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Old 12-05-2011, 04:44 AM   #21
DarMar
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We too missed the original post/postings that caused such a stir, but really what's the big deal? For what ever reason the thread was shut down by the admins, plain and simple they are just doing their job, and being very good at it as well. We are ALL going to get called off-side once in a while, that's life, and onward we go.JMHO.
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Old 12-05-2011, 05:06 AM   #22
LonnieB
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Well said Steve.
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Old 12-05-2011, 05:12 AM   #23
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Threads that start with legitimate questions about guns and/or gun ownership almost invariably get shut down because it degenerates in a right vs left verbal fight over the issue. If you follow the Open Roads forum, you will see the same thing time after time. And a moderator quickly deletes the entire thread.
I also support the moderators decisions on this. It is much easier to delete the entire thread, than to try to make decisions on which post is proper and which is not. That would only create additional complaints about their methods.
For what it is worth, I am also a lifetime gun owner, hunter, shooter, and concealed carry license holder.
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Old 12-05-2011, 05:38 AM   #24
Shooterdad
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This morning I received an e mail from the admin in regards to my last post explaining why the thread was locked . Let me first say that I don't envy the moderators one bit and would never want the position and if I were I can assure you there would be many more threads locked out based on what I feel has redeeming value and what doesn't.

The e mail was an apology from the admin for the way the closure was handled,with what I feel was a reasonable explanation.I have participated in many forums RV and otherwise for many years and many times bit my tongue to keep from being censored , so to find my thread in this position was something that got me peeved .

To those in support of this thread thank you , and to those who were not I wish you safe travels.

Let me give you something to consider for those that dont like this thread or guns in general or for whatever venue they dont approve of with a quick story.

Here in San Diego there was a petition on the ballot for a No Smoking ban on our Beach's due to all the cigarette butts on the sand, I smoked(I dont ever go to the beach) and one of my employees was in favor of the ban,I told him once they ban that it will be something else, sure enough 1 year later another petition No glass on the beach, he was still in favor, 1 year later No Alcohol. Now he is upset because he cant go to the beach a have a plastic cup of wine. I dont go to the beach , I dont drink , but it is sad to loose the freedoms for those that do. Careful what you wish for folks.

My frustration isn't about the thread content or guns really , just the fact that one comment from someone that doesn't agree or is some how put off by the subject can close it, when the was clearly many more that showed interest.

I throughly enjoy this site and the many that contribute here and as such have learned a lot of things not only about RVing, Montana Fifth Wheels, but life in general , guess this will be another lesson . Have a Great Day...Scott
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Old 12-05-2011, 06:03 AM   #25
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Thank you for posting this.
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Old 12-05-2011, 06:22 AM   #26
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Scott, I too want to thank you for posting. I have three kids in law enforcement, they all tell me when Concealed Carry Permit are passed in a state crime does down. To each his own.
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:03 AM   #27
DonandJudy_12
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When we post to the forum, is the posting immediate or delayed? If the posting is delayed (as I suspect), why can't the offenders post be scratched and the offender notified or banned as I know some have been? Just a thought for all to consider- JMHO- Don
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:11 AM   #28
Tom S.
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Shooterdad

This morning I received an e mail from the admin in regards to my last post explaining why the thread was locked . Let me first say that I don't envy the moderators one bit and would never want the position and if I were I can assure you there would be many more threads locked out based on what I feel has redeeming value and what doesn't.

The e mail was an apology from the admin for the way the closure was handled,with what I feel was a reasonable explanation.I have participated in many forums RV and otherwise for many years and many times bit my tongue to keep from being censored , so to find my thread in this position was something that got me peeved .

To those in support of this thread thank you , and to those who were not I wish you safe travels.

Let me give you something to consider for those that dont like this thread or guns in general or for whatever venue they dont approve of with a quick story.

Here in San Diego there was a petition on the ballot for a No Smoking ban on our Beach's due to all the cigarette butts on the sand, I smoked(I dont ever go to the beach) and one of my employees was in favor of the ban,I told him once they ban that it will be something else, sure enough 1 year later another petition No glass on the beach, he was still in favor, 1 year later No Alcohol. Now he is upset because he cant go to the beach a have a plastic cup of wine. I dont go to the beach , I dont drink , but it is sad to loose the freedoms for those that do. Careful what you wish for folks.

My frustration isn't about the thread content or guns really , just the fact that one comment from someone that doesn't agree or is some how put off by the subject can close it, when the was clearly many more that showed interest.

