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Old 08-18-2014, 12:44 PM   #1
snowbirds R us
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black tank sprayer

After I drained the black tank, I hooked up the water line to the black tank sprayer fitting. Turned on the water and immediately water started raining down from the top. I have taken off the white covers in that area and found the lines to go straight up into the wall behind the shower. I can't exactly see where the water is coming from or where the lines go, but I can see it spraying when I look through cracks in the wall. How does one access this area to do repairs? The only way I can see to do this is to pull the shower out. Hopefully there is a better way, if not I will probably have to disable this feature. This unit is an '08 3400RL. Any ideas folks?
 
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Old 08-18-2014, 01:05 PM   #2
bigred715
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As a lot of members with this problem you will probably have to cut an access hole to reach the faulty valve that is leaking. My 3000RK has the valve located behind shower. I would have to cut an access door behind TV compartment, open the pocket door to get to valve. I instead reached behind shower plumbing and cut out the valve and used shark bite fittings to reassemble without valve in basement area. I eliminated the check valve completely.
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Old 08-18-2014, 01:11 PM   #3
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On your 08 3400 the valve should be located in the wall between your shower and the kitchen pantry. Open pantry and look on wall for access covers made of plastic. My 08 3400 had this and the valve was located behind the cover. Should be an easy fix. Much easier to just delete the valve and install one of the screw-on faucet type at the black tank hook-up in the convenience center. Cost should be less than $10 if you do it yourself.
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Old 08-18-2014, 01:27 PM   #4
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Thank you David. I feel like a fool now. I took that access cover off inside the pantry and felt up, left and right and got punctured by screws along the way. It seems I never ran my hand downward, and that is where it was at. I heard other people talk of this problem but I couldn't find anything in the "search" function. I figured there had to be an easier way. I'm sitting here with a red face, embarrassed.
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Old 08-18-2014, 03:19 PM   #5
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Don't be. It's a common problem but one would think Keystone would find an easier access place to put a unit they know has a high failure rate. Of course putting a good valve in there would be the real answer.
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Old 08-18-2014, 03:35 PM   #6
richfaa
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Like you that valve failed on our 06 3400 and when I removed the cover in the pantry there was nothing there. The hole they cut in the wall missed the valve by about 8 inches to the left. Replaced with a quality valve and never had another problem. My 13 3402, same floor plan has no access panel in the pantry so I wonder were the valve is as I know it will fail.
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Old 08-18-2014, 04:12 PM   #7
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Different model, but similar arrangement. Mine between the shower and entry door cabinet. You can see where they installed a panel, and where the valve actually was located.

I reached in, found the valve, determined where I needed to cut a new hole, and used a hand saw to cut a square I thought would be large enough.
I ordered an exact replacement valve (made of clear plastic), but when I received it I could see tiny stress (?) cracks all around it. So I sent it back and eliminated the valve. And use an external backflow preventer.
I bought some trim material and made a picture frame around the piece I cut out and it looks like it was factory made for it.
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Old 08-18-2014, 06:01 PM   #8
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It is not a good idea to delete the valve entirely, the valve is actually called a vacuum breaker and is used to prevent drawing contaminated water from the black tank to the water supply. The vacuum breaker id installed as the high point in the system. After repairing the leak install a back-flow preventer at the hose inlet in the convenience center, this will prevent the nasty black water from siphoning back and contaminating the city's water supply.
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Old 08-18-2014, 06:15 PM   #9
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Thanks for the input everyone. It sure saved me a lot of grief. I am going to eliminate the valve and put in an external backflow preventer like a lot of people have done already.
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Old 08-19-2014, 01:46 AM   #10
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Farmhawk

It is not a good idea to delete the valve entirely, the valve is actually called a vacuum breaker and is used to prevent drawing contaminated water from the black tank to the water supply. The vacuum breaker id installed as the high point in the system. After repairing the leak install a back-flow preventer at the hose inlet in the convenience center, this will prevent the nasty black water from siphoning back and contaminating the city's water supply.
Wouldn't this be like wearing a belt AND suspenders to hold your pants up...why would you nee both? This water line does not tie-in to the water system anywhere else.
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Old 08-19-2014, 04:46 AM   #11
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Although unlikely, it is possible to siphon black water into the fresh water line without an antisiphon valve under certain conditions. IF the black tank spray nozzle(s) were under water (or at least had black water in the nozzle(s)), AND IF the water shutoff valve to the black tank flush was open, AND IF the fresh water supply were suddenly shutoff causing it to siphon backward, then it could siphon the water back thru the black tank flush line into the fresh water line. Unlikely, but possible.
Normally the black tank flush shutoff valve is not opened until the black tank is drained eliminating the possibility of the nozzle(s) being under water, although there could be black water in the end of the nozzle(s) even after draining if they had been submerged. And normally you would not open the shutoff valve knowing there was no water pressure, although it would be possible to do it without knowing so. If these two occurred and you left the shutoff valve open long enough it would be possible to draw bad water back into the fresh water line.
If water pressure was lost after flush had started, then the nozzle(s) should already be cleared minimizing the possibility.
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Old 08-19-2014, 06:26 AM   #12
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I wonder if there can be a forum topic where people can post common problems and solutions like the one above. It sure would help everyone and especially a new Montana owner for sure to be able to go to one place instead of being blindsided and then searching for solutions.
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Old 08-19-2014, 06:42 AM   #13
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by snowbirds R us

...I heard other people talk of this problem but I couldn't find anything in the "search" function...
The Search function (which is working once again thank goodness) has a little check box on the "Search In:" line called "Archived Posts". Apparently, almost all postings made prior to January 2014 have been "Archived". These earlier postings often contain the answers to your problems. By default, the Search function does not look at Archived postings. You have to ask. If you don't find an answer the first time you Search, check the "Archived Posts" box and you will be pleasantly surprised.
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Old 08-20-2014, 03:30 PM   #14
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I just did this same repair on our 2011 3400RL. Much easier than I expected once I figured it out. Here is the post: http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...ad.php?t=59154
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