Gas and diesel prices

[timandsusan]

On a recent radio program, the forecast for diesel prices to stay high or go up. Why? When refining a barrel of oil (actually 42 gallons), the refiner gets 20 gallons of gasoline, 12 gallons of diesel, and then all the other stuff. This is basically fixed. So, the demand for gasoline is flat--no real growth projected in the future due to fuel economy, etc. For Diesel the use is increasing in commercial trucks, and other uses. Then in 2020 the ships using dirty diesel will convert to low Sulphur diesel. Diesel demand will grow. To meet the demand, refiners will produce more diesel and also get more gasoline. I don't know what a fix may be. So far the fix is lower price of gasoline and the higher price of diesel.

[Rsmarlow82]

Thanks for your response Puzzling to say the least Currently gas is about $2.10 and diesel about $3.24
In most other countries, diesel is cheaper than gas and in europe I've seen more diesel vehicles than gas

[Dave W]

Originally Posted by timandsusan

Then in 2020 the ships using dirty diesel will convert to low Sulphur diesel. .

For sure not any sort of expert, what US or foreign flag ships will be converting from heavy and preheated Bunker C, etc. to low sulfur #2? Yes, the US Navy ships that use aircraft derivative LM gas turbine use #1-2 or jet fuel, but they already must use low sulfur/lead and other metals fuel or risk hot section failure.

[Carl n Susan]

My friend, and a member here, is a Chief Engineer on one of the world's largest tug boats. He has been telling us for years that the marine industry is replacing (or scrapping) their Bunker C engines in anticipation of the new emission standards.


Governing bodies around the world, e.g., California, European Union, have established Emission Control Areas (ECA) that limit the maximum sulfur of fuels burned in their ports to limit pollution, reducing the percentage of sulfur and other particulates from 4.5% m/m to as little as 0.10% as of 2015 inside an ECA. As of 2013 3.5% continued to be permitted outside an ECA, but the International Maritime Organization has planned to lower the sulfur content requirement outside the ECAs to 0.5% m/m by 2020.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_oil )

The ECAs cover most of the oceans and a shipper desiring to operate in those areas will have to comply.

[Dave W]

I just cannot believe those vessels registered in 'garden' 3rd world countries of convenience such as Liberia, Sierra Leone, Bangladesh or even Panama will be able to afford to reengine or replace ships that burn, for no better term, tar-like Bunker C/residual oil. The wiki article noted above has a few weasel words that kind of back this up "By 2020, regulations in wealthy nations require use of low sulfur fuels to combat pollution, therefore it is expected that the excess cheap yet dirty fuel would find its way into other markets, including displacing some onshore energy pro>duction in poorer nations."

Oh well, back to the OP subject

[mtlakejim]

I wouldn't mind paying taxes on fuel IF they would dedicate it exclusively to improving the ROADS!!! And I hope that anyone that is against drilling has to pay double!


Scattershot,
It is a little more complicated than that. Crude Oil comes out of the ground at a lot of different gravities. One of the issues with diesel is that there isn't as much of the type of crude oil it is made from being produced as there used to be and the result is supply vs demand kicks in.


I think you will find that truckers are not at all happy about high diesel prices. While they may be able to eventually pass some of the cost on they usually end up eating a lot of it, especially short term or if it is particularly high in certain areas of the country.


What nearly everyone including oil companies (exception for the folks with an environmental agenda) would like to see is stable fuel prices that you could reliably base your business model on!

[footz1941]

Recent trip South Texas to Kansas City. Never saw prices vary as much. One small town $2.89 coming into town $2.57 leaving town for the same brand Valero. Diesel $2.59 to $3.09 Two years ago in Arizona I pulled off the Interstate to fuel up Shell $3.73 for diesel 2 blocks away at QT $3.17

[PNW Fireguy]

Someone has clearly been drinking the Kool-aid.

[Wicked1]

Originally Posted by timandsusan

On a recent radio program, the forecast for diesel prices to stay high or go up. Why? When refining a barrel of oil (actually 42 gallons), the refiner gets 20 gallons of gasoline, 12 gallons of diesel, and then all the other stuff. This is basically fixed. So, the demand for gasoline is flat--no real growth projected in the future due to fuel economy, etc. For Diesel the use is increasing in commercial trucks, and other uses. Then in 2020 the ships using dirty diesel will convert to low Sulphur diesel. Diesel demand will grow. To meet the demand, refiners will produce more diesel and also get more gasoline. I don't know what a fix may be. So far the fix is lower price of gasoline and the higher price of diesel.

Really it all just means they are trying to squeeze the use of diesel, for me the difference is ridiculous however if diesel stays high (since I use my 1 ton for work and towing my fifth wheel) I will just dump the RV and my truck for something more fuel efficient like a car.

There is no reason for me to pay that much more just be they want to keep the price of diesel high, and when truckers start taxing on more costs be of their diesel costs someone may do something about it be there is no reason for $.70- $1.00 more per gal of diesel over gas.

And for those who claim they pollute more, blah blah blah be there are more gas vehicles then diesel also how are you going to ship products across the USA and overseas without diesel vehicles and ships. If is all a ploy by the folks trying to squeeze more money out of us to afford the diesel vehicles over gas, makes no sense to me bc there are so many other areas they could protect the environment