RV News RVBusiness 2021 Top 10 RVs of the Year, plus 56 additional debuts and must-see units → ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > GENERAL DISCUSSIONS > Sitting around the Campfire
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-18-2012, 03:24 PM   #61
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,167
M.O.C. #2839
Just a observation,I have been handling firearms since I was 14 and that would be 62 years ago.In NW PA guns were everywhere. There was always a firearm in our home.We used them for hunting, turkey shoots, sport shooting.Carried a 22 revolver when checking our trap lines.We never thought about carrying one for self defense or personal protection...never.It was not a issue.Only is the last 20 years or so and more so in the last 10 years or so has the self defense, personal protection issue come up. I still have a problem convincing myself I need to carry a firearm even though I have the CC permit. I do see society as more violent because the media tells me so every day.Then we have tragedies like the last few days and the media just can't let it go. Knowing that there are mental cases out there looking for their 15 mins of fame or in this case one week of fame makes me nervous and I find myself carrying everywhere and avoiding crowded places. This is just nuts.Don't know what scares me more the nut with a gun or the media.
richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 03:55 PM   #62
CORattler
Montana Master
 
CORattler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 3,335
M.O.C. #10496
A good post & perspective!
I don't hunt anymore but do carry when hiking in remote areas or when I feel the need to do so.
I don't have the agility I once had and don't cast as imposing a demeanor as I once did. For me, it is a small comfort with all the bad guys out there that will do bad things to you & loved ones for the price of a pack of cigarettes.


Quote:
quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Just a observation,I have been handling firearms since I was 14 and that would be 62 years ago.In NW PA guns were everywhere. There was always a firearm in our home.We used them for hunting, turkey shoots, sport shooting.Carried a 22 revolver when checking our trap lines.We never thought about carrying one for self defense or personal protection...never.It was not a issue.Only is the last 20 years or so and more so in the last 10 years or so has the self defense, personal protection issue come up. I still have a problem convincing myself I need to carry a firearm even though I have the CC permit. I do see society as more violent because the media tells me so every day.Then we have tragedies like the last few days and the media just can't let it go. Knowing that there are mental cases out there looking for their 15 mins of fame or in this case one week of fame makes me nervous and I find myself carrying everywhere and avoiding crowded places. This is just nuts.Don't know what scares me more the nut with a gun or the media.
__________________
2010 3150RL
LevelUp, Dual 6 volt batteries, Progressive Industries EMS HW50C, Honda EU2000i Generator, Bridgestone Duravis R250 tires, Torklift Glowstep Revolution Stairs, LED Tail lights
2015 RAM 3500 Laramie SRW LB CC Cummins 6.7L Aisin Trans B&W RVK3600
CORattler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 05:14 PM   #63
DonandBonnie
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Madison
Posts: 1,239
M.O.C. #5906
Here is a point to ponder with the Sandy Hook tragedy. The governor stated that the the shooter ended the carnage and ended his own life when he heard the police approaching. That makes me think that he probably had a fear of the police or what they would do. So from that I would conclude that if the adults in that school could legally conceal carry, the shooter may have had second thoughts about entering that school. I'm thinking that whether weapons were carried or not is irrelevant. If the shooter thought that there could have been weapons present, it may have detered his actions. Again this is a point to ponder.
DonandBonnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 02:21 AM   #64
daily double
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Afton
Posts: 166
M.O.C. #9256
Oklahoma passed a law Nov 1 to legally carry some weapons openly. I don't have any intention of getting a holster that I can carry slung down like Matt Dillon, but I am comfortable in the fact that if my shirt should blow up where somebody could see my sidearm I am legal.
daily double is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 05:27 AM   #65
moutard2
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location:
Posts: 724
M.O.C. #10948
Have a look at this very recent article ...

http://augustafreepress.com/2012/12/...rs-and-canada/

moutard2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 05:42 AM   #66
Gorgeguy
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: The Dalles
Posts: 166
M.O.C. #11255
This is a little long, but with all the hoopla over the Oregon and then Conn. shooting, this was not reported. When the nut jobs know there is a gun out there against them, they stop shooting:

Yesterday, Jason at easybakegunclub.com interviewed Nick Meli, the Oregon
concealed carry permit holder who, as we mentioned earlier, confronted
Clackamas mall killer Jacob Roberts. The article (reprinted here with
permission) reveals new information about Meli's role in the incident.