I throughly enjoy this site and the many that contribute here and as such have learned a lot of things not only about RVing, Montana Fifth Wheels, but life in general , guess this will be another lesson . Have a Great Day...Scott
That 'knee-jerk' reaction you speak about with the beach is the cause of many of our laws today. Instead of addressing the cause, it's easier to punish everyone. I used to run into this kind of thing at work all the time.
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:17 AM   #29
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by DonandJudy_12

When we post to the forum, is the posting immediate or delayed? If the posting is delayed (as I suspect), why can't the offenders post be scratched and the offender notified or banned as I know some have been? Just a thought for all to consider- JMHO- Don
It's immediate. This one will show as soon as I hit enter. As many posts as this forum gets it would take a large bunch of moderators to review every post before it is posted. I know some forums do it that way and it sometimes is days before a post shows up. I don't know how the moderators feel about it but if I were one of them I would not last long under those conditions. I have a life and I'm not willing to give it up to review hundreds of posts! My hat is off to those who moderate this forum as it is now. But your idea otherwise has merit in my opinion.
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Old 12-05-2011, 08:46 AM   #30
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I have often said, "Be careful of whose rights you give away, yours could be next."
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:09 AM   #31
CamillaMichael
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Shooterdad

This morning I received an e mail from the admin in regards to my last post explaining why the thread was locked . Let me first say that I don't envy the moderators one bit and would never want the position and if I were I can assure you there would be many more threads locked out based on what I feel has redeeming value and what doesn't.

The e mail was an apology from the admin for the way the closure was handled,with what I feel was a reasonable explanation.I have participated in many forums RV and otherwise for many years and many times bit my tongue to keep from being censored , so to find my thread in this position was something that got me peeved .

To those in support of this thread thank you , and to those who were not I wish you safe travels.

Let me give you something to consider for those that dont like this thread or guns in general or for whatever venue they dont approve of with a quick story.

Here in San Diego there was a petition on the ballot for a No Smoking ban on our Beach's due to all the cigarette butts on the sand, I smoked(I dont ever go to the beach) and one of my employees was in favor of the ban,I told him once they ban that it will be something else, sure enough 1 year later another petition No glass on the beach, he was still in favor, 1 year later No Alcohol. Now he is upset because he cant go to the beach a have a plastic cup of wine. I dont go to the beach , I dont drink , but it is sad to loose the freedoms for those that do. Careful what you wish for folks.

My frustration isn't about the thread content or guns really , just the fact that one comment from someone that doesn't agree or is some how put off by the subject can close it, when the was clearly many more that showed interest.

I throughly enjoy this site and the many that contribute here and as such have learned a lot of things not only about RVing, Montana Fifth Wheels, but life in general , guess this will be another lesson . Have a Great Day...Scott
Scott, glad you are back! I WAS enjoying your initial post about guns when the post was shot down. Whether I am for or against personal firearms is not the issue for me. What bothered me was that I did not see anything particularly bothersome, either for or against, although it may have been headed in that direction. I believe as some others have suggested that if a posters comments really did get out of line, then scratch that poster's comment, not the entire post! We had a member report a bullet hole in his Montana not long ago and I have seen mention of crimes committed in RV campgrounds on other sites...I want to keep informed on what is going on out there, and closing down discussions is not going to help me do that. I think I get the point.
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:33 AM   #32
patbarton
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Vickie, if all readers can see is THIS thread, then we're really not certain what the point IS without moderator comment on the earlier thread!

The problem is that, without input by the moderators, we really DON'T know exactly why the thread was closed. And I for one resent the implication from (mostly) older members that we are invited to part company with the forum if we don't agree on the way it is being operated. We are all RVers with a common interest that holds us together, one which do so with a pretty strong bond; other than that, we are all different people with different views on many subjects. There should be room for disagreement here. In my lurking days here I've seen a good degree of intolerance on the part of admins about different things. One in particular was a post by an established member who suggested the MOC logo-d merchandise could be updated. That post was shut down very rudely (my opinion) by an admin. I thought that could have been handled much more politely.

In this case, there was no input from forum administration as to why the thread was closed. The OP claims no one contacted him about it, and I think that should ALWAYS happen. If admins moderate without explanation, then we as members are not really sure what is expected of us. I know (and I think we all do) that name-calling and nastiness are not allowed. And I think the more astute of us have an opinion of why the thread was closed, but we do NOT know what happened unless notified by the moderator(s) that closed the thread.

After a while, repeated statements that "the admins are doing a great job here and if you don't like it go start your own forum" get pretty tiresome. For the most part I think this forum is well-moderated. But how much of that is based on the good manners almost universally exhibited by the members in less controversial posts?
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:03 AM   #33
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Let me add.There is nothing wrong with discussing Rv and Guns in terms of who may and who may not carry one in the RV or in terms of safety in handling and storage of firearms or the laws of the various States regarding firearms.However unfortunately in most every case the discussion degenerates into the usual cliches pro and anti.Who needs that.

