as an option, I doubt we will every buy another. As far as we are concerned, that is a sad prospect.
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Old 02-07-2005, 08:39 AM   #32
sreigle
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by padredw

Has anyone asked, "What in the world led to this most unfortunate change?" It is hard for me to understand. Of course, I had noticed this trend to what I call the "motel suite" in the entire industry. That is one thing that kept us looking until we found the Montana.

Now back to my question, "What led to this change?" and especially on such a total scale: all models, no options. I do not mean this as a merely rhetorical question, I'd really like for someone at Keystone/Montana to give us an answer.
Padre, this is a good lead in for the following. First, earlier in this thread you asked me if I would let Keystone know of the concerns expressed in this thread. I did that.

I got a reply from Jeff Rank, who is a Keystone VP over the Montana division (and a very nice guy, by the way, who truly is trying to keep his finger on the pulse, in my opinion.).

Since Jeff's reply was to me personally I was not comfortable with posting his reply in entirety without first ascertaining he has no problem with my doing that. Othherwise I would paraphrase. First I'll paste in Jeff's reply to my second question, the one whether I can post in entirety or should paraphrase. Then I'll paste the reply to the original question..

second email ....
Feel free to utilize any or all of my response. I value the contributions made by you and all the members and continue to utilize the feedback, so I view these negative comments as a positive learning experience for future customers.

Thanks for your interest and work toward making our product and the club a success.

The ‘Hawks are playing much better lately – that Villanova game seemed to be a wake-up call (knock on wood).

Jeff
---------------
and now Jeff's reply to the original question...
Hi, Steve:

I’ve read the thread and absorbed the comments thoroughly. As you know, we will never build a fifth wheel that suits everyone’s needs (as much as we might try). Often times, product improvements are plagued with compromises. In this case, the privacy doors were compromised for the more open feeling, the increased storage, the better walk space around the bed, the ability to offer a king bed and the larger bath countertop. In addition, the larger utility closet in the entranceway was a big improvement over the smaller coat closet we used to have.

Last year, we made this change to two of our 2004 models as a trial and it was a huge success. Many customers asked for this design in our other models. After the success last year and based on customer feedback, I believe that a majority of consumers will prefer this design over what we had before. Judging from our early show results with this new design, we appear to have guessed right. Perhaps, our existing customers would like it also if they actually were to see how it was designed and weighed the many advantages.

Unfortunately, we regret that some people may prefer the old style. Obviously, it’s scary to make changes in a product that is so successful, but if we don’t try to improve, our competition will pass us by. If we have guessed wrong and the majority of our potential customers don’t like what we’ve done, then we may have to regroup.

Thanks for forwarding the comments. This will make for a restful weekend (LOL).

Jeff

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Old 02-07-2005, 08:49 AM   #33
sreigle
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by padredw

We 'non-full-timers' have no need for the washer/dryer space
Padre, I guess I see this part a bit differently. It seems to me that this larger closet at the entry location is a plus for those who do not fulltime and for fulltimers who chose not to have a washer and dryer. It's a significantly larger coat closet by the front door and has space for a myriad of things to be stored, such as brooms, vacuum (if not builtin), vacuum tools, maybe an ironing board (not sure about the fit) and even a hamper for those who want more basement space, among other things.

But for us fulltimers who do want a washer and dryer, we'd lose that coat closet space that we like so much now.

Sometimes I try to look at things from the various perspectives. From a business perspective I see the new Cambridge being touted as a 'fulltimers rig'. So maybe the Montana now is seen to have less need to satisfy both fulltimers and more normal folks. Well, not to say we're abnormal! That's just a thought and may be way off base. Unfortunately the Cambridge is not in the same price range as the Montana so many of us will continue to fulltime in our Montanas. I hope this makes a little sense.
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Old 02-07-2005, 10:19 AM   #34
padredw
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Friend Steve, my reference to the washer/dryer--closet was only in regard to the loss of the privacy doors. I would have NO problem with the closet, except that it comes at too high a price.
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Old 02-07-2005, 10:23 AM   #35
padredw
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Maybe its time for me to lighten up a bit. Since I am a "good ol' Southern boy" I have had some recommendations from neighbors about RVs that they have designed. Maybe you'd like to help me make a selection:

http://www.dwilliamson.com/rvsel/RVPage.html

And I know I should put this in "around the campfire" so I think I will!

New Models added! Same URL.
http://www.dwilliamson.com/rvsel/RVPage.html

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Old 02-07-2005, 11:25 AM   #36
CountryGuy
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Steve, and Jeff (HI JEFF!)

I too LOVE my little coat closet inside the door of my 2004 3295RK! OK, I cannot hang my heavy winter coats in there, but, spring and summer jackets, a sweater, etc, fit just perfect. The upper closet portion has become the stash of paper goods, TP, etc.

I also LOVE my large washer/dryer closet in the bed/bath area. We put shelves in there, and it sure can hold a lot, including a 3 month supply of dog food for 4 little yorkies (still a LOT of food). Why the large supply of food, well, cause they are all on special diets and in some states my vet's prescription is not acknowledged, or accepted, so, now I take TOO much food, and that closet handles it!)

That said, the queen bed we have is sufficient for us, we LOVE the corner hutch cabinet in the front room, and we are so glad we bought a 2004, we got a lot of improvements we love and did not get some, we might have liked, and did not get some we do not care for.

Ain't it great that the world is round and we all like different stuff??? What works for the Stevens and yorks might not work for other MOC members and Montana owners.

Carol
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Old 02-07-2005, 12:56 PM   #37
Glenn and Lorraine
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I would like to believe Jeff's above statement but I am very skeptical. Read back of every response in this thread and find that NOT ONE of these "Many customers" asked for this change nor do any of these "Many customers" want this change. Having an accordian type door as an option makes more sense than eliminating them totally.

Paraphrasing Jeff's statement "Judging from our early MOC results with this new design, we appear to have guessed WRONG."

Quote:
quote:If we have guessed wrong and the majority of our potential customers don’t like what we’ve done, then we may have to regroup.
Judging by the comments of the Many MOC customers I would say it maybe time to regroup. Regroup now before these MOCers become SOBers (Some Other Brand).
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Old 02-07-2005, 02:05 PM   #38
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Thanks, Glenn, as you know I could not agree more. We love our 2955RL as it is. We are tempted to pull out and join the folks down in the Valley. They are in Texas arn't they? That's only about 700 miles from here. I could almost get to visit you within 700 miles. That would be fun too. We usually come to Florida in he Spring (Pensacola, Panama City, and down to Leesburg). OK, I'm going on too much, just wanted to thank you for your contribution this forum.
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Old 02-07-2005, 02:12 PM   #39
CountryGuy
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Leave NOW David, you can make it here to the Rio Grande by the 17th, NO trouble!

Carol
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Old 02-07-2005, 02:53 PM   #40
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We just might do that, Carol. We did go to the Valley a couple of years ago in January. Visited some of our friends there. We stayed in the "Alamo Rose" RV park. I guess it was near Alamo. Stayed just a night or two. Went on out to South Padre Island and stayed another couple of nights, then back home. We are 'itching' to get on the road again. And that gathering in the Valley sounds like it would be a lot of fun. We'll just have to see. I have some commitments here until after this weekend. After that we will check out the possibilities.
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