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Old 08-19-2010, 02:43 AM   #21
LonnieB
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I like the way you think Rich
 
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Old 08-19-2010, 01:51 PM   #22
c214dick
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The front decal on our 2008 3400 have been ragged arounf the edges for quite awhile. I did contact Kristen last year and she sent me replacement front decals at no charge.

I will not put in the time and labor to replace them myself as that should be done by either Keystone or Burlington. This topic was addressed at last years rally and if my memory is correct Keystone admitted there was a problem.
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Old 08-19-2010, 02:12 PM   #23
stevemc
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I've probably ranted enough on other thread about this subject but basically agree with all that has been said here. I talked to Keystone about replacing just the front graphics on our trailer 2 years ago and was told it is too old. I understand they did replace some at no cost but our trailer was built in June 2004 with 2004 graphics but sold as a new 2005 model (another peeve). Now some of the decals on the sides and back are starting to look bad. I've taken the worst ones off and just not replaced them. I don't see any sense in replacing them with the same quality product that will shrink and start peeling again in a couple of years. Replacing the graphics should not be considered a maintenance function to be done every 2 or 3 years. I've read on other threads that Keystone has said they think this problem affects only a small number of units. If that is the case they either have no idea what kind of product they are really putting out or they've just decided to turn their back on it. I for one am looking at other brands. I like alot of things about the Montana brand but I believe this issue is a glaring illustration the company's true lack of commitment to product quality and customer service.
Sorry, I did say I wasn't going to rant. Keystone, if you are listening, please give us a sign that you are going step up to the plate on this one. If you really believe it only affects a small number of units the cost will be well worth the PR that will be repaired.
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Old 08-19-2010, 04:05 PM   #24
racerjoe
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I don't know if I missed a comment on this tread but reading Trailer life magazine someone stated that burlington had lost their contract with Keystone. It was another Montana owner.
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Old 08-19-2010, 04:40 PM   #25
cdaniels
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We to are disgusted with the graphic's and it would stop us from buying another Montana. Why would we pay thousands of dollars knowing it will look like trash in 2-4 years. We keep our in a garage and the graphic look like crap! Keystone knows there is a problem but it is all of our problem not thiers! Our neighbor has 1 decal left and the rest of his Montana is bald. It is really ugly but I guess Keystone does not care what that looks like going down the road. He said he was stuck once buying a Montana but he will not be stuck again. He refuses to buy another Montana.

As to the rally in Goshen... Keystone will most likely address the small problem as they see it, a major problem as we all see it, they did last year. They will blame it on anything and everything, weather, waxing, you name i. But they will not try to fix the problem. They act like we do something wrong. No... poor quality materials now and in the past!!!
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Old 08-20-2010, 02:13 AM   #26
racerjoe
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does anyone know of any agentcies,either federal or independent that MOC as a group could contact to see if anything can be done to put a recall on this problem? From what it looks like, that their whole product line is compromised. I know it is not a safety issue,but when almost every Montana product is affected in one way or another it has now become a high dollar value issue that should be addressed. It is too bad that you need to push companies into doing the right thing.A lot of members here say that a little bit of honey goes a long way in fixing a problem, it's a shame that Keystone or Burlignton does not feel that way.Just pass the buck until you get tired of chasing it.
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Old 08-20-2010, 03:47 AM   #27
richfaa
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It might be wise to first sort out the source of the problem.

Does keystone provide the spec's as was suggested....we don' t know
Does it happen on other brands.. I know it does...do they provide the spec's..we don't know
Why do some peel and shrink and others do not..we don't know.

So much to know before a source of the problem can be determined.
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Old 08-20-2010, 04:21 AM   #28
racerjoe
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Burlington told the reader in trailer life that Keystone gave them the specs for the decals. saying this, I believe there is a two way street. If Burlington is a manufacturer of graphics and have there own engineering and design people,then why didn't they speak up to Keystone and tell them they might run into a problem with this material? Or did they and Keystone decided to ignore it due to the fact that they were cheaper and they would take their chances. But as you see,both companies are blaming each other and the consumer is left with the poor design and lots of money out of pocket to replace it.That's why I asked if there is someone who oversees the industry that could possibly get answers that we can't. As I said all we get is "go fetch" from one company to the other. They know as an individual we can't fight them,our pockets are not deep enough.
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Old 08-20-2010, 04:28 AM   #29
Ronald
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Our Montan graphics were peeling, and rather than put new ones on that would peel again we took Montana off. No more Montana on our 2008 3400rl. Will take the rest off as they peel. It seems only Keystone has this problem. Between that and the tires made in China, It has cost us a lot of money. Thanks Ron & Ann
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Old 08-20-2010, 04:37 AM   #30
PapaBeav
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by richfaa

It might be wise to first sort out the source of the problem.

Does keystone provide the spec's as was suggested....we don' t know
Does it happen on other brands.. I know it does...do they provide the spec's..we don't know
Why do some peel and shrink and others do not..we don't know.

So much to know before a source of the problem can be determined.
Rich, this has been an ongoing problem for some time now and it is getting worse. Keystone has known about this problem for quite some time but has failed to do anything about it. The only good news (maybe) is that when I talked to someone at Keystone the other day they did have a meeting on the subject of the graphics the day before. Whether anything will be done about it is another story. We really like our Montana but will not buy another unless this graphics problem is resolved.
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:26 AM   #31
Mrs. CountryGuy
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Disclaimer: I have NOT been to all the discussions at the Rallys on decals.

Disclaimer 2: My brain cells leak facts, SIGHHHH

However, it seems to me that at one of the seminars I did attend at one of the Fall Rallys, that there was a LONG discussion about the material/vendors of the decals. Some are Avery, some were 3M??? and some another name.