How many firearms we have, if they are in the Rv, If we carry is my business and no one elses.My personal opinions on firearms and the various laws are also my business. We have the 2nd amendment. We have CCL laws in various States. We have personal choice. That says it all.
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:11 AM   #34
HomeOnTheRoad
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by patbarton

Vickie, if all readers can see is THIS thread, then we're really not certain what the point IS without moderator comment on the earlier thread!

The problem is that, without input by the moderators, we really DON'T know exactly why the thread was closed. And I for one resent the implication from (mostly) older members that we are invited to part company with the forum if we don't agree on the way it is being operated. We are all RVers with a common interest that holds us together, one which do so with a pretty strong bond; other than that, we are all different people with different views on many subjects. There should be room for disagreement here. In my lurking days here I've seen a good degree of intolerance on the part of admins about different things. One in particular was a post by an established member who suggested the MOC logo-d merchandise could be updated. That post was shut down very rudely (my opinion) by an admin. I thought that could have been handled much more politely.

In this case, there was no input from forum administration as to why the thread was closed. The OP claims no one contacted him about it, and I think that should ALWAYS happen. If admins moderate without explanation, then we as members are not really sure what is expected of us. I know (and I think we all do) that name-calling and nastiness are not allowed. And I think the more astute of us have an opinion of why the thread was closed, but we do NOT know what happened unless notified by the moderator(s) that closed the thread.

After a while, repeated statements that "the admins are doing a great job here and if you don't like it go start your own forum" get pretty tiresome. For the most part I think this forum is well-moderated. But how much of that is based on the good manners almost universally exhibited by the members in less controversial posts?
Let me see if I can make this clear. I am quoting the above because I want to address some of the comments. But I am not pointing my reply only to this poster. I am trying to clarify to all.

1. This is a privately owned forum monitored by the Administrators and Moderators who are charged with following the instructions of the owner and keeping the forum true to the Mission Statement as best we can.

2. There is no requirement that we notify anyone about any of our actions for any reason. However, we do frequently communicate with the offender to make sure they understand our action. Sometimes we have even reversed the action. There are exceptions where we do not or can not contact the offender.

3. We try to keep our communications about offensive posts behind the scenes. It is not our goal to embarrass the individual by posting a public tongue lashing.

4. We do value your input and we frequently discuss those issues among ourselves. However, we will NOT violate the mission statement or the wishes of the owner. When a violation occurs is purely a subjective decision. Sometimes we are wrong and when that happens we own up to it and try to correct it. When we feel we are correct, then the decision stands regardless of how others feel. That is the job we are charged with doing and we will do it.

5. The Administrator who eliminated the other thread did contact the originator and even apologized for how it was handled. I personally do not think he had to do that but he chose to do so. That was made clear in an earlier post in this thread.

6. Sometimes we just delete a single offending post instead of the whole thread. That has created problems, too. If we just delete the single post, then that poster is ticked off and we have these same discussions we're seeing now. If we don't delete the post but just delete its contents and replace it with a comment that the post was offensive and deleted, then that embarrasses the poster because his name is still over there on the left. We have to make a decision on the fly.

7. I will reiterate what another poster said earlier because it was stated succintly and it is fact. This is a privately owned and run forum. Anyone who does not like it is not required to stay here. If you don't like how it is run, leave. It is as simple as that.
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:18 AM   #35
pineranch
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How about a GROUP HUG!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:24 AM   #36
sreigle
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Pat Barton, you can obviously resent me all you want. I'm just telling you how it is.

This is still the best forum of its type available and it's that way BECAUSE the administrators do their job. I do not always agree with them but then I don't always agree with anyone, and vice-versa. So be it. I still prefer this forum to the others I've tried. If I didn't, I'd leave.
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:51 AM   #37
Jim Dickey
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Please, who owns the form.
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Old 12-05-2011, 11:44 AM   #38
SlickWillie
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Jim Dickey

Please, who owns the form.
Someone else will probably chime in first, as slow as I type...but the owner does not desire to be revealed.
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:25 PM   #39
richfaa
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Montana Owners Club's Mission Statement

The Montana Owners Club Mission shall be to:

"To Provide Montana RV enthusiasts a calm and inviting atmosphere to exchange
valuable information, and enhance their general RV-ing experience."

The Montana RV Club is a club organized for the enjoyment of all owners of
Montana, Montana Big Sky 5th Wheels, Montana Mountaineer RVs or
any person who is planning on buying a Montana in their future.
If you own either brand (any model) you can add to the
enjoyment of your RV lifestyle and leisure time
by joining the Montana Owners Club.


We stand behind the administrators and moderators .The forum has been provided by a private individual(s).It is a valuable resource to me. It is free.I try to abide by their rules.If the time comes that I can not I will be gone. There are plenty of Rv forums out there.
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:38 PM   #40
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Rich well said.
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