Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > GENERAL DISCUSSIONS > Tow Vehicles & Towing
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-15-2019, 03:08 PM   #61
laverdur
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Albany
Posts: 407
M.O.C. #11972
You've really done your homework. One thing I found when I ordered my TV was that GVWR varied with tire size. The default tire was 20" but the 18" tire gave the highest GVWR. This is probably still true so if you order one, be sure to check that out. My dealer had to resubmit my order a couple of times because they kept messing up the tire size. Good luck.
 
__________________
2012 3150RL. G614 tires. Hardwired surge protector. Level-Up Hydraulic leveling.
2013 F-350 Lariat 6.7 PSD SRW SC LB 4X4 OEM hitch, air self-leveling on rear. 57-gallon replacement fuel tank. DieselSite water separator/fuel filter.
laverdur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2019, 03:23 PM   #62
Clarky
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Clarke
Posts: 7
M.O.C. #21766
Hi; Looks like your well on the way to understanding and making a decision that meets your needs and desires. I drive a 2016 F350 Lariate 4x4 SRW and it has handled my 3660RL Monty just fine. I am right at the limit and have to be extremely careful of my onboard cargo and weight distribution. Anyway, I just wanted to point out that the 2020 F350 Towing guide (page 25 note 4) limits the 5th wheel max weight to 18000lb due to its factory installed 5th wheel hitch limitations. Not sure of similar limitations with the other vehicles. (https://www.fleet.ford.com/resources...uide_Sep26.pdf) Lastly, the only true way to calculate any of the important specs is to weigh your trucks front axle and rear axles weight without the trailer but with normal load of passengers, tools, or whatever you normally carry in the truck. Then do it again with the trailer noting your rear axle weight again. With those figures you can make all the calculations you need to see if you are within your comfort range. For example my truck weighs 8593lbs with me, my wife, some tools, 5th wheel Hitch, folding tonneau cover, etc . So my GVWR 11500lbs - 8593lbs = 2907 lbs left for other cargo or PIN Weight. The newer trucks weigh less so that's why their available cargo / payload numbers have gone up as well. Anyway, good luck with your research.
Clarky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2019, 06:17 PM   #63
hosssmith
Seasoned Camper
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Brownwood
Posts: 86
M.O.C. #14197
There is more in this thread than I can read right now but I am glad to see it even though I am not in the buying mood.

I must point out that if you go SRW be (real) sure the tires are rated for the actual weight (not an estimate or book weight but actual scale weight) put on them (experience speaking!).

You mentioned that this truck may/will be a daily driver so if you choose to go with a DRW it will take a lot of dedication to put up with the continuing parking and turning problems.

Good luck with you choice!
hosssmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2019, 06:23 PM   #64
samroll
Established Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Simonton
Posts: 45
M.O.C. #22485
Does it really matter if a truck is rated to pull 31k or 32k? How heavy is the fiver? 15k? I have pulled with both Ram and Ford, I currently have a F350 DRW because I it has inarguably better stability than a SRW. That was my sole reason for going to DRW. The best advice I can give you is; Any of the trucks within the same classification (250 vs 2500 and 350 vs 3500) will pull pretty much the same with very little difference so pick out the truck you like the best. If you have some long days of pulling and travel in the west a lot I would recommend a DRW. Truth is, any of the trucks on your chart will pull your fiver fine.
__________________

2012 Montana 3582RL
2013 Ford F350SD King Ranch Dually
samroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2019, 06:28 PM   #65
jcurryii
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: somerville
Posts: 135
M.O.C. #12636
Have a 2011 Ram 2500 Crew cab swb auto that I pull my Monty 12k+# with. 55,000 miles with no problems. If buying again I would step up to the 3500 swb/srw. Can’t justify at present time.
jcurryii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2019, 06:56 PM   #66
DaveK
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Fredericksburg
Posts: 163
M.O.C. #23470
250 vs 350

When I ordered my 2019, I downloaded the Super Duty literature from the Ford web site. It was pretty good but needs to be read carefully. A regular salesman was no help. I ordered through the commercial truck salesman. He was knowledgeable. I believe the payload/pin weight is your most critical issue. Either truck can tow your 5th wheel, but only one might handle your loaded hitch weight.

