Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > HEY KEYSTONE! > What I'd like to say if...
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-29-2015, 03:41 PM   #1
cavalry6
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Artesia
Posts: 5
M.O.C. #17458
Disappointment in 2015 Montana.

I will post the letter I sent to my dealer who has forwarded it to the Montana Production Supervisor. NO answer or contact from Montana so far.

May 16, 2015

Montana Production Division
c/o Main Trailer Sales
Roswell, NM

To Whom It May Concern:

My name is Mark Craddock from Artesia, NM. My wife, Teresa & I are Full Time RVíers who prefer to live in a Montana RV. Our first model was a 2013 #3582. This was a perfect floor plan for our full time living in comfort. We saw a new 2015 #3720RL at Main Trailer Sales in Roswell, NM. Our salesman, David told us about the Legacy package and we decided that was for us. This is our third trailer from Main Trailer and 2nd Montana. However, we have some major bones to pick about this new trailer. I will explain each item we are unhappy about and start with the bedroom.

BEDROOM:
The closet clothes rod has a bend in the middle and will fail due to a lack of stiffness in the rod. I will send a picture of the rod to Main Trailer Sales. As you can see from the picture there is a pronounced downward bow in the rod. The solution we came up with is to replace the rod with a galvanize rod the same diameter and length.

The storage under the bed was reduced by about 2/3 due to the water lines and not sure what else leading to the washing machine area. Again here is a picture (sorry it is not the best) of the storage area. This hurts our ability to store items there and help maintain our enjoyment of the trailer.

Window shades in bedroom should be the day/night shades as well. Why just go half way in allowing the owners to sleep in comfort. When trying to sleep at sunrise the light comes thru and wakes you up. In your printed material it does not say that the day/night shades are not in the bedroom. This is at best a misleading statement and at worst, false advertising.

The quiet cool air conditioning system is another item that is misleading. The second air conditioning system in the bedroom is not quiet. Again the print material does not say that it is only for the AC system in the living area. Same misleading statement.

The heater does not put out enough heat to heat either the bedroom or the bathroom. I have not checked the heating system in the basement yet to see if the heating duct is connected correctly. Also, why not put a heating duct on the other side of the bed as well. This would allow for better heat distribution on those cold mornings. Since we are on the subject of heating, the floor heater for the bedroom/bathroom does not heat up the floor. This is a major reason we purchased this trailer was so we could have a warm floor when getting out of the shower on cold mornings. This part of the legacy package is a failure. How do you plan on fixing that one? Remember, we live it this trailer full time. Also the heating duct to the bedroom in the basement is a cheap dryer vent instead of being the same ducting as the main living area.

The mattress provided with the 3720RL was thin and uncomfortable. The word CHEAP comes to mind. We had to replace it in order to get a good nightís sleep. I suggest that you upgrade the mattress to a memory foam at least 10 inches thick. I would not mind paying for a better mattress.

The bedroom could use another cabinet with a mirror on it instead of just a mirror. As full timers we need and use all of the storage space we can get.


BATHROOM:
We already covered the floor heater problems with the bedroom. The toilet bowl will not hold water. When you flush the toilet and put water in the bottom it leaks out. I have tried to clean off the gasket around the bottom of the toilet. This did not work and it also allows some swamp gas to leak into the bathroom.

The exhaust fan in the bathroom is so powerful and placed over the stool that it pulls up swamp gas from the black tank. It should be moved more into the middle of the room. Also, the stool has a design problem with the water that cleans the bowl. It does not reach the front of the stool allowing the urine to be washed down the drain.

The shower leaks around the bottom due to no caulking where the rails join each other. I have sent a picture to David at Main Trailer Sales. My solution was to get some clear caulking and caulk the bottom of the shower door. This should have been done at the factory.

The cabinet under the sink could use a shelf. This would allow us to make better use of the cabinet space.

LIVING AREA:

There is a major lack of cabinet storage in this area. You redesigned the cabinets around the walls above the windows. When you removed a section of three cabinets and made the window above the table bigger you did not think about the loss of storage. You were trying to keep up with JAYCO. Again, you failed to take into consideration how this would hurt your consumers. The cabinets at each end of the wall were reduced in size by removing the angle that made it deeper and allowed more room for storage. The window did not need to be bigger as for the most part you only sit at the table to eat. The storage is more important as it allows for full timers and I am sure even weekenders to bring along items they want and a place to store them.

