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Old 10-25-2014, 06:56 AM   #1
bikefever
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3402 Gross Weight

We have a 2014 Model 3402RL where the gross weight of 16,000#. I noticed that the specs for the 2015 Model 3402RL has a gross weight of 16,625. Axles appear the same as well as the suspension. Does any one know what Keystone did, if anything, that allows for a higher gross weight?
 
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Old 10-25-2014, 09:26 AM   #2
Overlord
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Tires?
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Old 10-25-2014, 10:04 AM   #3
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Didn't Montana go to 7,000 lb rated axles some time ago? This means that one can carry 14,000 lbs easily over the axles. Since the pin weight for a residential 5er allows between 18% to 25% this means the TV could easily carry the 2,100 to 3,500 lbs on the pin (which yields 16,100 to 17,500 range for a GTWR of 16,625). I'd be more concerned that the TV can carry that pin weight. I know my F250/350 couldn't do it (especially since this will then exceed the GVWR for my truck. My GVWR is less than the 8,500 lb truck can tow which only leaves allowance of about 14,000 lb trailer. This is why I can't get a new Montana, because I'd probably have to buy a new TV, too, probably a dually.

Of course one can assume the tires at the end of each axle also satisfy the weight rating for 7,000 lb axles, but the tire brand would be my concern.

Bikefever - I didn't research it, but your 2008 Chevy TV may be okay. Check its rear axle and combined weight ratings to be sure. Then you can only weigh at the scales to know for sure. You are talking about 625 more lbs than what you have.
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Old 10-25-2014, 11:28 AM   #4
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In late 2014 keystone moved to an even cheaper title, dropping the marathons for trail kings.
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Old 10-25-2014, 12:33 PM   #5
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Our 3402 has 7,000 lb axles, but on the tag, are de-rated to 6750 lbs, due to the Marathons. G614's were an option, but don't know if the tag would have been different if the rig was ordered with the heavier tires. As delivered, this one has a 15,805 GVWR, for the 2012 model. They are slowly creeping up in weight.
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Old 10-25-2014, 01:34 PM   #6
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We have the G614 tires installed. Ours has the 7000# axles and believe so does th 2015. Correct the 2014 has the axles de rated, perhaps the 2015 removed that limitation, without making any changes. The question is what did Keystone do to increase the gross weight between 2014 and2015by 600#?
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Old 10-25-2014, 02:38 PM   #7
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According to two dealers websites the 2015 3402RL is no longer available
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Old 10-26-2014, 04:01 AM   #8
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The 3400rl is not around any more. At the keystone tour this past rally, I asked them about the 3402 and they said they are going to continue to make them and was one of their better selling floor plans.
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Old 10-26-2014, 04:13 AM   #9
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The frame on my 2012 3400RL is a 10 inch frame the 2014 3402 has a 12 inch frame and is 10 inches longer. Most customers are get the auto level system. Just those 3 items will add 3-4 hundred pounds. IMHO...
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Old 10-26-2014, 06:56 PM   #10
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My 2012 - 3402RL has a GVWR of 15,805, the Keystone website shows the 2014 @ an even 16,000. There are no specs on the website for the 2015 that I can find.

All units with 7000# axles that are using load range "E" tires such as Marathons have the GAWR reduced, that is required by law since the capacity cannot exceed that of any components of the axles including the tires.

If the unit is shipped from the factory with load range "G" tires as in G614's, the sticker will then show the GAWR as 7000# not the de-rated 6750# as on my 2012 with Marathons when shipped.

The larger frame will increase the overall weight somewhat as does any additions such as second air, level up, WD and so on. The shipping weight should include those items if factory installed.

According to the Keystone specs the 2012 is 39'1" and the 2014 is 39'2", that is only 1" longer not 10".


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Old 10-28-2014, 03:56 AM   #11
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I just checked the sticker on my 2014 3402RL made 11/11/2013. GVWR is 16000 LBs. The sticker says the axle is rated 6750 because of the factory installed Trail Kings. The sticker on the axles says rated 7000 LBs and I had the dealer swap out the TKs for the G614s and 110 LB rated rims before I picked it up.
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Old 10-28-2014, 11:04 AM   #12
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by jfaberna

I just checked the sticker on my 2014 3402RL made 11/11/2013. GVWR is 16000 LBs. The sticker says the axle is rated 6750 because of the factory installed Trail Kings. The sticker on the axles says rated 7000 LBs and I had the dealer swap out the TKs for the G614s and 110 LB rated rims before I picked it up.
The de-rated GAWR on your sticker is because it left the factory with "E" rated Trail King tires, the dealer cannot change that sticker and I cannot change mine in spite of the fact I have G614's installed. If they had been installed at the factory the sticker would reflect the "axle" rating of 7000# because that then becomes the lowest capacity of the components, the G614's at 3750 put them above the rating of the axle but the sticker cannot exceed the lowest component.

