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Old 01-20-2009, 01:30 PM   #21
rames14
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Carolyn -

I am impressed by your patience. I would have been long gone to a lawyer. Hope you get it back soon. I do believe the issue is the dealer.
 
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Old 01-20-2009, 01:41 PM   #22
Waynem
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Carolyn,
You would be amazed at what you will get done when you start asking for "lemon law," brochures and paperwork. It seems to open their minds a little broader. Check in your state on what can be done to invoke the lemon law. Here in texas, after reasonable attempts, a letter to the dealer and the manufacturer is needed. After that letter they have a "reasonable" amount of time to fix the problem or you get a new unit.

Just a thought.

Sometimes the honey does not work and vinegar is needed to sweeten the deal.

Listen up Keystone. There are people out there that love your product and you are not helping the situation. They may go somewhere else for their next best deal.
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Old 01-20-2009, 05:18 PM   #23
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews
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Ah, yes, the Lemon Law. Somewhere else on the forum I posted an experience I had with a Houston car dealer and the Lemon Law in 1988. I won the case, so I know with the right amount of grit and determination, the little guy can win a dispute with the big guy(s). It would be so much easier to do this time around, too, because when I filed that Lemon Law complaint in 1988, computers were a rarity in the home, and I had to use a typewriter (gasp! ) to write all the reports, document all the calls, repairs, who said what, the outcomes, etc. It took hours because I'm admittedly OCD and had to have every page perfect--no whiteouts, no typeovers. I believe the file was an inch or more thick by the time Ford settled with me. Along the way, I even received a veiled threat once or twice, and I can't tell you how many times I was referred to as "the little lady," "honey," and other terms that were condesending, at the least, as in "Now why don't you just drive that little car home and whip up a cake instead of fighting a battle you won't win, darling?"

NOTE: It's not that I don't enjoy being called honey, darling, etc., and I sure do like having doors opened for me. But I didn't like it coming from those car guys because I knew they weren't using the terms like real Texas gentlemen would.

Well, this little lady/honey/darling Texas gal whipped the big bad wolves. New car--my choice (Ford or Mercury product) and restitution for gas used to take the old one all over south Texas for repairs. It was a moral victory as well as a tangible victory, and it felt GOOD!

One thing--I was polite from start to finish, no threats, no bad language or tears, although many days I left a dealership hot enough to fry an egg on my head. I knew, however, that bad behavior on my part wasn't going to help. So, I practiced breathing in, breathing out, and other relaxation techniques before and after every meeting with someone from Ford. (OK, so I did have a beer now and then after I got home--it helped, too! ).

Carolyn
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Old 01-20-2009, 08:25 PM   #24
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Carolyn,

I'm glad you won your "lemon law" contest with Ford. That's always nice! But I don't think you can apply the lemon law here because the 5er does not have a motor and I believe you need that to file under the lemon law. It sounds to me like you just have very poor service options up your direction. Keystone has been known to work with individual repair stations to get a rig working. So perhaps that is the direction to go. There comes a point where enough is enough! Best of luck.

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Old 01-21-2009, 02:24 AM   #25
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Carolyn,

Sorry to hear about your problems with your dealership. Just a thought about the next consumer in the neighborhood. Have you reported the dealership the the Better Business Bureau. I didn't belong to them when I owned the kennel, but I did have a letter from them once. I had to explain why the client wasn't happy, and why we did everything to please her.

Our dealership closed and there place in New Braunfels stopped carrying Montanas. We will see what kind of work the new one in Buda will do when we get home to Driftwood. We have several items that need to be fixed.

Colleen
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Old 01-21-2009, 10:29 AM   #26
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews
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Yes, Virginia, there IS a Santa Claus . . . or a light at the end of this tunnel . . . or whatever applies.

Melissa, another service rep from Bish's, has contacted me several times in the last 2 days with updates, progress reports, and other things we've waited for months to hear. I think I've already said that for whatever reason, she seems to be the person who's having to take over, put the pieces together, and get our RV rolling again. She's a good customer rep, too--calls when she promises to call, returns calls, has definite info for us, and does it with a "it will be taken care of" attitude.

She called this morning to tell us that Carefree confirmed that it has the awning order; production will take up to 72 hours, probably. As soon as the awnings arrive at Bish's, they will be put on immediately. As for the sink/counter replacement--it's FINISHED and has been finished for some time. The "waiting on the supplier and Keystone" report we received December 30th was incorrect. The work was already completed at that point. (I still think our rig was confused with another customer's rig for a while, especially when we were told that ours had been hauled "to Pocatello, as requested." Pocatello?")