The island was reduced in size and the cabinet was removed again reducing our storage area. The smaller island makes food preparation difficult. The sink has also been reduced in size. WHY?? The reduction of storage space hurts our ability to store food, dishes, and other items needed for living in our trailer.

The entertainment area has been redesigned and not for the better. The shelves on the sides canít hold anything while traveling. So we must add another step in our getting ready to move the RV. The doors should be put back in place which will allow us to store items on the shelves. This is a no brainer. Placing the DVD player on the top shelf is a poor idea. My wife must use a stool in order to reach the DVD player due to the fact that she is only 5í 2Ē tall. Put the sound bar on top of the TV and the DVD player, radio, and satellite receiver below the TV. Also the drawers under the TV are smaller in height than in our other Montana.

The dining table has been made smaller and no drawer. The fact that it does not swivel does not trouble me. The folding chairs could be done away with since we lost the under the seat storage areas. After all, even folded we need to find a place to store them. So what real difference does it make? Put the real chairs back into the trailer.

Adding an 18 cubic foot refrigerator was great. We now have cold/frozen storage that allows us to plan for the week. However, the wall next to the refrigerator is warm to the touch and when putting a thermometer the temperature was 65 degrees. The bottom of the refrigerator keeps filling up with water. This forces either me or my wife to take out the crispers and clean up the water. I have checked to ensure that the drain pan is under the fins and that the drain line is hooked up properly.

EXTERIOR:
The awning is higher and canít be lowered enough to give shade where you would like it. Also, the awning is set so straight that it fills up with rain water causing it to sag.

The Basement area has some problems as well. The first thing we had Main Trailer Sales do was come out and fix the crimp in the water line that leads to the washer. Both hot & cold were pinched which would have led to them breaking with a basement full of items. The other problem is that the storage space has been reduced by about 1/3 when compared to our old Montana. You did give me an additional small space which did work out nice. Why donít you put additional storage bins at the back end of the trailer? This would allow for additional outside storage and for a few dollars you would be a hero to the customers. Our Fleetwood Pride had storage like that and it worked out great for us. They donít need to be real big just enough to hold leveler blocks or extra sewer hose.

CLOSING:
The items we covered in this letter were not noticeable until we stared transferring our items into the new trailer nor I am sure all we will find in the future. That is when we discovered the problems with this one. This trailer, in our opinion, does not live up to the ďAll SeasonĒ living standard that we enjoyed in our 3582. Montana has been the number ONE selling RV for over 10 years. WHY? Because they set the industry standard not following one of their competitionís cheap ideas. If you did adopted an idea from one of the competitors it was done to a higher level. I hate to say this, but if we wanted a cheaply made trailer we would have purchased a Jayco, Columbus, Redwood, or Open Range. My wife and I purchased a second Montana because of the quality and livability we had come to expect. This new Montana 3720RL does not meet this standard.

Whoever decided that changing the designs for livability has never spent a month or more living in a trailer or did any market research as to how it effects the consumer who is either a part-timer or a full-time RVíer. We chose Montana because we felt it was the best RV on the market. If you havenít figured it out by now that we are VERY UNHAPPY with this trailer than you are very dense. I really donít want to switch to one of your competitors but you are going to make it happen by not thinking things thru on how the redesigned trailer will affect your customer base. I am sure that we are not the only ones who are thinking this way. We have shown our Montana 3582 to lots of people on the road. We donít plan on doing that so much with this one. If asked we will tell the truth. At this point, the truth as we see it will hurt Montana because we as fulltime RVíers find the new ďimprovementsĒ done with poor planning.

