Weighed the Montana

[jhudson]

2012 Silverado Duramax Extended Cab SWR Dates 9/15/13 and 9/16/13
2014 Montana 3725RL
Ratings: (truck)
GCWR – 24500#
GVWR – 11600#
Rear Axle Rating – 7050#
Front Axle Rating – 6000#
Maximum Trailer Weight – 16900#
Weight station weights: Truck with two Honda 2000 generators, 6 gal of regular fuel, 2 passengers and full tank of diesel.
Steer Axle – 4760#
Drive Axle – 3460#
Gross Weight – 8220#
Weight station weights: Truck and Montana loaded with fuel tank of water, propane tanks full, coach loaded with all gear ready to camp
Steer Axle – 4800#
Drive Axle – 6620#
Trailer Axles – 11260#
Gross Weight – 22680#
Here is my math:
1820# under GCWR (truck)
180# under GVWR (truck)
430# under rear axle rating (truck)
1200# under front axle rating (truck)
3160# for my pin weight which is 21.91% (Montana)
14420# for my gross trailer weight (Montana)
2480# under maximum trailer weight for truck
1580# under Montana’s GVWR

Okay , everything looks good to me. You folks see anything that I missed?
Thanks for your input,

Jay

[Waterbug]

Only your max hitch rating. Awful close if you have a 15k hitch.

[HomeOnTheRoad]

What are the tire weight ratings for FW and pickup?

[bncinwv]

Hmmmmm, all weights are in compliance and yet he is still told that he needs more truck?? The only item of concern is whether or not additional weight will ever be added in the truck? It is very close, I admit, but as far as the weights listed, the truck is marginal, but still good.
Bingo

[exav8tr]

A couple years ago at the University of Idaho camping symposium, we discussed weights very thoroughly. The advice of the instructor who drove OTR trucks and was pulling his 5er, (heavy one but I can't remember the name), with a Peterbilt. His best statement was that a rig that sits close to 100% of weights, will eventually suffer, because every time you hit a bump in the road your load factor increases. His recommendation was no more than 80% leaving a good safety margin, which was why he was driving a Peterbilt.

Another thing I learned about blow outs is both the tires on that side should be replaced as the good tire carries the entire weight and will usually damage the plys on the good tire....

[DQDick]

Loading on the trailer is also something interesting to know. If your ever get around an Escapee park that weighs rigs take it over their weigh station. You can get a weight for each trailer wheel separately. After doing that I rearranged how things were stored in the basement and parts of the rig.

[mail2us]

Tks for sharing Jay. My take is you're fine. Not sure how "marginal" applies.

[Phil P]

Hi

I have one question.

Does the TV have duel wheels?

As for the comment about the truck being marginal.

The truck is designed to carry the load. That designed takes into account the loads imposed by the average road conditions of the US.

That said I have posted elsewhere on this forum that I weight my unit at least once a year and every trip when I have loaded the trailer with the items we carry when on tour for my wife’s hobby.

My weight has never exceeded 23,200 LBs CVW.

The reason for so many weightings is THESE UNITS GAIN WEIGHT over time.

And they do the first weighing when I first bought the trailer was 500Lbs lighter than the last weighing.

Every time you find some “gadget” that you just can’t do without and put it in the drawer by the kitchen sink it adds weight.

I had a boat captain tell me once that he goes thru his boat once a year. Anything he finds that he hasn’t seen in the last year is disposed of.

Now take my advice!!! This could be hazards to your health if you start throwing out your wife’s cook books. Now ask me how I know this…LOL

Phil P

[richfaa]

I have also heard the 80% rule many times from qualified people. I don't know .To comply with that rule most of us including myself would need a bigger truck MDT or HDT to tow these heavier Montana's. I have talked to the truck manufacturers remember we live in Ford Country surrounded by many Ford plants and it is not hard to have Ford designers and engineers among ones friends. I am not a experts but the experts say the trucks spec's are just that. The truck is designed for what those numbers say. Built in fudge factors are a myth. I can give examples of aircraft that have far exceeded their design spec's in unusual conditions and survived. That does not mean that was a built in fudge factor.

We keep to our weights and by the spec's. IMO Jay is within the spec,s . Close but he got the Cigar.