Does anyone remember this besides me?? Didn't they say, we (as in Burlington) have switched vendors several times, we don't have any control over how Avery (or whomever supplies that decal material) manufacturers the basic material and the adhesive.

Our 2003 graphics on an early 2004 Montana are starting to peal and curl, we do have some replacement graphics, but, Al is VERY concerned about paying someone to clean off the old, buff the nose cone of Tana clean and pay someone to put the "new" on. Yes, we might be able to do this ourselves, but after the last couple of years we have had, we just are not of the mind set to attempt that set of chores.

Oh, and just for the record, the replacement graphics,came on two different manufacturers type of paper. That is interesting, eh??
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Old 08-20-2010, 06:12 AM   #32
stevemc
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For Keystone or Burlington to say they have no control over the quality is a crock.
Keystone has the primary responsibility to their customers. They should provide any supplier with specifications that should include resistance to shrinking, peeling, fading, etc. It is Keystones responsibility to take care of their customers then go to the supplier to recover their expenses. They have refused to do that prefering instead to say its just a problem with a small number of units. I don't know if other brands have this problem or not but the only ones I have seen are Montana's. There are many old and much less expensive trailers out there that have original graphics that look much better than many 3 or 4 year old Montana's. If this was an issue of climate, weather, or how we care for them you would see the problem equally on all the other brands.
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Old 08-20-2010, 07:07 AM   #33
jackandh2o
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Two and a half years ago we bought a used 2005 Mountaineer. On both sides and the front cap we have peeling, cracking and faded decals.
We traded in a 3 year old Rage'n and the decals looked like new.
I think it's time they quit pointing fingers and actually did something about it.

Ray
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Old 08-20-2010, 08:43 AM   #34
TLightning
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I apologize if this has been mentioned earlier in this thread...I can't get any page to open except for the first one. Anyway, it would be interesting to do a study to determine the year and model of those Montanas with bad decals. No doubt some are good and some are bad, at least that would narrow down the field. The decals on my 2007 3400 are fine.
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Old 08-20-2010, 08:51 AM   #35
richfaa
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Burlington Graphics is always at the Fall rally and does a seminar. They are going to be in for a rough time this year. I do not remember anything about who provides the spec' for the graphics. I do remember Burlington having glue and paper problems,,, I am still confused that some have problems and many do not. Mine are perfect as are others. As someone posted what is the common denominator??

Are most of the failures on High Gloss gel coat ??? or not?? mine is not high gloss gel coat.

For those who have taken the factory tour..(we have taken it 6 times.) What do you think about the "station" where the graphics are applied at the factory. It is just out in the open..no clean room of any kind, no temperature control. The graphics are hanging on racks to be applied. Are there temperature and humidity parameters for applying Graphics??? What does burlington say about the application procedure??? I would be taking a good look at how they are applied and I will be taking both Burlinton and Keystone to task about that at the rally.

BTW... on the post by jackandh2o in 2005 the mountaineer was made in a entirly different factory yet they peeled. Were they applied under the same conditions??? we have also toured the Couger and
mountaineers plants..... we know the answer.
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Old 08-20-2010, 09:43 AM   #36
c214dick
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We had gel coat on our Cedar Creek and did not have the problems identified with Montana. I don't know who supplied the graphics for CC.
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Old 08-20-2010, 09:56 AM   #37
stevemc
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Rich, thank you for your efforts even though you aren't haveing the problem on your 3400, I wish I could be at the rally to lend support. I'd be interested to know if Keystone or the Montana division has any formal quality program in place, anyone designated in the organization as a quality manager or quality engineer. They seem to have a reactionary approach to problems but haven't even reacted effectively on this issue. You are right there needs to be more study to try to find the common denominator in those units that have the problem and those that don't. Keystone should be interested enough to gather and analyze that information as part of their root cause analysis - should have been done several years ago when this problem came to light.
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Old 08-20-2010, 09:57 AM   #38
CamillaMichael
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by exav8tr

It would be nice if Keystone offered a full paint option for each unit ordered AND warranteed the decals for 4 years to show they stand behind their product. If it is true they have severed their contract with Burlington, perhaps some of this might resolve itself. I did see a Montana High Country today that was not white and looked pretty good, although I think it still had decals. Wonder how long those will last.
Full paint option??? Seem to remember seeing a 3400 full paint (a horrible, washed out grey) in Tampa earlier this year. But some other color might be nice, but then we would have to deal with pealing paint...no win Phil!
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Old 08-20-2010, 10:19 AM   #39
stevemc
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I do like the full body paint option I've seen on some other brands. I wouldn't be comfortable buying it from Keystone until I see something to indicate they have their act together. Peeling full body paint would be a much bigger problem than we have now with the graphics. Certainly it shouldn't be offered as a "solution" to the graphics problem. Like saying "We can't solve the graphics problem so as a solution we'll offer to charge you $????? for a paint job that may or may not stay on." No thanks.
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Old 08-20-2010, 10:51 AM   #40
richfaa
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Montana does offer a full body paint option on the Big Sky. We have seen plain white Big Sky's outside the factory waiting to be painted off site... I think there are some here that have the full paint option on the big sky??? Not sure how many would be willing to pay the price......not us.

keystone is responsive to problems which is what puzzles me about the ongoing graphics issues.
Quality manager....Quality engineer... Like I said.. We have toured the plant 6 times as well as other brand plants and having been in the quality control business for a few years we have yet to see anything that resembles effective quality control. yes we see the red tags on the units at the end of the line but these are external defects. If there is quality control at each step of the manufacturing process, as there should be, it has escaped us.
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