If you have any questions please call me at: 575-748-5069 or email me at: cavalry59@yahoo.com

Mark Craddock
Dissatisfied Montana Owner!
 
cavalry6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2015, 04:41 PM   #2
cjohnson
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Huntsville
Posts: 149
M.O.C. #11148
We have been looking at a 2015 Big Sky, since we will start full timing at the end of June this year, but after going thru three of them and reading comments here, we decided to stay with our 2011 3100RL. We believe it has much better quality than the new 2015.
So sad to see a very good product, cheapened.
cjohnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2015, 04:51 PM   #3
cavalry6
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Artesia
Posts: 5
M.O.C. #17458
I agree. I didn't buy this 2015 to have LESS. I could have gotten any new trailer where my nephew in law works at Carthage. Hopefully, Montana will look at what they are doing.
cavalry6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2015, 04:07 AM   #4
1retired06
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Lake Gaston
Posts: 8,644
M.O.C. #12156
We are happy with our 2015, but had many many issues. Keystone fixed all of them, all occurring after the first 30 days. We are sitting in Gatlinburg, with our new refrigerator and new M/W and new upstairs gray and black flush valves after picking up the unit Thursday. At this moment, the unit is perfect. Having owned four Montana units, I am not sure my problems were so much quality driven but rather sloppy careless build, as reflected by my earlier post where our refrigerator failed because they left the packing material on the back of the frig when they installed. As we sit here we are happy with our unit. We did get this 2015 in July, before they made the production changes. PS, re first post above, I would not categorize Redwood as a cheap trailer, but was impressed with the detail and thought put into the various observations. The quality issues we noticed, were the mattress (got a serta mattress topper) and the furniture, in particular the dining room chairs, one of which broke the first time we sat down on it (we replaced the chairs via a furniture store).
__________________
Mike and Lorraine
2002 3655 FL, 2005 3650RK
2010 3665RE, 2015 3910FB
F350 crew cab dually 6.7
1retired06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2015, 05:26 AM   #5
DQDick
Site Team
 
DQDick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wilsey
Posts: 18,725
M.O.C. #11455
It's problems like you reported that keep those of us who've added shelves, change clothes rods and fixed most if not all of the "problems" on our rigs from even looking at a new one.
__________________
Dick, Joyce, Diego, Picatso and Gustav
2017 3720 RL, and 2013 HC 343RL
Pullrite Hitch, IS, Disk Brakes, 3rd AC, Winegard Traveler, Bathroom door mod, Dometic 320, couch for desk swap, replaced chairs, sun screens, added awnings, etc.
DQDick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2015, 06:06 AM   #6
DarMar
Montana Master
 
DarMar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brandon
Posts: 3,944
M.O.C. #1034
It's become a sad reality that when one upgrades to a new unit there is a period of time we have to go through to get the kinks worked out.

We have an early 2015 model and we can certainly agree that many of the mid year design changes you have mentioned may not have been for the better and the problems you have encountered are becoming all too frequent.

It's taken us a whole year with finally getting word yesterday that Keystone/Dometic is now going to do a complete fridge replacement for us!!!

With the dissatisfaction level climbing one would think something has to change soon.


__________________
Darwin & Maureen DeBackere
Minnedosa, Manitoba, Canada
2011/3500/Silverado/4x4/DRW/Duramax
2017/3721RL/Legacy Pkg./Pressure-Pro
DarMar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2015, 06:54 AM   #7
JandC
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Frostproof, FL USA
Posts: 2,360
M.O.C. #13272
Mark, I am not a defender of Keystone RV. I have owned two and was very disappointed after buying my new 2014. I think the overall quality has gone down and their customer relations isn't the best.

But some of your complaints are probably not valid. For example you stated:

"The storage under the bed was reduced by about 2/3 due to the water lines and not sure what else leading to the washing machine area. Again here is a picture (sorry it is not the best) of the storage area. This hurts our ability to store items there and help maintain our enjoyment of the trailer."

Shouldn't you have checked this area and realized this could be an issue prior to purchasing?

Again, once in the unit you start realizing other things that aren't to you liking:

"The quiet cool air conditioning system is another item that is misleading. The second air conditioning system in the bedroom is not quiet. Again the print material does not say that it is only for the AC system in the living area. Same misleading statement."

This didn't come as a shock to us since we had the dealer turn our systems on prior to us even making an offer.

"The mattress provided with the 3720RL was thin and uncomfortable. The word CHEAP comes to mind. We had to replace it in order to get a good nightís sleep. I suggest that you upgrade the mattress to a memory foam at least 10 inches thick. I would not mind paying for a better mattress."

