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Old 07-31-2012, 07:32 AM   #1
dieselguy
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Under Big Brother's Thumb

Since it's been excessively dry this summer, the ground has shrunk away from my neighbors house and broken his propane line running from his tank. He replaced the entire length of black pipe as well as the flex lines at both ends of the run. He left the trench open as to be able to bubble check his connections when the propane truck fill his tank back up ... NOT! Even though the propane company had been filling his bottle for the last 16 years with black pipe supplying the house ... since the driver saw the open trench with black pipe, he says he cannot fill the tank as the black pipe is now illegal. My neighbor has to install some high dollar plastic hose, special fittings, and of course the county inspection fee before he can get his tank filled. I know some will respond it's for his safety ... he's obviously been safe for 16 years ... when I grew up, our house simply had a buried run of copper line from the tank to the house and I'm still above ground to talk about it!
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:09 AM   #2
Art-n-Marge
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Maybe the laws were changed "for safety reasons" and the driver can now see that it is no longer safe and therefore just making a stink about it. After all, your neighbor had a problem and the new safety requirements maybe would have prevented his original installation. I often must make better fixes the second time around when I find that the first time around wasn't as good. I think this is called "grandfathering" and when "grandpa dies" the "new generation" must learn the new ways.
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:38 AM   #3
DQDick
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If he had filled the tank, and something happened, the lawyer would have sued him and his company. In the old days we could take responsibility for ourselves. Not today!
We're Kansas folks, and others may not understand how we feel about being told what to do. The best easy example was the helmet law. Many of us worked for years to get rid of it. If we wanted to kill ourselves and it didn't hurt others that was, we felt, our right. Most of us wore helmets then and still wear them now. Our choice, not theirs! The sad part is that one of the main leaders of the fight was killed on his way home from the celebration when he wrecked and wasn't wearing a helmet. His choice and we all supported it.
Second good example was the 55mile per hour speed limit. When the Feds finally made Kansas enforce it the state made the ticket a non moving violation. Didn't hurt your license or insurance and was very seldom enforced. We just don't like being told what to do.
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:42 AM   #4
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Yeah, I feel the pain. We have a small business. Laws, regulations, and codes are constantly changing. For our own protection?
Some we manage to avoid by being grandfathered. Some we have to spend dollars to upgrade to the new requirements even, as you say, we have supposedly been "safe" for the last 26 years.
Annoying, but I can see the need to adhere to new rules when equipment changes are made.
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Old 07-31-2012, 02:36 PM   #5
DonandJudy_12
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Want to go back to "the good old days"? Better think about that because you might not like the outcome- Why was the regulation changed? Did someone die using the previous style hookup? Is the new style more or less safe? I need more info before I can get on board this train- Whether we like it or not, some regulation is needed to prevent unscrupulous "business's" from cutting corners- How many years ago was the original installation made? By whom? I could go on and on but that's my 2 cents worth- JMHO- Don
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Old 07-31-2012, 03:51 PM   #6
jsmitfl
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The acid in the ground will cause these black pipes to rust out prematurely. Then it blows and depending whats around a possible spark and oh boy. I've saw many many lines broken and only a few have caught fire. BUT it may be you house if the wind is blowing the right direction and theres a source.
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Old 07-31-2012, 03:58 PM   #7
kab449
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Around here they install yellow plastic coated copper pipe underground for the propane runs from the tank. It is the current code and is tested to last longer than the old iron pipe. Do it right and the lawyers will stay away!
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Old 07-31-2012, 04:32 PM   #8
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My present gas company tried that stunt three yrs ago and I told them to either install the correct supply lines or yank their tank out and I would either get a new supplier or shift to natural since it had just been installed out here. They installed all new lines and regulators. This spring the tank regulator fitting failed and I lost about 100 gals of propane over the course of a month. I called them several times to come check with no luck so I soaped the fittings and found a big leak. They came out the next day and replaced the lost fuel. I am happy for now...
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Old 07-31-2012, 04:49 PM   #9
hazmic
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My Montana has black pipe and copper tubeing. It is exposed to the salt if you drive it in the winter. Some of the rules are hard to figure out. Some one sits behind a desk and make the rules and has not a clue of what is going on. The only thing we can do is go by the rules or laws. We have natural gas and that is plastic with a wire in it so they can find out where it is. That might why the rule change. Also they are putting in alot of fiber optic around here.
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Old 07-31-2012, 05:59 PM   #10
jsmitfl
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Mickey,
Even though your black pipe is exposed to salt at least you can see if it is going bad and fix it. Underground we have no idea.
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Old 08-01-2012, 05:59 AM   #11
Fire5er
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Watch this incident with propane that happened in Tacoma, WA and you will understand why a driver of a propane tanker wants to follow the current safety regulation...because when things go wrong they are often deadly. The driver of this incident died.
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Old 08-01-2012, 06:14 AM   #12
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I concede that there will always be new and better stuff than what was once used ... even if what was once used lasted without fail on a particular application for years. One cannot rationally believe that life can be without peril from time to time nor can one rationally believe that government can regulate us away from any conceivable tragedy. If you fall into the latter example ... you're part of the problem that the good ole US of A has teetered into. That's ma story and I'm sticking to it ........
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Old 08-01-2012, 08:30 AM   #13
richfaa
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technology and knowledge advances.Black pipe was Ok because that was all we had now we know better.If we were allowed to regulate ourselves we would do whatever we wanted to do and chaos would follow.

Who needs tire ratings, Who needs weight ratings. We don't need no stinking regulations. Government can lead us away from tragedy because we are incapable of doing it our selves.
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Old 08-01-2012, 09:43 AM   #14
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Rich, you threw a pretty big loop there. You may not be capable of making a educated and informed decision, and need the government to make them for you, but many of us can do it on our own.
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:13 AM   #15
dieselguy
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grayghost03 ... I believe we're in the same chapter ... on the same page. If most hadn't noticed ... chaos is just around the corner should the US of A continue on with the current mindset. Initiative and individual thinking made this country great ... that has most all been regulated away.
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:32 AM   #16
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Diesel Guy, I agree. I am in the food industry and on the environmental side to boot. I see the gov changing regulation everyday, some needed, some that do nothing to improve food safety or environmental impacts. But I assure you it adds significant cost to the American made product we make. We have to compete against foreign counties that don't have many of these cost. With no tariffs to off set these cost, the American worker is the one effected in the long term, both in employment and cost of living.
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:15 PM   #17
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Political topics and personal insults are not acceptable postings here. This topic has been on the edge since inception. The original posts were close to the line, but now we have definitely crossed it.

(insert Porky Pig sounds here)
Tha tha tha that's all folk's!
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