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Old 01-29-2009, 05:12 AM   #41
NewFlyLady
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I have been reading this thread with great interest as we bought our Montana from Bish's in Idaho Falls. If I were you I would contact the owner Tadd Jenkins and make him aware of your experience. I am sure he would be interested in how his company is perceived. It can be a big help to go right to the top in this instance.
 
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Old 01-29-2009, 10:40 AM   #42
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews
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Yea! A fellow Bish's customer! We were, and hope to continue to be again, very satisfied Bish's customers. Our buying experience couldn't have been better--great salesman and great follow-up after the sale--and always, Bish's had a full lot of Montanas and Big Skys to look at and and a clean, well-stocked showroom. All I can think of to account for what's happened since then is that a change of personnel in the service department, including several service manager changes (so we were told) did contribute to the problem we now have.

I have called Tadd Jenkins several times but he's never returned a call. Two of those times I had to leave messages with someone to give to him, but the last time I was finally given his voicemail, and thought surely I'd hear from him. I didn't. We were supposed to hear from Melissa, the new person at Bish's who's taken over our case, by today at the latest--no call yet, and it's nearly 4:00 PM. I am going to give her another hour to call, but if she doesn't, I'll call Mr. Jenkins again as well as calling the Keystone customer service rep who has stepped in to work with us and Bish's.

I'm still holding onto the hope that that Bish's is a good place, but that we just had the rotten luck to fall into the hands of people who didn't do their jobs or left the dealership without being sure the service department didn't drop the ball with our rig. We want to upgrade to a newer/different Montana floor plan for fulltiming, but first, we'll have to see how this present problem plays out.

Carolyn
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Old 01-29-2009, 12:06 PM   #43
NewFlyLady
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Not only are we Bish's customers but we also have a place in Montana on the Madison River. Small world. I am very surprised that Tadd did not return your call. That is unforgivable for customer relations. Don't feel alone in your trials. We have had a number of problems with a dealer in Washington where our Monty is right now. I get upset just thinking about it so I won't go into details. Even though our original salesman left we got a call every 3 months from a new sales person to see how things were going and helped out by calling both the dealer sevice department and Keystone a number of times. So far our experience with Bish's has been positive but with the Washington dealer, not so much.
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Old 01-30-2009, 09:33 AM   #44
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews
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Sailer, I tried going that route with Keystone, but no dice, at least not 2 weeks ago. Keystone was going to get Bish's on the stick and get my rig fixed and out of there. However, once again we've been dealt the DUMMY card--no call from Bish's (as promised) and no call from Keystone (also as promised). I've called both places and played the voicemail game; no return calls.

For all of you MOCer's who've said I had a lot of patience, here's an update on that: NO MORE PATIENCE! I am mad as a hornet now. The very least Keystone and Bish's could do is call us with the update as promised.

Carolyn
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Old 01-30-2009, 12:30 PM   #45
racerjoe
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sounds like they have had it longer than you. It is time for the legal system to take this over. I know there is no lemon law but you do have rights. You have gone over and above the norm. I would get my money back so you can start again. What a shame in this economy they are treating you this way.

GOOD LUCK
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:16 PM   #46
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews
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Racerjoe, as you read, my patience with this whole thing has come to an end. I can understand delays, I can understand service crews being cut to minimal numbers, I can understand that our rig isn't the only one around needing service, but I cannot understand treating customers (who've been nothing but polite and patient) as we've been treated. We've been lied to, misinformed, given false info because one person or another at Bish's can't find the work order or can't physically find our rig on the lot. It's inexcusable, no matter what the problems on Bish's end are. All we've asked for is to be updated on the progress of the repairs so that WE don't have to initiate every call to Bish's. Just call and let us know something, Bish's--don't ignore us.

Monday is action day. As soon as I have my prep period at school, I'll be on the phone to Keystone and to Bish's. At this point, we don't even want our rig back. We want our money back or a new unit (well, we can dream, can't we?). In addition to the repairs which may or may not ever be finished, we have no way of knowing what else might have happened to our Montana as it sits on a lot through an Idaho winter, complete with snow and below-0 temperatures. It's one thing to live in it during our winters, but quite another to let it sit unheated through a winter.

I am so mad at the moment that I could easily rip some heads off, starting down the road at Bish's. There is absolutely NO excuse for what has happened to us and our Montana.