Melissa said our July work order with all the needed repairs listed shows that everything but the awnings has been done. However, she asked me to fax a copy of what I'd given to the service department so that she could double-check my list against what the service order listed. If there are omissions or discrepencies, she said they would be taken care of so that we can (deep breath here) pick up our rig ASAP.

If this truly is the last stage of our journey to get our rig fixed, we will be some very happy campers, both literally and figuratively. I believe that Bish's and Melissa are doing their best at this point to make up for all the problems we had in getting service for those (mostly) minor tweaks and repairs we needed. Even though it's taken half a year to get the work done, if it's done completely and correctly, we can live with the delay.

Some final words (until I can post the news next week that we've been called to pick up our Montana ): We shopped several dealers and one other brand of RV before deciding that Bish's was the best place to buy the best RV--a Montana. The salesmen were patient and knowledgeable, never pushy. The dealership was clean and well-stocked and the inventory of RV's was staggering--more models and more of each model (Big Sky, Montana, and many others) than we found anywhere, including at a big RV dealership in Houston, Texas. Our salesman, Jerry Beck, was helpful from start to finish. When we had to bring the rig back for a minor fix about a month after we bought it, he handled everything--putting in the service request, meeting us when we arrived, calling us when the work was done, and being sure that we approved the repair before we left the lot with our RV. We were even invited into the service bay to look at the progress of the repair and get an explanation from the technician working on the rig. (If Jerry weren't off for the winter, I know he would have stepped in and we would have had our rig back months ago.)

With our expectations sky high, after our buying experience and first repair experience with Bish's, this July to January service experience was a huge disappointment, along with at least a temporary loss of faith in the dealership. However, if the repairs on our Montana go smoothly in the next week, and if we really can go pick up the rig, we'll chalk up our experience as an anomaly, something that normally doesn't happen at Bish's. It's been a shocker, for sure, but if Bish's is still the dealership we thought it was when we decided to buy there, I have a feeling that a "falling through the cracks" situation won't happen again to us or anyone else.


Carolyn
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Old 01-21-2009, 11:09 AM   #27
adelmoll
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What a refreshing attitude Carolyn. Our hats are off to you. Keystone should be very grateful to have you as one of their owners. I hope we all can take a lesson from you.

Helen
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Old 01-21-2009, 01:03 PM   #28
Icehouse
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I must admit Carolyn, that if this had happened to me, I would NEVER purchase another Keystone product and I'd avoid that dealer like the plague. Let's hope you don't have to take the rig back in the future. If you do, I'd suggest another dealer... There's just no excuse for some things...
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Old 01-21-2009, 04:29 PM   #29
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews
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Icehouse! We've missed you!

Finding another dealer isn't an easy option. The next closest one has a less-than-sterling record for service (makes my story look absolutely wimpy). Even so, that guy is 3.5 hours away. After that, it's a 7 hour drive to the next one, and I'm not even sure he's still open.

As you know from living where you live, getting things done in remote areas isn't as easy as if you lived in Anchorage or I lived in Austin. It's a trade-off, this living in the boondocks. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's a pain in the ear.
Carolyn

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Old 01-22-2009, 01:34 AM   #30
bncinwv
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Carolyn,
Just a thought here, but if I were in your shoes, I think that either the dealer or Keystone should offer some compensation for the duress that you have been put through. I would approach them (both parties insistently) that since they have had the rig for six months and now possibly more, the warranty coverage should be extended by a like amount. Fair is fair, you have been denied the use of your rig under the original warranty period because of their ineptitude, therefore they should be willing to bear the cost for you if something breaks two months after the warranty expires.
Bingo
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Old 01-22-2009, 03:53 AM   #31
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Let me know if you've had any results yet, Kerry
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:42 AM   #32
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews
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Bingo, Cathy, & Kerry--I will let you know how this story ends. So far as extending the original 1-year warranty, we had only 2 months left on it, but 2 months are 2 months, and I think asking for a two-month extension after we finally get our rig back is a reasonable request.

Today, at the request of Melissa at Bish's, I did send her a copy of the warranty-work repair list I gave to the service department when we brought the trailer in for service last July. 99% of the work could have been finished in less than a day, so I hope that everything on the list was taken care of and that the only holdups were the awnings and kitchen counter/sink. We'll go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before we leave the lot, but some of the things probably can't be checked because the rig has been winterized (it better have been). I won't be able to test the kitchen faucet problem (hot water "clunking" off) and the leaking toilet, for openers.

Not only will we be glad to get our Montana back, but we need some of the clothing we left in it such as winter jackets, pacs, gloves, etc.--things we didn't need in July and didn't dream we wouldn't have when winter set in because our rig would still be in Idaho Falls. Lesson learned.