When you think of pin weight, you should know pretty well how much the stuff in your basement storage weighs, because most of that weight is on the hitch. Plus if you have a front bedroom, you have weight of stuff in the wardrobe, dressers, and stuff stored under the bed. That stuff mostly rests on the hitch. It would not surprise me if your loaded pin weight is 800 pounds more than your empty pin weight.
DaveK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2019, 08:03 PM   #67
TBW Ventures
Seasoned Camper
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Calgary
Posts: 60
M.O.C. #21572
Have any of you considered the product ‘Haul Gauge’

https://www.haulgauge.com/

It seems to be a valuable tool for consideration if you are worried about pin weight, distribution etc. Complimenting this with the odd visit to the scales is something I am considering.
__________________
Perry & Karen, Calgary, Alberta
2017 F350 SRW CC 4X4 6.7L — 2018 Montana 3720RL
TBW Ventures is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2019, 09:34 PM   #68
CaptnJohn
Montana Master
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: South East NC
Posts: 1,768
M.O.C. #19865
My wife said my 2019 F350 4x4 dually was too long and too wide for her to drive. I told her the hips are only as wide as the mirrors and so what if you stick out a foot. She said never. I said great as it is my daily driver. Then she had to drive me to/from the hospital and it had her 2018 Edge Titanium blocked. Now her Edge sits in the garage with less than 5500 miles on it. She takes the dually unless I’m in it. She enjoys driving it and she is petite and 68 years old. My F350 srw made numbers on paper but not in real life. Not by a long shot except gvwr. Tires were ok and payload over by 1800# with the aux tank empty and wife walking the dog. I was fine with a High Country even with the washer and dryer up front (210# total).
No one wanted a long bed or dually less than me but need over rules want.
CaptnJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2019, 10:13 PM   #69
Buckfisher
Seasoned Camper
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Burnet
Posts: 85
M.O.C. #24564
I have a 2018 SRW 3500 Chevrolet Duramax 4x4. I have buddies that I often travel with who drive Ford 4x4 diesels. Towing, I use slightly less fuel than the Fords. Running empty, on the highway and obeying the speed limit, I often get 20 to 23 mpg. City driving is usually 18 to 19. My previous Chevrolet Duramax was almost as good. With the overall specs not clearly identifying a superior choice, I chose the fuel economy. My Chevys also spent a lot less time in the shop than their Fords.
Buckfisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2019, 12:56 AM   #70
catch up with the zzzz
Established Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: beachwood
Posts: 46
M.O.C. #23268
how to know your real numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CADman_KS View Post
-- WARNING: LONG POST AHEAD!!! --

I've come to the realization that we're going to need to get a new truck to pull our new 5er with, a 3741FK.

I've always been a Chevy guy, but I have really liked the Fords, since they upped their game to a 6.7L. It is an overall bigger truck, which appeals to me. Had a Dodge Gen 2, and loved the motor hated the trans. I realize a lot of that has changed, but I still don't know if I trust their trannies. My son-in-laws father just had to get a new Ram because his tranny let go one time too many.

So, for me, it's down to Chevy and Ford. But that's where the water got muddy. I decided that if I was going to look at trucks, I should do the due diligence and look at ALL of them, so I did that. What is reflected below is the best that I could do or figure out from the information that I could find on the various manufacturers websites.