Carolyn
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:44 PM   #47
Okie Guy
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This is completely unacceptable! Make sure you contact the better business bureau and if they don't produce your trailer in a couple of days first file a police report then call the state attorney generals office and file a complaint. This dealer needs a reminder they are servicing a customer and not scamming people.
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Old 02-02-2009, 12:27 PM   #48
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews
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Monday, February 2. Since I haven't heard from Keystone or Bish's as of today, I started in with my calls to both after lunch.

Bish's: "May I speak to the owner, please?" "He has someone with him in the office (Always--I've never called that he doesn't have someone in there. Maybe business is picking up . . . ) Would you like his voicemail?" "Yes, I would." Whirr, click . . . dead line. I called back. "May I speak to the owner, please?" "He has someone . . . would you like his voicemail?" "Yes." I left a polite but detailed reminder of our problems getting our rig out of Bish's service department. I asked the owner to call me and left my name and cell phone number, again. He did not return my call. This is the THIRD time during the last 2 months that I've asked him to call me; he's never returned a call.

So, I called Keystone and started at the top with the President. "May I speak to Ron Fenech, please?" "Does Mr. Fenech know you?" "Well, he doesn't now but he will." "I'm sorry--you will have to speak to his administrative assistant since he doesn't know you." (Dang--I should have lied, but then again, I would be no better than the people who are telling me tales now, right?) Whirr, click--the assistant's VOICEMAIL. I left a detailed summary of my problem, my name, my phone number, and said I could send a copy of the phone/fax log of my efforts to get my rig serviced. The administrative assistant didn't return my call.

At 3:00, a customer service rep from Keystone called to see if Bish's had kept me updated as they'd promised to do when I last spoke to Melissa on January 20th. No--I didn't get the call that was promised for early last week--no calls at all. So, the Keystone rep said "Well, you've certainly kept a positive attitude through all of this, I must say." I told her that I'm still positive--POSITIVELY livid over repeatedly getting the runaround.

I pointed out that we'd made monthly trailer payments on a rig we hadn't seen and couldn't use for over 6 months now because it was sitting on the dealer's lot in Idaho Falls. I also said we are worried that if and when we get it back, there's no way to check for cracked tanks, problems in the washer and sink drain lines, etc., because we wouldn't be de-winterizing the unit until late April or early May. Because our RV is now out of the original warranty period, we did not want to get stuck paying for damage/repairs that happened while the unit sat outside in below-freezing temperatures in Idaho for the last few months. I specifically mentioned the potential damage to the vinyl flooring, water lines, tanks, television, and anything else that long periods of extreme cold might damage.

The Keystone rep said she would call Bish's right then and see what the problem was nat this point. The rig was supposed to be finished and ready for pickup by the end of last week. I didn't get a call back today from Keystone, but I imagine Keystone isn't having an easy time getting answers, either.

The story continues . . . and while I'm still borderline calm and polite when I'm calling people (because being ugly won't help anything), I'm over-the-top furious at the treatment we've received from Bish's. It's uncalled for, and it's a far, far cry from the way we were treated as we shopped for and bought our rig there.

Carolyn
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Old 02-02-2009, 12:47 PM   #49
HamRad
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Is the salesperson who helped you still with Bish? If so have you tried going through her/him? Just a thought. At this point I doubt it would help much anyway.

The fact that the owner will not talk to you bothers me. I find that totally unacceptable. At this point he should be working hard to reassure you and to get your rig fixed and back to you ASAP!

Dennis
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:55 PM   #50
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews
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Unfortunately, our salesman isn't at Bish's now, at least he isn't for the winter season. I've asked about him several times and received vague answers. We sure did like him, too, and I believe that he would have gone to bat for us at Bish's. If nothing else, he was a reliable contact at the dealership, someone who would have physically gone out to the service bays to see what was going on with our unit. We hope he's only gone because of the cutback in staff during the winter months, but with the economy the way it is, he may not ever be back. My mood wasn't helped with the news about Keystone and Jayco having big layoffs and plant closings today.

Carolyn
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:51 AM   #51
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews
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Tuesday, 1:30 MST:

Early this morning my cell phone began ringing. Bish's! Keystone! Bish's! Keystone! Apologies all around, with proof that our RV is now being well-cared for and the repairs are nearly finished in spite of our rig falling through the cracks at the dealership for the last 6+ months. The apologies don't excuse the way we've been treated during that time, but they do go a long way in making us feel as though we are valued buyers and that Bish’s and Keystone do want to take care of their customers. To the credit of everyone who called, we weren't asked to excuse or accept without comment the runarounds and cavalier treatment we received. Over and over I heard "We are SO sorry. What happened to you and your Montana is inexcusable. It isn't acceptable under any circumstances." Then we were given a plan of action. I like plans, especially when they include dates, tasks, names, and phone numbers.