The news is a funny thing sometimes. When something shocking comes out,
everyone rushes to get more and more information as quickly as possible.
When it comes to active shooter or active gunman situations, that rush for
information often runs into the chaos of the situation. We saw that with
the Newtown, Connecticut shooting where media outlets worldwide put the
picture and information of the wrong person up as the gunman only to have
egg on their face later. In Portland, Oregon, that same rush for
information had the mainstream media skip past the fact that a concealed
carrier confronted an active shooter and caused him to abandon his plans,
run for a service corridor and stairway and kill himself as these shooters
typically do . . .

We saw the story and it's lack of coverage and knew it was absolutely an
important story to get out. It was important for concealed carriers / gun
owners rights and even more important that the full story of what happened
come to life and show that these situations can be stopped quickly by a
determined, well-practiced concealed carrier.

We spoke to Nick Meli, Casey, and Ashley late Sunday and got the full story
direct from the people who were there. . . in that moment with the gunman
still active and approaching. While plenty of people want to second guess,
or make assumptions, we're here to bring the full story to light here and
putting all facts on the table.

On Tuesday evening Casey and Ashley went to the mall with Casey's close
friend Nick and Ashley's 4-month-old son Noah. Ashley's boyfriend (who is
also Casey's brother) works at the mall and the group was waiting for him
to get out of a meeting. They had been in the mall for a short while and
were heading to the food court to get a bite to eat. Just as the group
passed the Macy's Home Store and came to Morgan Jewelers three gunshots
rang out.

What we now know was the beginning of gunman Jacob Tyler Roberts's shooting
spree came as a complete shock to everyone. Nick, holding young Noah at the
time, turned to Casey and said, "Are you serious?!?". Casey's simple
answer? "Yes". As Ashley told us, Nick tossed Noah to her and drew his
concealed carry weapon in a single motion.

Not believing the shots to be real Ashley wondered if it was possible the
mall was doing active shooter training, something her boyfriend said they
had done in the evenings before. Then a long series of 10-15 gunshots rang
out. "Once I saw Casey under the jewelry counter and heard the other shots,
I knew it was real," Ashley told us.

Holding young Noah, Ashley's first reaction was to turn her back to the
gunfire and use her body to shield young Noah. Casey yelled at Ashley to
get down so Ashley crawled under the jewelry counter, placing Noah between
the two of them to keep him safe. As the girls took cover Nick, with his
gun drawn, moved behind a pillar and looked towards the shots -- and saw
the gunmen moving towards them.

While keeping eyes on the gunman, Nick told the girls to find better cover
-- the counter they were under was just glass held aloft by metal legs.

Casey got to her feet and unlocked and opened the half door to get behind
the store counter. She then told the others, "follow me". In the back area
of the jewelry store the girls found a closet sized bathroom and Ashley,
Noah, and Casey crammed in, along with four other people who had been
trapped in the open. Once in the relative safety of the bathroom one of the
women, a Morgan Jewelers employee, asked Casey why Nick had a gun. Casey's
answer? "He works for a security company. He's one of the good guys".

That's when the girls realized Nick had not gone to cover with them and was
still faced with the gunman. . . and that Ashley's boyfriend was somewhere
in the mall as well -- in his meeting. All the while, young Noah is crying.
Knowing the gunman was still outside and not wanting to be found, Ashley
started feeding Noah to keep him calm and keep him from making any noise.

Knowing the girls were more secure, Nick was now alone and the gunman was
still approaching. Like most malls, Clackamas Town Center's second floor
has walkways by the storefronts with an open middle area so that light gets
through to the bottom floor. The gunman was across that opening from Nick
and continued to approach. Nick noted that the gunman seemed unfamiliar
with the rifle we now know was stolen. Instead of clearing a malfunction
cleanly, the gunman was slapping the gun and pulling the charging handle
with seemingly no plan in mind.

As the gunman came closer, he turned to cross a walkway bridging the open
space and connecting the two sides of the mall so he could continue his
rampage inside the large Macy's Home Store on the other side -- right where
Nick was standing. Nick lined put his front site on the man's head and put
his finger on the trigger. Nick has extensive firearms experience with both
rifles and handguns, at the range of approximately 15-20 yards, this was a
shot he knew he could make, and then. . . movement from behind the shooter,
inside of Charlotte Russe.