[Chip]

If you were hauling that weight 100% of the time you might want more margin. Actual hook up time for most of us is much lower.

He is more than fine with his weights.

My opinion only.

[Captain Joe]

Thanks Jay for the info and the time and effort to sum it all up.

I do not do anything marginally. If I am told that I am marginal, I try to do what it takes to be above marginal. In other words, I am not a risk taker and believe in the 80% rule, especially with the road conditions in the US today.

IMHO. Joe

[bethandkevin]

Not to high jack Jay's thread, but I have access to certified portable truck scales. I would consider bringing them to the Fall Rally if anyone thought there might be interest.

[Irlpguy]

I must thank and congratulate you Jay for the very nicely detailed accounting of your weights. It is interesting to compare them to mine even though both our vehicles are different.

I am not sure it is possible to attain an 80% margin with any of the heaviest Montana's unless you go to a truck like Captain Joe, the important thing is you know you are minimally under specs and can add/load items based on that information. Sadly the greatest majority of owners do not know what their units weigh.

You did not mention your GAWR on your Montana, I suspect if you have 7k axles and Marathon tires were the original tires then your rating on the VIN sticker on the trailer would be 6750 per axle. I wonder if you would mind checking that figure just for my information only.

Keep an eye on the DW as they always seem to find extra things they "must" take along, even if they don't use them....

[jhudson]

quote:Originally posted by Phil P

Hi

I have one question.

Does the TV have duel wheels?

As for the comment about the truck being marginal.

The truck is designed to carry the load. That designed takes into account the loads imposed by the average road conditions of the US.

That said I have posted elsewhere on this forum that I weight my unit at least once a year and every trip when I have loaded the trailer with the items we carry when on tour for my wife’s hobby.

My weight has never exceeded 23,200 LBs CVW.

The reason for so many weightings is THESE UNITS GAIN WEIGHT over time.

And they do the first weighing when I first bought the trailer was 500Lbs lighter than the last weighing.

Every time you find some “gadget” that you just can’t do without and put it in the drawer by the kitchen sink it adds weight.

I had a boat captain tell me once that he goes thru his boat once a year. Anything he finds that he hasn’t seen in the last year is disposed of.

Now take my advice!!! This could be hazards to your health if you start throwing out your wife’s cook books. Now ask me how I know this…LOL

Phil P

No the truck is not a duel wheel, single wheel. But I agree with your statement as to the trailer gaining weight with time. This is my third fifth wheel since 1999. First was a Jayco which I ran for 5 years. It had a bunk house, great for the kids, but kids grow up. Our next was a Titanium which both my wife ran all over the country for 10 years. With the Titanium, storage was always an issue. Our unit didn't have much outside storage, but we had it packed full. I like you always every year run it on the scale to check and sure enough the Titanium had to go on a diet one year. I very much recall that year because I still don't remember how all the "extra" "just in case" stuff got on board. Currently if we are gone for the summer, we plan our gear based on what we will need. We don't take the extra stuff.

That is why I always run the numbers on my units. They do grow, just like us. This weighing of the 3725 Montana, I was concerned about the heavy pin weight from the get go. Even from the specifications, this models pin was heavy. Loaded it still maintains 22 percent on the hitch. I am amazed with my truck though, with a 3160 pin weight it just barely touches the overload springs, this yes is a static load and they will come into play when the load becomes dynamic. The combo sits perfectly level which again impresses me with the truck.

As for driving this unit, I was totally surprised! It tows smoother than my Titanium and I thought the Ti was good. I do burn more fuel though, with the Titanium I averaged 12 mpg, however with the Montana, so far I have done 10.5 mpg. I do not go over 60 miles per hour travel in the right lane and enjoy the views. I am not surprised as it does require more go peddle up the hills and weighs 5680 more pounds than my Titanium.

There is one item that I didn't even think about and that is why I love forums like this. My hitch is the same one I used on my 99 Dodge. It is a 15k unit always maintained and in excellent shape. I think I will be upgrading in the real near future. What would some of you recommend that fit on standard rails?

Thanks for the comments,

Jay

[jhudson]

quote:Originally posted by Irlpguy

I must thank and congratulate you Jay for the very nicely detailed accounting of your weights. It is interesting to compare them to mine even though both our vehicles are different.