One thing that keeps me going is that Bish's undoubtedly was the nicest, most professionally-run dealership we encountered in our search for a Montana (in 2 states, Texas and in Idaho). Our salesman, Jerry Beck, was exceptional and stayed available to us for weeks and weeks after we took delivery of our 3585. (We'd previously owned a Cardinal, so we weren't strangers to 5th-wheelers, but we hadn't had an RV since 1999, and everything was new to us again.) Speaking of Jerry, GOOD NEWS. He's back at Bish's after a winter furlough! We would most definitely buy from him again, without a doubt.

My desk is covered with names, numbers, and contact info for everyone who called today, people who do seem to have the grit and determination to stay with us until our rig is back in our hands. Once more, I'll go out on a limb and say that until I have reason to think otherwise, I have a gut feeling that tells me we are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I hope so--we love our Montana 3585--love it. We want Keystone to stay very busy and in operation a long, long time, and we want Bish’s to continue to be a successful dealership.

Thumbs up for now, and I hope another thumbs up report shortly!

Carolyn
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Old 02-03-2009, 09:07 AM   #52
Mrs. CountryGuy
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Fingers crossed for ya, enough is enough, maybe enough is now!!
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Old 02-03-2009, 02:27 PM   #53
Roamingusa
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Hi,
We had a problem with a dealership over in Bakersfield CA. It was re: a washer/dryer combo. We were having problems and wanted to return it. I went 2 weeks trying to get a hold of the manager, always no return call. I called them for the very last time telling them I was coming down to their showroom with TV cameras and reporters from the local news for the full story...... We were able to return the unit that afternoon with a full refund. Amazing HUH? LOL
I sure hope things work out for you, I know it is very frustrating.
Chris
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:01 PM   #54
sailer
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Good luck on the return of your unit , I hope it was winterized the rite way as we don't do that here in florida but if i was in wisconsin as we are from we would have learned that.. there is no reason it should take more than 2 weeks to fix anything , even though ours was held up , the 2006 , for 4 months here in fl and you almost become friends or enemys with the dealership,, no reason, and no reason for keystone to let it go more than the 2 weeks , if this was a truck from ford or gmc or dodge , you would have called the pres of the us ,,, sailer
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Old 02-03-2009, 04:15 PM   #55
kwolff7
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You are certainly much nicer and forgiving than I would be. I would never buy anything from Bish's and I will do my best to go right through Idaho with my fifth wheel and hope to never have to stop for service in Idaho Falls. Apparently Montana has very little pull with Bish's or I think something should have been taken care of sooner.
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Old 02-04-2009, 05:37 AM   #56
sfretts
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Hi,

I read your posts and was scared to death about taking our Mountaineer in for warranty work. I kept having nightmares about your encounter. The good news is, we took it to Tacoma RV, gave themm the list, did a walk around with the service manager (who spotted a couple other minor problems and added to list) and left wondering and hoping we would have a better experience. Two days later, a call that all repairs were completed and we could P/U anytime. We had a set of JT stabilizers added at the same time. We were not able to get to the service center till after 4pm on A Saturday and as the parts manager was showing us the JT's, he noticed they had been installed wrong. He went and got his tools, fixed it with us watching taking him past quiting time. Great service and very nice people.

As for your situation, I had a ongoing service repair issue with Direct TV last winter. It is way to long and boring to go into but I had little tv for several weeks with repair tech after tech showing up and not fixing. Went past warranty and now they wanted to charge to fix.

I called the WA state Attorney Generals office consumer fraud division. She took the complaint and gave me the best advice ever for disputes like yours. She told me to go to the web page for the company, look at the bottom of the page and you will see a link for investor relations. Send this link an e-mail with all the information you have and be sure to include your complaint number with the consumer protection or fraud agency for your state. You can always call off the complaint when you are happy that the situation has been resolved. Make this complaint now even if you feel they may be close to resolving this issue. I made the complaint on Friday, received a phone call on Saturday from the office of the president of the company and the owner of the installation company was at my house by the following Wednesday.

If you filed this with both the dealership and Keystone, I can almost guarantee quick action with followup. I think the only reason they call every once in awhile is to string you along and I would suspect they found something else wrong. They try to appease you while actually stalling.

Good luck on your quest.