As all firearms owners know, Colonel Jeff Coopers Rule #4 is to know your
target and what is behind it. Now Nick knew for sure that, while he had a
good target, what was behind it were innocent people who were terrified. He
removed his finger from the trigger while keeping the gun on the gunman.

Then a dangerous confrontation got worse. Nick heard the distinctive sound
of a malfunction being cleared in the rifle and saw the gunman reach for
another magazine. As the gunman was inserting the fresh magazine, Nick
quickly backed into the Macy's Home Store and took cover while keeping his
eyes on the gunman. Despite being outgunned, Nick stayed in cover but
visible to the gunman.

Knowing he had an armed person in the mall and that this was no longer his
gun-free zone, the gunman avoided the Macy's Home Store and ended his
rampage by fleeing to a service corridor and into the stairwell to the
lower level. He then took his life, unbeknownst to everyone in the mall.
"It seemed like forever but we actually heard the last shot the shooter put
into himself," said Ashley. That single ominous shot after the deafening
silence that covered the mall during the gunman's malfunction was replaced
by Nick's familiar voice shouting, "It's me! It's me!" right before he
opened the door.

Nick said nothing of his encounter, he just said he did not know where the
shooter was and that they should all remain quiet. An elderly woman in the
bathroom asked where her purse was as she was not feeling well and wanted
one of her blood pressure pills. Nick retrieved her medicine, told them all
to remain quiet and went back in front of the store in case the gunman
returned.

Knowing nothing good would come from police seeing an armed man in the mall
yet knowing he could not put his gun away without knowing the mall was
secure, Nick did what every concealed carrier should know to do -- he
called the police. Nick told the 911 operator that he was in the Clackamas
Town Center, that he was armed, and that he did not know where the gunman
was at that time. Nick gave a description of himself to the police so they
would know he was one of the good guys and would not engage on site.

As police arrived, Nick went back and told the girls police were on scene
but to stay in place. Nick holstered his weapon and began speaking with
investigators and covering everything that happened -- having definitive
answers to much of the chaos and conflicting report. No, there was only one
shooter. No, he was not white, he was Hispanic (Nick noticed that from a
small gap of neck that was uncovered between the shirt and mask).

While it seemed like yet another eternity, police came and got the girls
and led them out under an armed escort of seven officers. The police took
them past the Macy's Home Store which was blocked off by officers and down
a service corridor to the outside. Only later did Ashley and Casey realize
they had walked past the staircase the gunman had retreated to before
taking his own life.

Friday night, before the story of Nick's action had made it anywhere, Nick,
Casey, Ashley, and Noah attended the vigil for Steve Forsyth and Cindy Ann
Yuille the two victims killed at the very outset of the gunman's attack.
While hundreds of people gathered by candlelight and sang songs in
remembrance, none outside of the small group realized that Nick had stopped
the gunman and cut his rampage short -- saving the people inside the mall
and our nation a much greater tragedy.

No recognition is exactly what Nick would like. He has eschewed interviews
and plans to continue doing so simply because he did what he felt he had
to. Nick doesn't feel he is a hero so Ashley gets the final word:

"What Nick did and the actions he took saved lives. Whether he shot or not,
he changed the situation and he is the reason nobody else was shot"

For those out there that question Nick's actions -- Nick wasn't reading
words on a screen. He was faced with an active gunman who had already shot
more than 20 rounds, two close friends with a small child to protect,
shocked people in the mall, and it all happened in an instant. From the
time the gunman entered the mall until the time he ended his life was
almost 4 minutes. That's about half the time it took to read this article.
Gorgeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 08:46 AM   #67
DonandBonnie
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Madison
Posts: 1,239
M.O.C. #5906
It's really a crime that the media chooses to report only that which fits into its preconceived notion of the way the world should be.
DonandBonnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 10:22 AM   #68
HOOK
Montana Master
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 4,200
M.O.C. #11401
Grew up in a family of farmers, hunters, gun owners . Have owned one since I was 9. The only times I've ever used one against another human was when I was in the Vietnam "conflict". I reserve the right to do the same in defense of my home, family, friends, and myself. I would quote Charlton Heston.
Larry
HOOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 10:44 AM   #69
Tom S.
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Waterford
Posts: 3,693
M.O.C. #7500
Guys, please don't turn this into a "Pro Gun - Anti Gun" thread!
That was not the OP's point of posting, and we need to get back on his topic!
Tom S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 01:58 AM   #70
deadeye
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cresco
Posts: 447
M.O.C. #6693
"GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE.....PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE"..........Deadeye
deadeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 08:10 AM   #71
bigskyjimmy
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Washington Coast
Posts: 2,688
M.O.C. #10696
X2 with Tom, Come on gang cool the the gun vs no gun b.s. we all got our opinions lets keep it to ourselves please huh?? this is a an RV forum lets keep it that way
__________________
[
bigskyjimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 01:55 PM   #72
CORattler
Montana Master
 