These are the givens for the chart below:
  • All configs are 4WD Crew Cab (will not consider any cab smaller)
  • All SRW's are short box (this is my preferred setup)
  • All DRW's are long box (I don't think that this will fit in our garage, so that's the big issue with a DRW, and I just don't need an ass that wide)
  • Our 5er weighs 13800 unladen (ran across a scale)
    weighs 15000 loaded (ran across a scale)
    pin weight is unknown, but listed as 2560 (probably light)
  • Max trailer weight is 16500
  • Stuff in the truck = 300
  • Full of fuel = 245
  • People = 200/ea

Green squares indicate who had the "best" value in that column. Yellow lines are 2019 numbers for the Chevy and Ford for comparison.

Here is a pic of the spreadsheet:



So, here's what stands out:
  1. This data is all over the board, and there isn't "clearly" any ONE winner. They all win in some category or another.
  2. I don't know why the big 3 even sell 2500 trucks anymore. Yes, there are campers that would still be under those numbers, and it's probably a lot of campers that fit under those numbers, but the whole 2500 vs. 3500 SRW thing just muddies things up further
  3. The Ford numbers for 2020 make no sense. Both the 250 and 350 have the same 30000 GCVW, but the 250 has about 600 lbs less capacity. But the max trailer on the 250 is about 3000 lbs less than the 350. Something just doesn't add up in their numbers
  4. The 2020 Ford, while being an absolute powerhouse on paper, doesn't really live up to the hype when compared with the competition. The GM 3500 has a HIGHER GVWR, and the GCVW's are almost identical, and the total max towing isn't that much greater on the Ford
  5. But in 2019, the Ford and GM are just about switched around. Same GVWR, but Ford tows about 3000 lbs more.
  6. In DRW models, the 2020 Ford wins in most of my boxes, and that's because the payload is only slightly higher.

Most of the time it's just me and my wife, so we would be in the 2 people range. When we have my mom we would be in the 3 people range, and that's only a couple of times a year.

I realize that we'd close by the numbers when it comes to an SRW, but this will most likely be our daily driver (as in replacing our SUV), so I don't need to be lugging that monster around. The numbers indicate that I should be able to buy either a 19 or 20 Chevy or Ford and be OK.

If I buy a 19, I would have the luxury of being able to look at the sticker and make sure that it all makes sense. When it comes to a 20, if you order one, I'm a little bit leary that I get all of the correct options so that I max out an SRW.

I don't want this thread to turn into a:
  • DRW is better than SRW, or the only way to go.
  • SB vs. LB
  • Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge

I'm looking for any guidance and maybe opinions here. (If I don't like your opinion, I don't have to use it!) If we do decide to order one, what options should we get to maximize everything, for Ford and Chevy. Or, what have others found out towing a 15,000lb 5er with a SRW...

Thanks!!!
there is a great site to start to start with. fithwheelst.com. here all of your questions can be answered. Also you may enter any trucks vin and find all info on that truck. and yes it is all about the pin weight. generally 16 to 20 percent of trailer weight is the pin weight so if not known go with 20%. just to say higher gvws are only available in some of the configs. in ram you can get a gasser with a 14000lb gvw. but only in acrew cab long bed. and yea duallies are king
catch up with the zzzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2019, 06:27 AM   #71
goodellj
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Richmond, TX
Posts: 109
M.O.C. #20452
Lots and lots of info here. You are appropriately diligent about the big bucks that you are about to spend on a truck and trailer. I also did a ton of research before I bought and have a few comments:
1. I am not surprised that the Ford vs Chevy vs Ram discussion elicited many, many comments. I am also surprised that it didn't end with "You're stupid!" and the text book rejoinder "No, you're stupid!" As you can see, these truck brands have a lot of brand-loyal customers!
2. Published towing specs can be subject to fudging by the manufacturers. They pump them up because having the highest numbers might be the final decision point. Make sure there is plenty of excess capacity in whatever you pick.
3. The CCC in your post seems a little low to me. I would look for a trailer with better CCC because you will end up with more gear than you think.
4. I finally decided it was a toss-up, but someone whose advice I trusted told me that Ford was the best tow vehicle, and if I didn't believe it then I should count the trucks at a campground or horse show. Ford outnumbers the rest combined, although RAM has made some significant inroads lately and the new owners of Rams told me that the prices were unbeatable. The new Fords look pretty good, though. Make sure you consider the fuel capacity, because 30 gallons isn't enough!

