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Old 08-03-2009, 09:07 AM   #1
blamb
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Don't allow Dealers and Shops to join the forum

I don't think dealers and repair shops, or anyone acting as an affiliate and not a keystone rv owner themselves, should be allowed to join the forum. You can't read this forum unless you are a member. Well I don't think it's right to sign up and be a member just so you can see what people are saying about you. Us owners need to feel like this is a safe place that we can vent about these dealerships and shops if we need to. How many people will avoid putting their less than positive review up because they know they will read it, and are afraid they will get even worse treatment if the dealership sees them complaining about them? Well it isn't going to stop me, but I wish the dealership I am having a bad experience with was not a member of this forum.

Administrators, think about it. It's the smart thing to do. Dealerships and repair shops do not need to be members of this forum. Please remove them and don't allow them to remain in the future. Please?
 
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Old 08-03-2009, 09:18 AM   #2
SlickWillie
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So you're saying your dealer is a forum member? I don't really have a problem with it myself. Anything I post on here I will tell my dealer and Keystone to their face. I think if their salesmen and techs would get on here more, they might learn something about their products.
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Old 08-03-2009, 09:21 AM   #3
blamb
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Yeah, at least the service department rep is.
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Old 08-03-2009, 09:22 AM   #4
NCFischers
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I hope they all belong and read what is being said. If one of them isn't doing right by their customers, then they can watch their business being steered elsewhere. If a dealer is going to be vindictive over what is being said here, then he needs to lose business and he will. Remember, Blamb, There is always someone higher up the food chain to contact.
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Old 08-03-2009, 09:26 AM   #5
blamb
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NCFishers, good points, but what if there is no place else for some to steer their business? The one to which I am referring is the only one I have to contact locally for repair work and such. I don't have anywhere else to go. Should they choose to get vindictive because of what I said on here, I could go higher up the food chain, but it'd still leave me without someone to help me when I need it.
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Old 08-03-2009, 10:10 AM   #6
Glenn and Lorraine
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Well blamb the only thing I can say is if you ain't gonna say it to the dealers face than don't say it here.
If your dealers service rep is an MOCer and is vindictive toward you than go up that food change to his boss. DO NOT allow any dealer employee to treat you wrong.
Now, as far as
Quote:
quote:I don't think dealers and repair shops, or anyone acting as an affiliate and not a keystone rv owner themselves, should be allowed to join the forum.
I totally disagree. We have a huge number of Montana dealers, even Keystone themselves, that monitor this forum on a very regular basis. This also applies to many of the RV component manufacturers. I have met many dealers at RV shows, rallies and the like that knew darn near as much about what was going on here as I do.
One great example is Keystone and Montana themselves. Many many times there was a complaint voiced here or a suggestion for adding new thing-a-ma-jig to the rigs and guess what, Montana took action and the complaint or suggestion was followed up on. Granted it doesn't always work in our favor but when it does it was because Montana monitored this forum.

Kick them off?? I think not.
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Old 08-03-2009, 10:14 AM   #7
stiles watson
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This is not an easy thing for the administrators. First, they want folks to join who are or may be Montana owners. This is a great resource for those who are looking and deliberating on a purchase. They should be welcome to come and explore.

As I understand it, only individuals join, not companies, with very rare exception. I can only think of a couple of exceptions and even then it is individuals, not the company itself. There are some individuals who have affiliations and can provide helpful information to MOCers. Then there are some who are Montana owners and have special backgrounds or businesses and provide reliable information. One example is Lonnie. Lonnie is a dealer of tires, but he doesn't sell tires here. He is here as an owner, but coincidentally, he can provide a lot of good info about tires. These "experts" provide a service to the members.

There are also members who have left the ranks of Montana owners and continue (some rather heavily) to contribute posts. They came as owners, but bought SOB. They seem to like this forum and continue to post here, perhaps because of the developing of friendships or just because it is a great forum.

This leaves the administration with dilemmas about making the rules. It is their forum and the rest of us are guests. I suggest that if you have a complaint concerning a given member, PM the administration and voice your specific concern about the inappropriate nature of their membership.

