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Old 10-22-2013, 12:13 AM   #41
Phil P
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by richfaa


Thor industries is the parent company of Airstream,Crossroads,Dutchman,Heartland,Keystone, Livin light and Thor Motor coach and all of the many brands and models within each manufacturer. That will narrow your choices considerably and save much time in choosing a manufacturer.
Hi

The quality of all of those brands and their commercial bus division has gone downhill in the last 6 years.

There are 5 companies not owned by Thor. We have had 4 of them look at our Montana and 3 of them gave us a price to duplicate the Montana that was less by a few thousand dollars than what I have paid for this unit after repairing the warranty items denied by Keystone. One was a couple of grand over that dollar figure.

All of them agreed to give me all construction drawings (blue prints) with the trailer including the wiring diagrams. Three of them agreed to let my structures engineer review their construction drawings before I make a deposit.

Two of the five we will not consider because of the frame construction.

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Old 10-22-2013, 02:32 AM   #42
Chip
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This could be the reason they went to the 12" frame.

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Old 10-22-2013, 02:43 AM   #43
Bruce Perlee
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Does anyone know the REAL reason for the switch from 10" to 12" frame.
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Old 10-22-2013, 03:22 AM   #44
richfaa
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Phil P

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by richfaa


Thor industries is the parent company of Airstream,Crossroads,Dutchman,Heartland,Keystone, Livin light and Thor Motor coach and all of the many brands and models within each manufacturer. That will narrow your choices considerably and save much time in choosing a manufacturer.
Hi

The quality of all of those brands and their commercial bus division has gone downhill in the last 6 years.

There are 5 companies not owned by Thor. We have had 4 of them look at our Montana and 3 of them gave us a price to duplicate the Montana that was less by a few thousand dollars than what I have paid for this unit after repairing the warranty items denied by Keystone. One was a couple of grand over that dollar figure.

All of them agreed to give me all construction drawings (blue prints) with the trailer including the wiring diagrams. Three of them agreed to let my structures engineer review their construction drawings before I make a deposit.

Two of the five we will not consider because of the frame construction.

Phil P
You have made a wised choice Phil in not going with a Thor product.
Keep the forum advised on the product you decide to purchase and the problems you will not have.
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Old 10-22-2013, 03:28 AM   #45
Mrs. CountryGuy
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Just an aside, it seems we have two discussions going here, one surrounding Bruce Perlee, our OP and one surrounding Phil P.

Before my coffee that is a bit befuddling. OHH, I am befuddled much of the time. Never mind - -

Carry on - -
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Old 10-22-2013, 04:14 AM   #46
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Great point Carol we seem to be going in a direction that should have it's own thread.
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Old 10-22-2013, 04:56 AM   #47
Bruce Perlee
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Our experience with Keystone as well as their customer service has been outstanding. They have bent over backwards to resolve any and every problem we have in the past and feel confident they will continue this outstanding service in the future.
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Old 10-22-2013, 07:41 AM   #48
Carole
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I feel sure that someone at Keystone reads the posts on this forum. If they don't they should. I got the impression at the rally that Keystone cares about
Taking care of their customers, at least when you are at the rally. We have had several problems with our 2013 Mountaineer 358 rlt and our dealer has addressed and taken care of them in a very efficient and timely manner. I would like to think that the head honcho at Keystone would contact Bruce personally about this major problem and do everything possible to make things right if this is a Keystone manufacturing defect. Such as this would certainly make me have considerable reason to delay purchasing a Keystone product. If some of you have email addresses of high ups that were at the rally at Keystone, maybe this should be brought to their attention. Bruce, Please keep us posted on your dealings with Keystone about this. Good luck.
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Old 10-22-2013, 07:50 AM   #49
Artemus Gordon
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Something very wrong here! We don't, or at least I don't know entire story. Sorry to be so suspicious but the photos, lack of response with exception of negative Keystone comment. I feel like we are being mislead !
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Old 10-22-2013, 07:52 AM   #50
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It is sad to see the extensive problem that you have Bruce, one which must be addressed by Keystone to your complete satisfaction.

We must all keep in mind that there is going to be some flex in the frames throughout the length when one side experiences a dip or bump not experienced on the other side, as well when those forces that occur at the front of the trailer when we hit a bump or dip also occur at the back of the trailer.

Since Keystone must know that frame flex exits, are they doing everything possible in engineering the units to prevent the obvious damage to the walls such as has occurred to Bruce's unit. The portion of the wall behind the slide openings supports all of the weight of the rear cap and anything that extends beyond the end of the frame which ends before the cap.

These large openings in the walls reduce the structural integrity of the walls by a huge amount, if the welds were poor or the design imperfect at the upper corners of the sidewalls to the rear of the slide opening then this will most certainly be the result.

This problem is ongoing and has been for a long time, we are now seeing it manifested in different area's of the trailers now where it seemingly did not exist before. I don't know what needs to be done to eliminate the problems but it simply cannot continue to affect those that spend big dollars for these units only to have them sit waiting to be repaired.

I feel your pain and applaud you Bruce for your confidence that your problem will be addressed appropriately, my best wishes.



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Old 10-22-2013, 08:30 AM   #51
Mrs. CountryGuy
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Artemus Gordon

I continue to be confused and befuddled,

Who are you expecting a response from?? Who is misleading you?? The original poster? Bruce Perlee, Keystone, Phil P??