CORattler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 3,335
M.O.C. #10496
Not to worry, The thread will run it's course and we'll pursue another subject.


Quote:
quote:Originally posted by bigskyjimmy

X2 with Tom, Come on gang cool the the gun vs no gun b.s. we all got our opinions lets keep it to ourselves please huh?? this is a an RV forum lets keep it that way
__________________
2010 3150RL
LevelUp, Dual 6 volt batteries, Progressive Industries EMS HW50C, Honda EU2000i Generator, Bridgestone Duravis R250 tires, Torklift Glowstep Revolution Stairs, LED Tail lights
2015 RAM 3500 Laramie SRW LB CC Cummins 6.7L Aisin Trans B&W RVK3600
CORattler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 09:02 PM   #73
bigskyjimmy
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Washington Coast
Posts: 2,688
M.O.C. #10696
Thank God!!! I want to get back to important threads like my pooper is plugged up and won't flush correctly and stuff like that
__________________
[
bigskyjimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2012, 02:28 AM   #74
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,167
M.O.C. #2839
Excuse me..This particular thread is one that has nothing to do with Rv'ing.."sitting around the campfire"Please read the intro. Just go to the other threads that contain the information you want.


having said that...does anybody note that the media promotes that the only reason to own a gun is for self protection and home defense.I say the vast majority including my self purchased for hunting and sport.Also that the media,s description of Assault rifle is completely in error.
What happened to responsible journalism. Should they not be required to tell the truth.We do need to address the issue of the ease of bad guys to get any kind of gun..
richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2012, 02:59 AM   #75
Tom S.
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Waterford
Posts: 3,693
M.O.C. #7500
C'mon Rich, the media never lets the truth get in the way of a good story that will make them money!
Tom S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2012, 05:13 AM   #76
steelpony5555
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Copperas Cove
Posts: 1,426
M.O.C. #12096
The media has folks all up in arms over assault rifles. But the only difference between a semi auto hunting rifle and a assault weapon is the magazine. Most assault rifles don't have the hitting power of some of the bigger hunting rifles they just shoot more bullets before changing the mag. I'm just not sure what they think they will accomplish banning assault rifles. I got no problem with them having more control over who is allowed to own one or more importantly who is allowed to have higher capacity mags. Only problem is a lot of these mass shootings the shooter did not own the weapons or buy them themselves. Nut cases and bad guys will always be able to get a gun. If people are required to go to classes on gun safety they may take better care of their weapons and secure them better.
steelpony5555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2012, 07:33 AM   #77
RVWheels
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Anywhere
Posts: 3,430
M.O.C. #29
This thread is diverging from what the OP started. It has been a remarkable thread considering the content of the thread. Rather than see it destroy itself I think it is best to let it rest where it is. This thread is being locked with thanks to all posters who dealt with it in a mature manner. RVWheels, MOC Admin.
RVWheels is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Carry Out Bill and Jan Let Us Entertain You 1 12-07-2015 07:50 AM
For those that carry and those that don't Allen in MT Sitting around the Campfire 7 12-22-2012 11:33 AM
chl [Concealed Weapons] stiles watson Sitting around the Campfire 24 08-22-2011 06:32 AM
Funeral? or just "I'm gone, carry on.."? Ozz Sitting around the Campfire 31 03-17-2010 05:56 PM
To Much Junk To Carry Waynem Sitting around the Campfire 5 07-02-2009 04:00 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×