Lithium-Ion batteries & converter

[scottz]

For those that have installed lithium batteries; did you have to changer out your converter. Mine is a Progressive Dynamics PD4575K18L. I can't find any reference in the manual to lithium batteries.

[rohrmann]

Apparently, they have a new model of the 4500 series that can have an optional switch that can turn off the Charge Wizard to put out a steady 14.6 volts for lithium charging or with it turned on, the Charge Wizard operates normally. They also have a 4500LI series that can only be used to charged LiFePO4 batteries and no provision for lead acid batteries.
https://www.progressivedyn.com/wp-co...al-English.pdf
My older converter must be replaced if I wanted to charge lithium batteries, and I have no idea when they came out with this change.

[PNW Fireguy]

There are two ways to go in that scenario Scott. The stock converter/charger can be used if one is ok running a less than 100% capacity for the life of the batteries. So that $995 BB that is listed as a 100AH battery becomes say a 75-85AH battery because the PD does not have a charge profile with a high enough bulk charging voltage to bring the battery back to the 100% SOC voltage. The batteries will actually last longer in this scenario because of the charging pattern and the fact that LiFePO4 batteries do not need to be charged to 100% like PbSO4.
The option I would choose would be to either upgrade via PS to their lithium compatible version converter/charger
Of course you can always ditch them Bothell and install an inverter / charger and not even use the converter at all but I know that wasn’t your question

[jeffba]

https://www.progressivedyn.com/rv/po...ies/#downloads

https://www.progressivedyn.com/wp-co...al-English.pdf
Page 3

OPTIONAL OUTPUT MODE SWITCH:
The optional OUTPUT MODE SWITCH sets the converter output to either a constant 14.6VDC with the Charge Wizard® disabled
(switch in ‘LI’ position) or a nominal 13.6VDC with full Charge Wizard®
function (switch in ‘LA’ position). ‘LI’ mode is intended
for use with lithium batteries with a BMS requiring a constant converter output. ‘LA’ mode is intended for use with lead/acid
batteries where the Charge Wizard® will optimize battery charging.
NOTE: The OUTPUT MODE SWITCH should only be switched when new batteries are installed.
Verify battery type before adjusting the output mode switch.

Check to see if yours has the optional switch

[suny07]

Hi,

depending on how you use the batteries I bet you need an inverter as well to use the batteries if you not have one already.
You can select a inverter/converter combo allowing to apply the right charging profile.

an example for your further research is the Xantrex Freedom XC line.

They include an automatic transfer switch, charge upto 80amp meaning you charge two 100 amp batteries in little over 2 hrs with a generator.

Happy researching

Mike

[scottz]

Originally Posted by suny07

Hi,

depending on how you use the batteries I bet you need an inverter as well to use the batteries if you not have one already.
You can select a inverter/converter combo allowing to apply the right charging profile.

an example for your further research is the Xantrex Freedom XC line.

They include an automatic transfer switch, charge upto 80amp meaning you charge two 100 amp batteries in little over 2 hrs with a generator.

Happy researching

Mike

Thanks for the info. I already have a 2000W pure sine wave inverter and a transfer switch; so not looking to buy new ones.

[scottz]

Originally Posted by jeffba

https://www.progressivedyn.com/rv/po...ies/#downloads

https://www.progressivedyn.com/wp-co...al-English.pdf
Page 3

OPTIONAL OUTPUT MODE SWITCH:
The optional OUTPUT MODE SWITCH sets the converter output to either a constant 14.6VDC with the Charge Wizard® disabled
(switch in ‘LI’ position) or a nominal 13.6VDC with full Charge Wizard®
function (switch in ‘LA’ position). ‘LI’ mode is intended
for use with lithium batteries with a BMS requiring a constant converter output. ‘LA’ mode is intended for use with lead/acid
batteries where the Charge Wizard® will optimize battery charging.
NOTE: The OUTPUT MODE SWITCH should only be switched when new batteries are installed.
Verify battery type before adjusting the output mode switch.

Check to see if yours has the optional switch

Thanks Jeff, I'll check for this switch, but don't remember seeing it.

[scottz]

Originally Posted by PNW Fireguy

There are two ways to go in that scenario Scott. The stock converter/charger can be used if one is ok running a less than 100% capacity for the life of the batteries. So that $995 BB that is listed as a 100AH battery becomes say a 75-85AH battery because the PD does not have a charge profile with a high enough bulk charging voltage to bring the battery back to the 100% SOC voltage. The batteries will actually last longer in this scenario because of the charging pattern and the fact that LiFePO4 batteries do not need to be charged to 100% like PbSO4.
The option I would choose would be to either upgrade via PS to their lithium compatible version converter/charger
Of course you can always ditch them Bothell and install an inverter / charger and not even use the converter at all but I know that wasn’t your question

Thanks, I'll factor the cost of a new converter (if I don't have the Li option) into the cost of switching to lithium batteries.

When I need the batteries the most (dry camping) I guess my solar panels and Victron 100/50 would be working towards the 100% point.

[scottz]

Originally Posted by rohrmann

Apparently, they have a new model of the 4500 series that can have an optional switch that can turn off the Charge Wizard to put out a steady 14.6 volts for lithium charging or with it turned on, the Charge Wizard operates normally. They also have a 4500LI series that can only be used to charged LiFePO4 batteries and no provision for lead acid batteries.
https://www.progressivedyn.com/wp-co...al-English.pdf
My older converter must be replaced if I wanted to charge lithium batteries, and I have no idea when they came out with this change.

Thanks, I'm checking to see if mine is the new or old version.

[scottz]

Changing the subject a little, is there usually someone at Quartzsite that has a good show price on the lithium batteries?

[PNW Fireguy]

Scott that last bit of information changes things up a bit. If you already have a inverter charger then I would recommend using your battery to supply dc loads. Here is the reason. On our PD distribution unit the converter is integral to the charger. In our case the charger is useless to us as our inverter charger and BMS control all charging including solar. The PD would essentially be an uncontrollable charging source. There is no way to just use the converter portion so we therefore pulled the reverse polarity fuses so as to remove it from the battery.

[scottz]

Originally Posted by PNW Fireguy

Scott that last bit of information changes things up a bit. If you already have a inverter charger then I would recommend using your battery to supply dc loads. Here is the reason. On our PD distribution unit the converter is integral to the charger. In our case the charger is useless to us as our inverter charger and BMS control all charging including solar. The PD would essentially be an uncontrollable charging source. There is no way to just use the converter portion so we therefore pulled the reverse polarity fuses so as to remove it from the battery.

No, I don't have an inverter/charger. It is just an inverter. My battery plant is charged from either the converter or solar panels or both.

[PNW Fireguy]

I gotcha, my bad. I thought was what you said at the ralley but the posts got me confused. Seems to be happening more the older I get.