OH, yes, me is confused.
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:42 AM   #52
Bruce Perlee
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We spoke with Keystone customer service last week. We have emailed them pictures of the cracks. They made contact with a dealer close to us who will inspect the problem. The first appointment we can get is November 8th. Until they inspect it not much can be done.
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:56 AM   #53
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With all of the negative attitudes arising on the forum, we hope that your outcome will be a positive one, and expect to hopefully read about it on the forum later in the next couple of months! I personally am particularly interested in finding out if they can determine the cause and whether there are any preventive measures that might have headed it off.
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Old 10-22-2013, 09:35 AM   #54
Artemus Gordon
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Nobody is being negative? I just believe OP might have downloaded incorrect photos. He has told us he owns a 2012 3750. I went out and took photos of mine. Unless I am blind they don't appear match anything he posted. The photos he posted look older and different! Please look at the first 4 photos on my Photo Bucket. Even my mouldings are different?

http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/Artemus7575/library/
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Old 10-22-2013, 09:55 AM   #55
bncinwv
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I must be totally out in left field here, because other than the slide toppers not being visible (unless he does not have them), the corners look identical to me? I pulled them up side by side for comparison. I will note that his are really close-up pictures which makes the mouldings appear different, but are they? With all that said, DW says I do need glasses, and I say I do not!
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Old 10-22-2013, 09:57 AM   #56
Bruce Perlee
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Artemus, the pictures we took of our 2012 3750fl are taken much closer then the pictures you took. To be able to see the full damage of the cracks you need to zoom in close. As we stated the longest crack is 7" and runs from the top rear corner of the closet slide opening to the rear cap. These pictures plus additional ones were taken to send to Keystone so they could see the extent of the damage. They were sent to them last week.

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Old 10-22-2013, 10:10 AM   #57
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Bruce, we are certainly sorry to see the obvious issues that you have with your unit. Certainly would make any one of us concerned with the quality of the unit we have purchased. That being said, I have confidence that Keystone will step up to the plate and resolve these problems. Glad that you are posting your experiences and for sure please keep us posted as to the outcome. Thanks again!
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Old 10-22-2013, 10:16 AM   #58
Artemus Gordon
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Bruce Perlee

Artemus, the pictures we took of our 2012 3750fl are taken much closer then the pictures you took. To be able to see the full damage of the cracks you need to zoom in close. As we stated the longest crack is 7" and runs from the top rear corner of the closet slide opening to the rear cap. These pictures plus additional ones were taken to send to Keystone so they could see the extent of the damage. They were sent to them last week.

Sounds good! Hope all works out! It's very frustrating I know. As I said before, I have excess 13k miles under my 3750, and my share of slide issues. In every case Keystone was excellent to deal with and stood behind their product! Good luck!
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Old 10-22-2013, 01:48 PM   #59
Phil P
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quote:Originally posted by richfaa

You have made a wised choice Phil in not going with a Thor product.
Keep the forum advised on the product you decide to purchase and the problems you will not have.
Hello ricjfaa

You see I didn’t purchase the Montana because of price. I was on the verge of writing a check for a Class A diesel pusher when my wife looked at one of the Montana’s. I agreed with her that the 5th wheel had more room than a Class A. Then on top of that as the holder of a Cass A CDL with a passenger endorsement I have drive both buses and semi trucks. I prefer the semi over the buss.

I wanted a complete trailer that was usable not a do-it-your-self kit. Unfortunately I let my guard down because of a long social relationship with the sales person, who will no longer talk to me. If he was hard up for money I would have gladly given him a few thousand rather that have him hang me with what he said was a “top of the line” trailer.

Unfortunately I got a do-it-your- self kit from a dealer that did not have a service facility that could finish it. Then withheld information and in some cases lied to keystone about the condition of this unit. Then on top of that it took me 6 months of their butchery for me to finally see their incompetence when their electrician came to the trailer to work on the monitor system and did not have a VOM and then when I loaned him one I had to teach him how to use it.

That’s when I tried to get keystone to give me the name of a dealer that had a good service department.

They refused to do that and belittled me when I made the statement that this dealer had damaged the side of the trailer just changing a tire.

Then when I offered to bring the trailer to them so they could see firsthand what kind of mess I had I was told I would not be allowed in their facility with that trailer. This was a fellow named Mat.

Then when I did take it still in the first year to a Camping World that was a Keystone dealer Keystone refused to pay for the repairs to the Monitor system.

For those of you that have not had these kinds of problem you were lucky to get a good dealer with a good service facility.

For those of you that are having similar problems beware Keystone will back a high volume sales dealer regardless of how many reports or pictures like the ones you see me post you provide to them. Get everything possible in writing. You will need it.

Keystone is a sales oriented company not a service oriented company.

Phil P
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Old 10-22-2013, 03:10 PM   #60
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Sorry to hear of your situation. Very different from our experience. Had several serious problems with our rig and Keystone made good on everything and even found and fixed a couple things that weren't their fault or responsibility. The also approved and provided prompt reimbursement for a warranty problem by a non-Keystone repair facility when no Keystone dealer was available. As far was we're concerned we have a "top of the line rig" and wouldn't trade it for a couple of the high end Class A's(manufacturers you mentioned as quality) that have shown me their problems and shared their frustration. Unfortunately in the RVing business there is a goodly amount of do-it-yourself involved no matter how much you pay for your rig.
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