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Old 10-28-2019, 05:53 PM   #41
CADman_KS
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...
The one reason for leaving it in there is when you sell. I would be the prudent thing to make sure that the unit is to code when you sell it. If you kept the valve, you could always put it back together when you sold it.

...
This paragraph should have said:

The one reason for putting it back in there is when you sell. It would be the prudent thing to make sure that the unit is to code when you sell it. If you kept the valve, you could always put it back together when you sold it.
 
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Old 12-05-2019, 06:10 AM   #42
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I do like the idea of using this style of vacuum breaker as opposed to the one that's in the unit.



However, wouldn't it make sense to put this on the end of the hose that attaches to the water supply side? That way, there is never any water that is spilled in the convenience center. ...

If I was to put one of these in the convenience center, I don't want that thing spewing water every time that I turn the hose off.

...
On our last outing, I put the vacuum breaker in the convenience center. As suspected, when the water shut off, I had water everywhere in there.

I'm going to move the vacuum breaker to the outside at the water supply, and bypass the vacuum breaker inside with a couple of 90's. That way, we are still legal as far as water backflowing into the supply side...
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Old 11-15-2020, 06:59 PM   #43
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I realize this is an old thread, but is there a chance you can post photo of brass under your sink and the valve you added outside?
Thanks
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Old 12-10-2020, 09:46 AM   #44
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Another question is looking at youtube, it appears you can replace with the "brass" valve and use plumbers tape. And the one most people replace with on amazon is sold out and apparently may not be available again. There is a cheaper one that people have used. Seems straight forward and no need for tools. Too good to be true? Camper is an hour away so want to be prepared should I start this project. Mine is under bathroom sink. Thanks,
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Old 12-10-2020, 10:25 AM   #45
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I don't know what it's going to take how many threads and how many posts to get people to understand, do away with the government-mandated valve before it floods your camper.
It doesn't matter how you do it or where you do it but simply Plum the two lines together and remove the valve.
The valve it's virtually the same as the air gap for your dishwasher that are sometimes mounted on the sink deck. They are not needed as long as there's a high Loop in the drain line
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Old 12-10-2020, 11:59 AM   #46
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............ They are not needed as long as there's a high Loop in the drain line
That is not true. The purpose of an anti siphon atmospheric vent is to break the vacuum to prevent the siphoning of water back thru a pipe. The siphoning would occur in the event of loss of water pressure in the public supply line. When pressure is lost in the main supply lines, the water begins to flow out the lowest places in the line as people open faucets or flush, pulling a vacuum on the upper parts of the line. That vacuum can pull water out of feeder lines going to buildings, outside watering systems, and yes, RVs. That is why you have air in your home water lines after the public water supply has been shut off. It would siphon water even from an elevated loop if there were no vent to relieve that negative pressure. Highly unlikely the specific conditions would be right for it to pull any black water contaminates from an RV flush system, but possible. And that is why it is mandated. If it is possible, someone will find a way to do it.


Think of siphoning gas from a car gas tank. You run a hose down the filler tube. It goes up in a higher loop and then down into some container (or the ground). And the outside end of the hose is lower than the hose end in the tank. You suck on the hose to create a vacuum to pull gas up thru the hose and down to the lower outside part of the hose. And then the siphoning will pull gas up thru the loop and down and continue to run out the outside end.
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Old 12-10-2020, 01:38 PM   #47
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You said it yourself it's highly unlikely that it will ever happen. You just can't fix stupid. That's what it would take for that to happen.

On another note I haven't installed a dishwasher air gap in quite some time. all of the dishwashers have a built-in high loop attached to the side of them. I think they are no longer required.
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Old 12-10-2020, 01:52 PM   #48
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Well then, how hard is it to just remove the valve and connect the two water lines. Just looking at my options such as just using a back flow preventer on the hose or removing the valve completely! Thanks,
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Old 12-10-2020, 01:58 PM   #49
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Extremely simple if you use push on SharkBite fittings. If it's under a cabinet and you can get at it just cut the two lines push on two 90-degree fittings with a small piece of pipe between the two fittings. Just make certain everything is pushed together tightly
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Old 12-10-2020, 05:17 PM   #50
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Extremely simple if you use push on SharkBite fittings. If it's under a cabinet and you can get at it just cut the two lines push on two 90-degree fittings with a small piece of pipe between the two fittings. Just make certain everything is pushed together tightly

^^^^IMO this is the way to do it. Replacing that awkward valve is cumbersome and problematic going forward. Put the 90s on and the anti siphon on the end of the flush hose and done.
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Old 12-10-2020, 06:45 PM   #51
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It’s simple, take the POJ out deposit it in the nearest trash can reconnect the two lines then take a nice nap in your camper. See simple. Easy.
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Old 12-10-2020, 10:09 PM   #52
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[QUOTE=BB_TX;1206595]That is not true. The purpose of an anti siphon atmospheric vent is to break the vacuum to prevent the siphoning of water back thru a pipe.