We only had to lay down on our 2014 mattress once when we first looked at it to know it was garbage. Didn't you even try it out before purchasing?

Several of your other complaints to Keystone sound to me like they are things that should have all been observed and taken into consideration prior to purchasing your new Montana:

"The bedroom could use another cabinet with a mirror on it instead of just a mirror. As full timers we need and use all of the storage space we can get."

"The cabinet under the sink could use a shelf. This would allow us to make better use of the cabinet space."

"There is a major lack of cabinet storage in this area. You redesigned the cabinets around the walls above the windows. When you removed a section of three cabinets and made the window above the table bigger you did not think about the loss of storage."

"The island was reduced in size and the cabinet was removed again reducing our storage area. The smaller island makes food preparation difficult. The sink has also been reduced in size."

"The entertainment area has been redesigned and not for the better. The shelves on the sides canít hold anything while traveling. So we must add another step in our getting ready to move the RV."

"The dining table has been made smaller and no drawer."

"The other problem is that the storage space has been reduced by about 1/3 when compared to our old Montana."

"The items we covered in this letter were not noticeable until we stared transferring our items into the new trailer nor I am sure all we will find in the future."

I don't mean to be critical of your post. If you purchased the unit "sight unseen" I could understand how some of these issues could be missed. When we first looked at our new 3725RL we spent time inside trying to figure out how things would fit and if it would work for us as full timers.

I suspect any Keystone RV representative who reads your letter will immediately wonder "why did they buy this model in the first place".
__________________
Previous: 2008 Montana 3400RL & 2014 3725RL
Current: Full Time F350 pulling SOB Toy Hauler
JandC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2015, 07:32 AM   #8
cavalry6
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Artesia
Posts: 5
M.O.C. #17458
We didn't notice the changes like we should have. It wasn't until we tried to move out of our 2013 that the changes were not to our liking. Some is mine but some is Montana's.
cavalry6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2015, 09:07 AM   #9
bigskyjimmy
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Washington Coast
Posts: 2,688
M.O.C. #10696
Some of your concerns I get ,the toilet leak ,no whisper A/C in the bedroom, sorry But it sounds like you just picked the wrong floorplan for your needs, Our 3735MK has MASSIVE storage and cupboard space and Pantry and as far as build Quality my 2015 is better in every way compared to my 2012 and that is saying a lot because my 2012 was a Great RV,WE took ALOT of time deciding on the floorplan that would fit our Fulltime needs and so far the last 7 months of ownership on our 2015 have been a great EXCEPT for the Stupid Toilt and we are Happy campers,and by the way Redwood,Jayco and Open Range cheaply made?????? we looked at all them and I would not call them that IMO
__________________
[
bigskyjimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2015, 03:30 PM   #10
Bigboomer
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Livingston
Posts: 1,150
M.O.C. #12333
Mark,

I must say that I can understand if there are issues with workmanship and broken or damaged items found during PDI but I have to agree with Joe and Jimmy and state that your comments about the other issues like storage, design function, etc. should have been carefully planned and thought out as to what you need vs. what the rig had. Throwing it back on Montana for something you should have noticed during your initial walk through before you even thought about buying it is a bit disingenuous.

We are nowhere near the norm but we measured all our cabinets for the old rig and went through the new potential rig with a fine toothed comb and measured and checked everything before we decided it was right for us and suited our needs.

The folks at Montana are probably going to ask if you bought this trailer in the middle of the night with no lights on got it home and then figured out it was not for you.

Good luck!

Les
__________________
Les and Sue Young, 2009 Int 4400 LP, 2020 DRV Mobile Suites [/url] https://ramblingrvrat.blogspot.com/2019/11/freedom-from-grid-rambling-rv-rats.html[/url]
Bigboomer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2015, 11:27 AM   #11
Mynabird
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rapid City
Posts: 931
M.O.C. #8757
Sadly, last year at the rally, we noticed that the floor plans lacked the word... F U N C T I O N A L! . They seemed to be more focused on quality....and (to this "senior/mature" woman)......... And what they called quality was no where near the meaning of quality in our book. .

