Frame Question (Goshen Attendees??) - Montana Owners Club

bncinwv · 10-22-2013, 01:45 AM

Since the ugly beast known as frame-flex seems to have once again reappeared in a few forum postings, it got me to pondering, which as all know can be dangerous on my part. With the introduction of the new larger 12" frames, my curiosity was piqued as to whether the front area design, that seems to be the primary culprit for frame-flex, has been enhanced as well? Those that went on the factory tour may have first hand visual experience if by chance, they happened to notice the frame construction. Any thoughts?
Bingo

bullroc3 · 10-22-2013, 02:09 AM

Personally, I wouldn't be able to tell the new from the old. They all look good on the tour, bright and shiny. Gives you the thought "What could go wrong?".

K0LCB · 10-22-2013, 02:11 AM

I don't know what the old ones looked like, but the ones I saw looked good, good welds, lots of bracing and reinforcing on the gooseneck

Chip · 10-22-2013, 02:15 AM

I was just looking an my pictures from several years and I don't see a difference in the front design.

I am guessing they went to the 12" frame due to the longer heaver units.

Bruce Perlee · 10-22-2013, 02:39 AM

Does anyone know the reason for the switch from 10" to 12" frame?

richfaa · 10-22-2013, 03:17 AM

I asked the question of the Lippert folks at the rally. Where do the specs of these frames come from and what is the failure rate of the frames. He said The manufacturer and Lippert get together to determine the frame spec's. He said that according to Warranty claims the frame failure rate is less than 1.5%.
I know nothing about welding or frame construction.

Champ_49 · 10-22-2013, 03:31 AM

I may be a little out of line here, forgive me if you would. But I think this is worth hearing about no matter what brand of trailer as I have SOB, but it's a Lippert frame. I had the frame flex and basically broken frame on my unit also. I have the 12" frame so that didn't help in the frame flex area. When I took it to the factory to have it repaired I asked the ones repairing my unit why this is happening. His answer was, if we knew it wouldn't be happening!! So that right there is about as honest as you can be because this has been going on way to many yrs. to not have engineers not figure it out in my opinion.

My guess is to light of a trailer we are asking for so we can pull it with a light duty truck.

Dave

Mrs. CountryGuy · 10-22-2013, 03:32 AM

Rich, you said:

according to Warranty claims the frame failure rate is less than 1.5%.

That is consistent with the number we were quoted back in 1990 when the frame on our TT lost it's camber.

I am not sure if I am impressed or not, that the number has not changed in over 20 years.

bncinwv · 10-22-2013, 03:42 AM

Which in my mind leads to the next question that we may have discussed previously but is worth revisiting. In order for failures, flexing, weld breaking, etc. to occur, there have to be concentrated forces applied to that particular area (pinbox). Obviously, there is a cantilever effect at play with regards to the forces that have to be present at the hitch which have to be directly related to the pin weight. I have always wondered if the road impacts at the hitch contribute to the forces applied at the pin? Logic would lead me to say that the forces could well be amplified as a result of a "fixed" hitch. I have stated before that I have plans of supplementing the Mor-Ryde pinbox with an air-cushioned hitch which in my mind would have to cushion these road effects. I have never experienced frame-flex problems on either of our rigs, but if there is any way to insure that I don't on the future rig, I am willing to purchase that "insurance policy." The drawback, is simply the fact that if it helps, it will take time to reason whether this approach helps.
Bingo

**DQDick** · 10-22-2013, 04:12 AM

Certainly worth experimenting with. I'm like the others, the frame was a little bigger, but the construction looked to me to be the same.

bethandkevin · 10-22-2013, 04:17 AM

JMO here. I tend to believe "bounce" has more to do with frame and or weld failure than does road "shock". That said, does anyone know where the failures occur? If it is at the weld, then the failure is in the welder. First welding class I ever took I learned the weld should always be stronger than the material welded.

maximo · 10-22-2013, 04:35 AM

What year did they start using the 12 " frame? Over the years have they moved the mounting location of the axles forward or rearward to change the weight on the pin? I know on some large truck trailers they can move the axles on the trailer to the back or front depending on the weight of the load.

Frank

Chip · 10-22-2013, 04:49 AM

Our first Montana had broken welds which I believe were directly related to road impact and dips. I know this because I check my rig over after every trip and after every severe road encounter so I check welds and caulking.

Our current Montana has had flex but no broken welds yet. Fixed three times so far.

I just replaced my hitch with a Trailer Saver Air Hitch which I hope will help our Montana survive. So far I can report the Montana rides much easier. It is insulated greatly from road shock and dips.

Time will tell.

bncinwv · 10-22-2013, 04:54 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Chip

Our first Montana had broken welds which I believe were directly related to road impact and dips. I know this because I check my rig over after every trip and after every severe road encounter so I check welds and caulking.

Our current Montana has had flex but no broken welds yet. Fixed three times so far.

I just replaced my hitch with a Trailer Saver Air Hitch which I hope will help our Montana survive. So far I can report the Montana rides much easier. It is insulated greatly from road shock and dips.

Time will tell.

Thanks Drew, confirmation that I am possibly heading in the right direction.
Bingo

Recumbent · 10-22-2013, 06:22 AM

Our 3725 has the heaviest pen weight of all Montana models, and I notice there are two larger tubular beams along with several small tube beams in the ceiling of the basement. The two bigger beams I think are not found on most other models. These beams reach from behind the basement and forward into the pen area. This could be a strengthening of the frame or just a redistribution of weight with the little tubes being slightly smaller than observed in other models. We have no frame flex to date, but we do have a TrailAir Triglide hitch that absorbs most of the road shock.

Mrs. CountryGuy · 10-22-2013, 06:57 AM

Our 3295 has a pin weight of 3200 to 3300.

It is our opinion, worth less than 2 cents, that an air pin or air hitch to protect the frame is mandatory.

Yea, that's our stand. Simple. Period.

It is also our opinion, worth less than the one above, that the MorRyde does little to protect your Montana from frame damage. The ride may be nice(r), but, it does not protect your rig when you are towing and hit those lovely 2 to 4 inch drop offs at the ends of a bridge.

I'm wearing flame resistant clothes - - and, I am ducking!

CountryGuy, I'll go tell him to add his flame resistant clothes to the layers today!

Jay Bird · 10-22-2013, 07:01 AM

Bingo. I believe you are heading in the right direction. I have had our 2007 in three times for flex. I feel that it was caused from those instances where we experienced a lot of highway bounce especially at bridges. The MorRyde reduces chucking but does nothing for the up and down movement of the front end. When the hitch pin is in the hitch without an air ride cushion you are pulling against an object (Hitch mounted in the bed of a truck) that has no give on the upward pull of the rig. If the bounce is severe enough (and I have hit a few) the entire truck bed leaves the road and then you have that full load on with a down pull while the rig is in an upward movement.

bncinwv · 10-22-2013, 07:04 AM

Carol,
Regardless of how little value you elect to place on your opinions, rest assured that both yours and Al's opinions are indeed valued as well as respected on my behalf. I have went over six years without an air hitch, but I will change that in the coming spring. I do believe it will help in the situations you describe as well as others (like the aforementioned WV Turnpike).
Bingo

CRUZIN 2 · 10-22-2013, 07:05 AM

2x on Carols comment.

mhs4771 · 10-22-2013, 11:10 AM

Just an opinion for a former Montana owner (now an SOB owner). TrailAir/Lippert now markets a combo Pin Box, called the Tri-Glide, which combines the features of the originl TrailAir pin box with the Demco Glide system. Providing an Air Bag to soften the up and down, while the Glide helps with the Back and forth.

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