The problem with the theory above is your forgetting that the black tank flush line is supplied via its own separate hose fitting. It is only connected (via a special hose I hope) to the supply water for the few minutes it takes to wash the tank. The line is only used for a few minutes of MONITORED use. And at all the parks I have ever visited, the flush water was on a dedicated line with a sign indicating non potable water which means it doesn't matter if the black tank water did siphon back to it. And that is the reason you should have a dedicated hose for flushing the tank (I even got one that was black IE: color coded).

Additionally for the water to siphon back out of the black tank it must be above the level of the spray nozzle in the black tank (which is usually mounted very high in the tank).

The two above facts make it all but completely impossible for the black water to ever contaminate your fresh water supply. You should be more concerned about being struck by lighting a mile deep in a cave.

But if you want to be silly about it, it makes more sense to add a check valve on the back of the hose fitting than to worry about the anti-siphon valve. Considering the very real possibility that the lowest bidder cheap plastic anti-siphon valve will fail and lead to serious water damage I for one am in the bypass it camp!!
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Old 12-10-2020, 11:19 PM   #53
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If you're that worried about it simply put a check valve in line. I put them in the lines to the shower to prevent the cold water from getting you when you turn the water back on while taking a shower
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Old 12-11-2020, 07:03 AM   #54
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I don't think you need expensive sharkbites. Won't a 1/2" by 2" or shorter nipple do the same thing?
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Old 12-11-2020, 07:40 AM   #55
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Yeah I'm sure a nipple would work but to me that's just two more joints to vibrate loose going down the road.
I am not a big fan of shark bites however in an RV situation that work fine.
I will not use them in my Sticks and Bricks or anybody else's
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Old 12-11-2020, 10:01 AM   #56
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[QUOTE=mtlakejim;1206642]
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That is not true. The purpose of an anti siphon atmospheric vent is to break the vacuum to prevent the siphoning of water back thru a pipe.




The problem with the theory above is your forgetting that the black tank flush line is supplied via its own separate hose fitting. It is only connected (via a special hose I hope) to the supply water for the few minutes it takes to wash the tank. The line is only used for a few minutes of MONITORED use. And at all the parks I have ever visited, the flush water was on a dedicated line with a sign indicating non potable water which means it doesn't matter if the black tank water did siphon back to it. And that is the reason you should have a dedicated hose for flushing the tank (I even got one that was black IE: color coded).

Additionally for the water to siphon back out of the black tank it must be above the level of the spray nozzle in the black tank (which is usually mounted very high in the tank).

The two above facts make it all but completely impossible for the black water to ever contaminate your fresh water supply. You should be more concerned about being struck by lighting a mile deep in a cave.

But if you want to be silly about it, it makes more sense to add a check valve on the back of the hose fitting than to worry about the anti-siphon valve. Considering the very real possibility that the lowest bidder cheap plastic anti-siphon valve will fail and lead to serious water damage I for one am in the bypass it camp!!
I didn't forget anything. I said in previous post above that "I also agree that the likelihood of getting black water back into the public water supply is very remote at best. BUT. If there is a way, someone will do it. And it is possible under very specific conditions". And again note the "under very specific conditions".

Most every AHJ is going to have some ordinance or code to require an anti backflow device on any water connection that is connected to, or could be connected to, a potential source of dirty water. And I simply noted the why of that above.

And I am also in favor of eliminating the anti siphon valve and adding an external vacuum breaker nib at the hose.

We obviously camp at different RV parks/campgrounds. I have never been to one that had both potable and non potable water sources at each site. Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
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Old 12-11-2020, 10:08 AM   #57
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I am certain the water at the dump station that is considered for dirty use is plumbed in to the same water system as the potable water faucet
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Old 12-11-2020, 10:50 AM   #58
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I am certain the water at the dump station that is considered for dirty use is plumbed in to the same water system as the potable water faucet
I agree. I canít imagine they would run a completely separate water source. Maybe an anti backflow device installed in that line. Probably labeled non potable mostly to discourage people from using a contaminated hose and faucet to get fresh water.
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Old 12-12-2020, 07:13 AM   #59
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I agree. I canít imagine they would run a completely separate water source. Maybe an anti backflow device installed in that line. Probably labeled non potable mostly to discourage people from using a contaminated hose and faucet to get fresh water.
At the seasonal park we visit in OH they have a backflow preventer not too much different than the backflow I have on my sprinkler system at home
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Old 12-12-2020, 12:18 PM   #60
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Several of the COE parks here in Arkansas have signs on their flush water at the dump stations (no they don't run separate lines to each campsite-in fact most COE here don't have water hookups at site).


I agree that more than likely the non potable water spigot is on same line. I'm not sure why they do it other than maybe the concern that it is close to the dump station (IE: contamination source).


Most of the time the hose has the end cut off or its one of those spring loaded tower sort of things that are more or less useless for anything except washing out the 4" dump hose. For that reason I try to have some water onboard in my fresh water tank and I have a special setup (with check valve) to use the 12volt pump on the black tank wash line. I also have a dump station at home so sometimes I just wait till I can use that.
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