Carolyn
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:53 AM   #33
bncinwv
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Do not take their word on the winterization, it needs to be checked before you leave the lot. Low point drains should be pink, and visible lines (under sinks, etc. should be pink. Good luck.
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:26 PM   #34
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews
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Thanks, Bingo, for the reminder to check for winterization. If it wasn't done, we're probably already in trouble, because Idaho Falls has had the below 0 temperatures we've had over here in Montana. I'll think positively until I see evidence to the contrary with my own eyes. I really do thank you for bring that "pink look" to my attention.

And, here's the latest on my trailer: A service rep from Keystone called early this morning to see if I'd heard from the dealership and to determine what the status of the repairs was (or was supposed to be). Keystone wasn't the holdup for the sink and countertop; the dealership failed to order that replacement until early October. The awning problem was also the dealership's, not Keystone's problem. The dealer didn't report the claim in a timely manner. (Keystone did the paperwork trail on that one, and the awnings are being replaced under warranty.)

I told the rep that if things continued to perk along as they have this week, we were told we could probably get our Montana by the end of next week. The rep said that was nice, but that she was going to call the dealership herself after we got off the phone, go over the list of repairs that were supposed to be done, and see what she could learn. She felt that a call from Keystone might be the key to getting action on everything. She also said she would call me back early next week after she had definite information on what the status of my Montana was.

I was patient far too long with the dealer and should have gone directly to Keystone a second time in October (already been there, done that, in September, when the dealership told us Keystone wouldn't replace the awnings.

I know I have more than one "angel in the background" out there, fellow MOCers who have PM'd us and told us they had contacts here and there who could help--and would we mind if they called those contacts? Would we mind? Heck no--eternally grateful is what we'd be. So, you wonderful MOC friends probably had a lot to do with the action we're seeing now from our dealer and Keystone. Thank you, thank you, thank you--we appreciate your help.

Sometime next week, I hope to have the last chapter of this thread written, and written with a happy ending! I'll be back to let you know.

Carolyn
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Old 01-24-2009, 11:00 AM   #35
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I live but a few miles from Bishes, and can tell you I've heard this tale before. I believe I would notify them, when you come to pick it up, that you want your rig setup in a service bay where it's warm, so everything can be properly checked. That way there's no doubt everything on your list is done to your satisfaction.
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Old 01-24-2009, 12:39 PM   #36
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Carolyn,

You really do need to ask for your warranty to be extended. We should have done the same thing since Orangewood RV had ours for a long time. We did in effect get an extended warranty, because we found problems on our trip last summer, around the one year anniversary date, called Keystone while we were on the road, and took it to RV Traders, 2 months after warranty and they fixed everything under warranty.

Karen
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Old 01-24-2009, 03:44 PM   #37
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews
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Gramps, we really wish the weather were warmer so that not only could we check the rig out in a warm bay, but so we could stay on the lot for at least a day and night and use the fridge, water lines, shower, hot water heater, slides, etc., just to be sure nothing was damaged while the thing sat outside for months and be sure that all the work was done. But, we can't de-winterize it, unfortunately, because we're still going to have zero and below temperatures where we live for another 2+ months, and even after that, we'll have well-below freezing nights for another 2 months.

I think I'll see if the dealer will agree that if anything is wrong, once we take the trailer out again in April or May, we can take it back for repairs. I've had sleepless nights thinking about the hot water heater, the black and gray tanks . . .

Now that Keystone has stepped in and contacted the dealer, I think I'll ask the Keystone rep to have the dealership guarantee some kind of agreement for me along those lines.

Carolyn
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Old 01-25-2009, 03:24 PM   #38
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I think you should get it unwinterzied and do everything needed and then re winterzize it as they will say it was not there problem but you did something wrong and you are going to pay to get it fixed,, sailer
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:26 AM   #39
Mrs. CountryGuy
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I totally agree with Sailer on this one!

Have them PROVE to you that your unit has no leaks due to winterizing failure.

There is NO way I would take that unit out of that dealership after all the mis-truths you have been fed.
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:34 PM   #40
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews
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Can you imagine the looks on the faces at Bish's when I ask them to reverse the winterizing so I can check for leaks, etc., and then to redo the winterizing because we have several winter months left up here? That might be worth the price of a trip to Idaho Falls!

It was 30 below zero when I left for work this morning. Tonight, at 8:30, it's already 25 below zero. Winterizing is not an optional job up here. We lived in the Monty during the last winter, so we didn't have to worry about cracking countertops and split tanks. This is a whole new ball game--leaving the rig at a dealership during this kind of weather. I agree with everyone who said we shouldn't take the dealer at his word regarding the winterizing that was to have been done.

Carolyn
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