I am not sure it is possible to attain an 80% margin with any of the heaviest Montana's unless you go to a truck like Captain Joe, the important thing is you know you are minimally under specs and can add/load items based on that information. Sadly the greatest majority of owners do not know what their units weigh.

You did not mention your GAWR on your Montana, I suspect if you have 7k axles and Marathon tires were the original tires then your rating on the VIN sticker on the trailer would be 6750 per axle. I wonder if you would mind checking that figure just for my information only.

Keep an eye on the DW as they always seem to find extra things they "must" take along, even if they don't use them....

You guys make me laugh, how true about our DW! My wife is the main reason our old Ti gained weight.....

I do have the 7000# axles and would assume 6750 pounds per axle rating. I will check when home to confirm and get back to you.

Thanks again,

Jay

[richfaa]

Knowing your weights is the important thing. Most rv'ers do not. When we were purchasing our first truck in 2006 we looked long and hard for a HDT but never found one that was suitable or that we could afford. It is a good thing to understand that you are running marginal and have the weigh data to support that .We are running over the 80% rule no doubt about that as most of us are. It is not hard to put additional stress on the rig due to rough roads etc and when you are marginal that amplifies the effects. IMO a lot of the frame flex is due to just that. I have little doubt that the additional stress on my 2006 3400 frame was contributing factor to our frame problems.

Every spring when we return from Florida we literally empty the Montana. Every compartment .We look through every drawer and internal cabinet. Helen's rule is if she want to put another 20lbs on board then 20lbs has to come out.

[jhudson]

quote:Originally posted by HomeOnTheRoad

What are the tire weight ratings for FW and pickup?

The truck tires are 265/70 E load range 18" rated at 3525# at 80psi. This is why the rear axle rating is 7050, limited by the tires.

The trailer tires are ST235/80R16 E load range rated at 3420# at 80 psi.

Plan in future to upgrade tires on Montana? What do you guys think and what tires will work on my wheels. G load range tire pressure is higher and thereby will they be in specifications of wheels?

Jay

[Irlpguy]

Thanks Jay, I am interested in knowing what Keystone did on the VIN sticker.

The reason "we" as well as our RV's gain weight is the DW stuffs us with things we don't really need as well...

Just to keep all your figures correct Jay, when you subtract the empty weight of your truck from the loaded weight you get 3200 lbs, 40 lbs more on the pin than your figures show.

Happy travels.

[jhudson]

quote:Originally posted by Irlpguy

Thanks Jay, I am interested in knowing what Keystone did on the VIN sticker.

The reason "we" as well as our RV's gain weight is the DW stuffs us with things we don't really need as well...

Just to keep all your figures correct Jay, when you subtract the empty weight of your truck from the loaded weight you get 3200 lbs, 40 lbs more on the pin than your figures show.

Happy travels.

Wow, I missed that one. I forgot that 40 pounds went to the front axle. My math was dealing with rear axle only when I figured the pin weight. This is why places like these are so good. Thanks for the catch.

Regards,

Jay

[Phil P]

Jhudson

Looking at the specs for you truck I think you may have the wrong GCW. I think you are using the weight for the DRW truck.

I say this just so you will have a closer look.

A friend of mine has the same truck and was stating the same GCW as you and when we go into his paperwork it turned out he was a few thousand ponds over sating his capacity. Fortunately he was pulling trailers that were much lighter than the capacity of the truck.

As for operating at the design weight limits. Look at the delivery guys. They operate at or very close to the design limit because of the big fuel tank they have in the bed of the truck. They are not over weight because they have to go thru the scales. They average 250,000 miles without major problems.

Richfaa

I have now worked with an FAA DER for 45 years. I use to build the equipment to static load test the structures. All aircraft structures we work on were static loaded to 50% above their design limit and had to return to their original shape when the load was removed.

Flight testing after the aircraft was built or modified was to 50% above their design both “G” loading and weight carrying capacities.

The aircraft I was involved with are classified as light aircraft certified in the “Standard” category. When you get into the larger aircraft certified in the “Transport” category these numbers change some but not a lot.

Aircraft do have design safety margins.

Phil P