If your shop is so devious as to be vindictive in serving you, what would prevent them from joining by feigning membership as an owner and "spying" on you anyway.
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Old 08-03-2009, 10:18 AM   #8
DHenry
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I believe a good dealership would love to monitor this site and I also think that the service managers should be required by their employer to monitor the posts about good or bad service the consumers are getting. This way they can improve on their service and that will bring them more customers which is good for Keystone and all their vendors. There is nothing more important to a dealership than there customers and the second most valuable is their employees, both must be taken care of to be successful in business.
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Old 08-03-2009, 10:29 AM   #9
blamb
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I don't think they'd go so far as to be vindictive, but that's beside the point. I see what you all are saying. To a point. And I wasn't talking about those who no longer own keystone's or sell other things. I was referring ONLY to those who we must deal with in getting our RV's repaired, those whom we come here to say "don't deal with such and so, this is why." Those who can directly affect the service we receive if they decide they don't like what we say about them.

I can see the benefits, too, I guess I didn't realize that those of us who are rather helpless and can't fight grudges due to complaint on here are in the minority. I don't like the feeling of not being able to be part of the group here and bring my frustrations here for support because if the dealership I am dealing with should have a grudge against me because of what I said here I am pretty much screwed. I can't simply take my RV elsewhere. And I can't just keep making phone calls up the food chain either, I'm deaf. It's not that easy for me to fight it like it is for the rest of you. I have a lot going against me just in the fact that I am young, and a female who is doing this alone. I don't get a lot of respect when it comes to stuff like this. This is not about me being afraid to say anything to their face. This is about me getting screwed over if they just sort of overlook my emails and "forget" to respond to me because of what I've written on here, and me having no place else to go to. I need support, but it's hard to do that when it means possibly burning very necessary bridges.
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Old 08-03-2009, 10:33 AM   #10
blamb
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It's not a big deal anyway. It was just an idea.
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Old 08-03-2009, 01:01 PM   #11
Parrothead
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His name leaves me at the moment but look how much we all learned from the great member who was from Lippert. He went out of his way to help a lot of members. Very glad he was there. Also the member from a phone company. Very, very helpful. Our dealer was not a member but had he been I would not have hesitated to tell how unhappy we were with their service.
Happy trails.............................
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Old 08-03-2009, 01:19 PM   #12
SlickWillie
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Blamb, I think I would send the dealer a certified letter, detailing the issues with failure to repair warrantied items. I typed up a letter for a friend who had a top end SOB that was having warranty issues. The manufacturer then paid for his fuel for him to pull the unit from here on the coast in TX to IN for repairs. Be sure and request that the company have to sign for the letter, and be sure to keep copies of everything. One other route might be to call your state attorney general's office and complain. I know our AG here in TX recently filed suit against a chain appliance store here for failure to honor warranties. Good luck.
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Old 08-03-2009, 01:52 PM   #13
Glenn and Lorraine
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Sue, That was MIMF aka Dale Brubaker and he is still around. In fact he was just at the Great Lakes Rally.
The other is EVDOalex and he works for 3Gstore.com

blamb, There is no way on God's green earth for any admin to know who is a Montana owner and who is not. There is also no way to tell if this new member is a business owner, dealer, service tech, salesman you name.
Not to be smart but just think about this, So far as I know you have never met any MOCer face to face and so no one can actually vouch for what you say you are. So who's to say that you aren't just some antagonist trying to start trouble between the MOC and it's many members who just happen to work for some RV dealer or whatever.
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Old 08-03-2009, 02:10 PM   #14
blamb
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Glenn and Lorraine
blamb, There is no way on God's green earth for any admin to know who is a Montana owner and who is not. There is also no way to tell if this new member is a business owner, dealer, service tech, salesman you name.
It's not foolproof and never will be but if it were stated on the front page I'm sure not every keystone dealer would disregard it, either. And actually, you're wrong, it's not infeasible, maybe not easy but not infeasible, I actually know this having been an administrator of a far more complex forum than one such as this, there are ways to know who is who if you know your way around networks and computers. Administrators of internet forums (depending on the type of forum and their know how) have far more information about you than you think. I've tracked down an internet stalker, right down to his physical address. So there ARE ways, if you wanted to put that much time and energy into it. It says "webmaster" under your username... it seems to me you ought to be fully aware of these things yourself by now (unless you only handle the basic webpage and not the coding and administration of the forum, or this forum was a free one with a admin UI elsewhere). Personally I would never expect anyone to go that much work over every new member, I sure as hell never would have, but my point was it wouldn't be unreasonable to make it a rule of the community about those who affect the quality of service not joining, if it were something that were warranted.

Quote:
quote:Not to be smart but just think about this, So far as I know you have never met any MOCer face to face and so no one can actually vouch for what you say you are. So who's to say that you aren't just some antagonist trying to start trouble between the MOC and it's many members who just happen to work for some RV dealer or whatever.
Actually, snfexpress and wife has met me. Just because I don't have the ability to go to all these cliquey rallies doesn't make me any less of a member than the rest of you that have met face to face. I didn't realize attending rallies was a requirement for being taken seriously here. And I've learned that even when you have met someone face to face, you still don't know always know who they really are.