So, though we thought ...about making a change last year.... We quickly chose not to. . Needless to say.. I was very disappointed.

As an after thought also... We were told "everyone wants side-aisles". So they were changing all the plans to side-aisle. We DEFINITELY DO NOT want side-aisle. So we keep, they loose.

Mynabird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2015, 03:48 AM   #12
bshgto
Montana Master
 
bshgto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hagerstown
Posts: 735
M.O.C. #16013
With all the problems that came with my new HC Montana and all the mods and changes I have made to suit my wife and I we still like the camper. I just consider it part of game. So take it or leave it is the bottom line. Another brand? Nope there all the same, different camper same issues If you like the color and the basic layout that`s the one you buy then change to suit that personal opinion. Every house I ever sold was not the same as when I bought it.
__________________
2018.5 3791 Rear Den Montana, on the lake
Electric Brakes ..... Disk Brakes, it`s the only way
2018 F350 Ford 6.7 Dually 4:10`s w/bags Top Dog (payload 5595 lbs)
Reese Goosebox Mor/Ryde SRE 4000 X Factors Monroe shocks.... real smooth ride
bshgto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2015, 03:00 AM   #13
mobil
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Louisville
Posts: 159
M.O.C. #10437
We too have noticed what we considered "shortcomings" in the new Montanas. We want to replace our 2010 3665 with an updated model with levelup and a few other goodies. We weren't even considering any other brand until we dug further into our research and then actually looked at a few. So now we have a SOB on order from a company with a reputation for better and more responsive customer service, which we consider as important as floor plan design. I think their quality and finish details has surpassed the Montana(just our opinion + we didn't have to add an extra package to get a molded back cap). Their price structure is very close to the Montana(not a H**** L*** product). We think Keystone needs to listen to their customers more than their bean counters + we think too many companies promote brand loyalty(just a marketing "hook") above customer loyalty.
mobil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 04:34 AM   #14
FordMan1966
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Maryville
Posts: 144
M.O.C. #15933
We love our 2015 3611RL Legacy. This is our 4 Montana with a short move to a 2013 Landmark that had as many problems or more than you mentioned everytime we went out camping in it. That is when we decided to trade for another Montana to get away from all of the problems. All is well so far.
I did replace my Thetford Toilet that would not hold water with a Dometic that is great.
FordMan1966 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 07:31 AM   #15
waynemoore
Montana Master
 
waynemoore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Lake Havasu City AZ.
Posts: 1,812
M.O.C. #10552
We are on our 3rd Keystone 2 Mountineers and our new 3582RL Montana. We have had very few problems with all three. We do travel a lot ( 8000 mile trip planed for this fall). Plus I live in it for about 7 month a year. Most mods and minor problems I can handle but have had them back to a dealer for some repairs. But all and all I an very happy with my Keystone.
__________________
Wayne and Ann Moore
2015 Ford F-350 King Ranch
Firestone air bags, bed saver.
Add 40 GAL tank in bed.
waynemoore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2015, 04:20 PM   #16
swanny
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bangor
Posts: 770
M.O.C. #8816
face it their getting cheaper and cheaper with a all the components they can. the name of the game is the bottom line. and as long as they keep selling this way they will keep getting worse. buying and fixing shouldn't be the norm.
swanny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2015, 04:22 PM   #17
swanny
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bangor
Posts: 770
M.O.C. #8816
face it their getting cheaper and cheaper with a all the components they can. the name of the game is the bottom line. and as long as they keep selling this way they will keep getting worse.
swanny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2015, 03:16 PM   #18
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
I expected better when going from a 2006 3400 to 2013 3402 Big Sky. It did not happen and it is my bad as I should have known better.
richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2015 Montana HC 310RE Bushed.ca Repairs & Service 4 06-12-2016 05:41 PM
Winterizing a 2015 Montana Help RKassl Repairs & Service 5 10-04-2015 09:57 AM
2015 montana HC 305RL greenmachine What I'd like to say if... 4 02-11-2015 03:10 AM
2015 Montana 3850FL CalandLinda General Discussions about our Montanas 7 01-12-2015 04:14 AM
2015 Montana and Big Sky packwood2 General Discussions about our Montanas 0 09-06-2014 01:55 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.