Even if you put 8000# axles on the trailer the GAWR could not exceed the capacity of the tires, this means with G614's on a 8000# axle the GAWR could be no more than 7500#.



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Old 10-28-2014, 11:18 AM   #13
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Bad info once again. "E" rated ST tire are rated at 3520, so, they exceed the 7000 lb limit. And trailer is rated at 16,000. I know this is correct because I am standing here looking at the sticker on 2015 Mountaineer. I replaced the tire prior to taking delivery. But it did arrive with ST "E" tires and a 16,OOO GVWR, and 7,000 GAWR each.
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Old 10-28-2014, 12:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by grayghost03

Bad info once again. "E" rated ST tire are rated at 3520, so, they exceed the 7000 lb limit. And trailer is rated at 16,000. I know this is correct because I am standing here looking at the sticker on 2015 Mountaineer. I replaced the tire prior to taking delivery. But it did arrive with ST "E" tires and a 16,OOO GVWR, and 7,000 GAWR each.
Goodyear Marathon 235/16 ST E rated tires are 3420# NOT 3520#.
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Old 10-28-2014, 01:48 PM   #15
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by jhudson

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by grayghost03

Bad info once again. "E" rated ST tire are rated at 3520, so, they exceed the 7000 lb limit. And trailer is rated at 16,000. I know this is correct because I am standing here looking at the sticker on 2015 Mountaineer. I replaced the tire prior to taking delivery. But it did arrive with ST "E" tires and a 16,OOO GVWR, and 7,000 GAWR each.
Goodyear Marathon 235/16 ST E rated tires are 3420# NOT 3520#.
Trailers are being delivered now with TOW Max rate at 3520#, so they are not derateing the axles.
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Old 10-28-2014, 03:08 PM   #16
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Still a junk tire (nicknamed on another forum "Blow Max", just a higher rating. Maybe they'll last a couple of miles longer.
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Old 10-28-2014, 03:46 PM   #17
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by mhs4771

Still a junk tire (nicknamed on another forum "Blow Max", just a higher rating. Maybe they'll last a couple of miles longer.
Yep, that's why I replaced them before taking delivery. Not talking quality or opinion of quality, it was stated in an earlier post stated "All units with 7000# axles that are using load range "E" tires such as Marathons have the GAWR reduced" All units with "E" rated tire are not reduced such as Power Max. Again we tend to throw a really big loop on this forum and try to encompass an entire "E" rating as requiring to axle derating, many ST tires such as Kenda, Briway, Maxxis, and others would not require a derated axle. As far as the tires I've seen come thru the dealer on the Montana line, only the Marathons require derated axles. Now don't read this as saying I think any of the factory tire are good choices. I can see problems with many of them. But then again I have seen numerous blowout reviews and have seen one personally on the great G614. However the G614 is my personal choice. The best can fail due to manufacture defect, road hazard, etc. But it takes a real special tire to fail more then it succeeds, which appear to be the case with Marathons and Power Max, when used on these heavier trailers.
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Old 10-28-2014, 07:20 PM   #18
Irlpguy
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Originally posted by Grayghost03
Quote:
quote:
Yep, that's why I replaced them before taking delivery. Not talking quality or opinion of quality, it was stated in an earlier post stated "All units with 7000# axles that are using load range "E" tires such as Marathons have the GAWR reduced" All units with "E" rated tire are not reduced such as Power Max. Again we tend to throw a really big loop on this forum and try to encompass an entire "E" rating as requiring to axle derating, many ST tires such as Kenda, Briway, Maxxis, and others would not require a derated axle. As far as the tires I've seen come thru the dealer on the Montana line, only the Marathons require derated axles. Now don't read this as saying I think any of the factory tire are good choices. I can see problems with many of them. But then again I have seen numerous blowout reviews and have seen one personally on the great G614. However the G614 is my personal choice. The best can fail due to manufacture defect, road hazard, etc. But it takes a real special tire to fail more then it succeeds, which appear to be the case with Marathons and Power Max, when used on these heavier trailers.
If you are referring to my post, neither I nor anyone else stated that "all" E rated tires require the axles to be de-rated. It is only in the last year or so that the capacity of Trail King and some of the other Chinese "E" rated tires have had the increased capacity. My comment was to clarify the reason the axles were de-rated. The Marathon and some other ST tires still have a rating of 3420.

The tires now being put on the Montana's may have a 3520 rating but they are still a 10 ply rating and the max capacity is still at 80 psi. The tires have not changed in my opinion, just the rating to satisfy the required axle rating for the RV industry, at a cheap price.

A rating of 3520 puts them a whopping 40# over the axle rating, do you think this is accidental.

You are right about one thing, any tire can fail no matter the cost or manufacturer and the cheap "E" rated Chinese ST tires do seem to fail more than any others.




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