Steve
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:47 AM   #57
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews
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The light at the end of the tunnel grew considerably brighter today, with calls coming in from everyone at Bish's and at Keystone who promised to call us. Even better, we were given some options about picking up our rig, which is great, because I have been concerned about getting down the road with it and discovering cracks in our black and gray water tanks, leaking water lines, etc.--things we couldn't check until the rig was de-winterized and we'd run water through the lines and thoroughly checked the hot water heater and the Splendide washer hoses. We have a plan now; our Montana won't leave the dealership until it's pressure-tested and we go through everything that was on the repair list. That's what we wanted.

We are again seeing the Bish's dealership as the one we came to know and love when we were shopping for a 5th-wheeler. While my story still isn't over (and won't be until I can see, touch, and check out our 3585), the end is in sight. I believe it, truly. There will never be a good excuse for failing to return calls, check on progress, etc., but Bish's apparently has had a string of people "here today, gone tomorrow" in the service department, so it's understandable that the ball gets dropped occasionally (only occasionally--not repeatedly and for months,as it was in our case ).

In a perfect world, he departing service person would have made sure that the new person was familiar with every service file, for openers, and then followed through with whatever was necessary to get the work done. For some reason, that didn't happen with our RV. I'm also kicking myself for being so complacent and passive and not checking with Bish's on a daily basis after our rig had been there far too long for the work it needed. Instead, I'd call a couple of times a month, leave messages, and wait for my calls to be returned. You cannot believe how that is SO unlike my normal behavior. I'm admittedly the poster child for OCD (just ask my husband, my kids, and my students); documentation is my name, and following up is my game, always. I think that building a new home at the same time that we were waiting on our Montana affected my brain. Too many details, names, phone numbers, dates, invoices, etc., all at the same time.)

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being the worst, I'd rate this Montana-adventure day a solid 8 or 9 . It's so nice when people follow through with their promises.

Now I can enjoy planning our route to the upcoming spring MOC rally. I've been reluctant to get too excited about it because for a while, I didn't think we'd have our Montana to "rally in"!

Carolyn
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:48 PM   #58
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews
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Today, as promised, Cindy from Bish's called to let me know the last awnings had arrived from Carefree. Tomorrow our rig is scheduled to go back into a service bay and have those two awnings installed. The last step before pickup is the de-winterizing and pressure-testing to be sure our Monty didn't develop any problems over the winter.

After all the delays, and after I moved from the passive to aggressive mode, we do want you to know that #1, Bish's (and Cindy) have been right on schedule with the calls to use with the updates on parts arrivals, etc., and #2, Keystone has followed up with its calls to double-check with us that things are progressing as planned. Are we happy? You bet we are!

On another note, the layoffs at Keystone are troubling, not just for folks who depend on Keystone to be there, building the best RVs on the road, but more so because of the uncertain future for those Keystone employoees losing their jobs. As you no doubt know, unemployment in Elkhart is at an all-time high, 15.3%, shocking in itself, but even more shocking when you consider that last year, the figure was at 4.3%.

We've been through layoffs ourselves when the oil business in Texas went to pieces. Wayne was laid off from Schlumberger (in Texas, 1981), and neither he nor anyone else on the "mud end" were ever called back to work. We were lucky, however, because other jobs were available, although they paid less than half of what Wayne had been making. Still, a job is a job when times are tough.

So, Keystone, we are pulling for you to survive these hard times. You make a beautiful RV. Thanks for stepping in to help us; we appreciate it.

I will be back with updates, but there aren't many things left to update at this point. We finally feel encouraged enough to have our maps spread out, planning our trip to the 7 Feathers rally. Oh--we have a new Garmin nuvi 760 to play with, too, before we hit the road. Wayne is in charge of learning how to use it. He doesn't do computers, by choice, but if he wants the Garmin up and running in our TV when we leave for Oregon, he's going to have to deal with it himself. (Don't tell him, but I already know how to set up and use it. )

Carolyn
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Old 02-10-2009, 04:29 PM   #59
racerjoe
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I must say that the two of you have been the most patient people that I have ever seen in a situation like you have had. You have been blessed with the right personalities, and give you a lot of credit for putting up with it. Bish's and keystone should thank their lucky stars.
Good luck on your adventures... if you have any of that patience left over could you pass it on!!!
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Old 02-11-2009, 10:22 AM   #60
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews
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Patience is a virtue, I guess, until it lapses into passiveness. If I'd stepped up my calls to the dealer sooner, the problem wouldn't have dragged on 6+ months. But, that was then, and this is now, and for the moment, "now" is great.

Today (Wednesday) I got another call from Cindy at Bish's to let me know that things are still on schedule. She also wanted to know where the remote to our TV was (it never worked and was supposed to be replaced). She said if the replacement wasn't there, it would be ordered immediately. Once again, service as promised!

Carolyn
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