As I said, it was JUST an idea, no need to antagonize.
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Old 08-03-2009, 03:44 PM   #15
TheCoachPotatoes
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Blamb,

If I were you I would take the advise of Slick Willie. It seems like you may have some legal recourse here. You have definately been getting a run around from your dealer. You will soon be out of waranty and should act now. You need to make sure that everything that is wrong with your unit is documented. Waranty issues can sometimes be fixed at a later date, if there is documentation that the problem occured before the waranty expired. Your lack of cooperation from the dealer may be because you aren't firm enough. I realize you are somewhat limited in your ability to talk with them because of your hearing problems, but nothing beats the written word. Put it in writing!! Get it touch with any agency that can help you. Read what Slick Willie says. It is good advise. Don't worry about who is on this forum, it should be an advantage. Good luck

Al and Nita
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Old 08-03-2009, 03:55 PM   #16
Mrs. CountryGuy
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TOTAL TOPIC DRIFT

Blamb:

You said:

"Just because I don't have the ability to go to all these cliquey rallies doesn't make me any less of a member than the rest of you that have met face to face. I didn't realize attending rallies was a requirement for being taken seriously here."

I am sorry you feel that our Rally's are CLIQUEY. I have been to several Rally's and honestly I don't think they are cliquey. All members are invited to ANY Rally anywhere in the US.

I do not believe that attending Rallys or NOT has anything at all to do with how seriously you are taken here at the MOC.

With over 4000 members, and with approximately 76 attending the Fall Rally (come Sept 2009) you are not the only one who cannot for whatever reason, attend a Rally. Many other MOC members cannot attend because they are working or are sick or have prior commitments. However, this does not make the Rally a Clique.

END TOPIC DRIFT

I am with the others, get your situation and problems to the attention of the dealer and Keystone, and do it by CERTIFIED MAIL, RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED WITH SIGNATURE REQUIRED. No not wait to do this.


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Old 08-03-2009, 04:50 PM   #17
Glenn and Lorraine
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I really don't want to turn this into a peeing match but although I do not have any control over this particular forum and yes I am the webmaster montanaowners.com. BUT as far as tracing individuals via their IP is rather simple for those that have the knowledge, which I do, and the time to work thru it. You see at one time I myself did have 3 different forums all running at the same time. There were many times that I traced an individual back to his home computer and via an email explained why they were no longer invited to participate. BUT there was nothing stopping that same individual from using a different IP and returning with a different User ID.
Now having said that, I would appreciate your explaining exactly how you could possibly tell what that individual does for a living as other than his IP you have nothing. YES you could possibly get their street address if the IP was unscrupulous enough to share such info. No IP in his right mind would divulge such information to leave himself open for a lawsuit.

Now as far as your statement "It's not foolproof and never will be but if it were stated on the front page I'm sure not every keystone dealer would disregard it, either." The very name Montana Owners Club should be all the information any individual or business should require.


OK, For the Admins, I do believe I may have pushed this thread a bit to far and you decide to delete this reply I will totally understand. In the mean time I can feel I got my message across.

I have said my piece and at this time I will leave this thread never to return.
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Old 08-03-2009, 04:56 PM   #18
kerry
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I,ve found that just owning a Montana is not what makes this forum. I work at a dealership, and I am also an RV'er. I've been involved with the RV business almost 30 yrs, and have owned a camper for the best part of 30 yrs. This forum is a comradery of people who share thoughts, ideas, and experiences. If I have a question I know I will get an honest answer, and if someone has a question or a problem, I'll try and answer or help to the best of my ability. I've owned several Keystone products, three of them were Montana's. Presently own a SOB, but may own a Montana again someday. If there are those who wish I not participate on the forum, I shall comply but I shall still continue to read the forum, a lot of good people, and a lot of good ideas.

Kerry Sears - Burdette Camping Center - Winfield, WV
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Old 08-03-2009, 05:04 PM   #19
RVWheels
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The owner/administrator of this Forum has set the rules for membership. The general rule is that to be a member one needs to be a Montana Owner or seeking information regarding the Montana line of RVs. The current policy does not preclude a dealer or manufacturer from MOC membership.

There aren't any plans to change our current membership policy. Every member, however, is expected to adhere to the MOC Mission Statement.

Please do not "flame" one another. Failure to adhere to this basic requirement will result in Administrative action(s).

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