My truck is the first truck I ever owned and I did similar research to yours, likewise on the trailer, and I am happy with both. I am still torn on a couple of issues like SRW vs DRW, club cab vs super cab, kitchen island, bigger couch, 40 vs 32" TV. But overall we weighed all the options and made the best choice.
__________________
John & Janet from Texas via Connecticut and Vermont
2012 Keystone Montana 3150RL 5th Wheel
2012 Ford F350 Diesel 4x4 Lariat Crewcab SRW
6.7L V-8 diesel, 6-sp automatic, 3.55 axle ratio
goodellj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2019, 07:55 AM   #72
Buckfisher
Seasoned Camper
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Burnet
Posts: 85
M.O.C. #24564
Carrying water in a rear fresh water tank reduces the pin weight. Pin weight seems to be the problem more so than towing weight.
Buckfisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2019, 08:31 AM   #73
jeepjrn
Seasoned Camper
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Port Clinton
Posts: 64
M.O.C. #24167
This all scares me!

Before joining MOC, I just simply trusted my RV dealer to tell me, yes your truck can pull it, guess I was just plain stupid and naive. I’ve had a 2011 Chevy HD2500 LT with the Duramax. So for the past 8 years I’ve towed a 40’ Jayco Premier 5th wheel and for the past year plus our new Montana 3121RL. We’ve towed through all sorts of weather and terrain from 20F degrees through 100F plus and from the flat lands of Ohio to the mountains of TN, KY, & NC of which I’ve never had an issue. A couple months ago looking to a new truck I started with all of the big 3, It was easy to rule out the Ram, I just don’t care for how it looks, I know that’s not a highly technical reason but it was mine. I truly loved the Ford and worked hard to buy it first but it came down to money, an equally equipped Chevy was easily $6-$7,000 cheaper. So being retired the decision was easy and I ended up with a 2019 leftover 3500HD LTZ. My only reason for even purchasing a new truck was I wanted additional safety features and luxury looking ahead to much more travel since retiring. Reading through all the experts it scares me, have I just been lucky???? I’ve never had my camper nor truck on a scale, I’ve never calculated my weight nor my wife’s, nor have I ever calculated the weight of my diesel fuel in the equation, Wow, I’ve come to the conclusion and realization that I’ve been totally ignorant, lucky to be alive, and obviously living under a lucky star. I’m feeling very blessed that I survived towing my campers so many thousands of miles without my truck falling apart and leaving me stranded. Guess I’d better get to the scales soon!
jeepjrn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2019, 08:32 AM   #74
CaptnJohn
Montana Master
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: South East NC
Posts: 1,768
M.O.C. #19865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckfisher View Post
Carrying water in a rear fresh water tank reduces the pin weight. Pin weight seems to be the problem more so than towing weight.
Not all fw tanks are in the rear. If behind the axels the reduction is less than on expects.
CaptnJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2019, 02:41 PM   #75
Theunz
Montana Master
 
Theunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Catoosa
Posts: 772
M.O.C. #18384
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepjrn View Post
Before joining MOC, I just simply trusted my RV dealer to tell me, yes your truck can pull it, guess I was just plain stupid and naive. I’ve had a 2011 Chevy HD2500 LT with the Duramax. So for the past 8 years I’ve towed a 40’ Jayco Premier 5th wheel and for the past year plus our new Montana 3121RL. We’ve towed through all sorts of weather and terrain from 20F degrees through 100F plus and from the flat lands of Ohio to the mountains of TN, KY, & NC of which I’ve never had an issue. A couple months ago looking to a new truck I started with all of the big 3, It was easy to rule out the Ram, I just don’t care for how it looks, I know that’s not a highly technical reason but it was mine. I truly loved the Ford and worked hard to buy it first but it came down to money, an equally equipped Chevy was easily $6-$7,000 cheaper. So being retired the decision was easy and I ended up with a 2019 leftover 3500HD LTZ. My only reason for even purchasing a new truck was I wanted additional safety features and luxury looking ahead to much more travel since retiring. Reading through all the experts it scares me, have I just been lucky???? I’ve never had my camper nor truck on a scale, I’ve never calculated my weight nor my wife’s, nor have I ever calculated the weight of my diesel fuel in the equation, Wow, I’ve come to the conclusion and realization that I’ve been totally ignorant, lucky to be alive, and obviously living under a lucky star. I’m feeling very blessed that I survived towing my campers so many thousands of miles without my truck falling apart and leaving me stranded. Guess I’d better get to the scales soon!
You are not ignorant or lucky, just obviously blind! Did you not see all the 3/4 tons or SRW 1tons weaving along the Hiway due to instability? Why even a slight breeze will blow them into oncoming traffic. You didn't notice all of them alongside the road with broken frames, even though they are the same? Didn't see any blowing through traffic lights due to poor brakes, even though they are the same and the 3/4 tons weighs less? Apparently the laws of physics do not apply when it comes to fifth wheels. DISCLAIMER you should not tow over the the manufactors suggested limits and you should not run with scissors.
__________________
2015 3100RL legacy...2005 Ford F-250 CC SB. Tows like a charm! 4/19 Updated to 2017 Chevy 3500 CC SB SRW -hope it tows as well as my F 250 did!
Theunz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2019, 03:01 PM   #76
CADman_KS
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hesston
Posts: 735
M.O.C. #25060
Quote:
Originally Posted by beeje View Post
On occasion we take a considerable amount of fire wood with us. Some times enough for a 4-6 hr fire per night for 2 weeks. LOL. Truck always has wood stored it.
Man, that's a LOT of wood!!

We typically only take wood with us in the summer, and so we are only having a fire from about 8:00 (still light out) until midnight, and typically, on the weekend, so just 2-3 days...
CADman_KS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2019, 04:06 PM   #77
CaptnJohn
Montana Master
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: South East NC
Posts: 1,768
M.O.C. #19865
Stopped taking wood or buying wood. We now use a propane firepit. No smoke to bother others, our clothes no longer stink, easy on/off.
__________________
John & Patty
2022 3855 BR
2019 Lariat F350 4X4 Dually
CaptnJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2019, 05:14 PM   #78
mlh
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,528
M.O.C. #2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theunz View Post
You are not ignorant or lucky, just obviously blind! Did you not see all the 3/4 tons or SRW 1tons weaving along the Hiway due to instability? Why even a slight breeze will blow them into oncoming traffic. You didn't notice all of them alongside the road with broken frames, even though they are the same? Didn't see any blowing through traffic lights due to poor brakes, even though they are the same and the 3/4 tons weighs less? Apparently the laws of physics do not apply when it comes to fifth wheels. DISCLAIMER you should not tow over the the manufactors suggested limits and you should not run with scissors.

Sorry I missed all of that but I did see a bunch of campers on the side of the road with blow tires. Couldn’t stop laughing. You have a great sense of humor.
Our mother wouldn’t let us carry excess milk to the neighbors. We might fall and get cut on the glass jug. I think that is like not running with scissors.
Thanks
Lynwood
__________________
www.harrellsprec.com
Lynwood Harrell
323 RL HC 2008 F250
mlh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2019, 06:42 PM   #79
Bob and Jeannette
Montana Fan
 
Bob and Jeannette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Orlando
Posts: 338
M.O.C. #22589
Quote:
Originally Posted by WOXOF View Post
On the flipside, I do have a friend that has a 2018 Ram 3500 SRW-SB and he tows his 16K lb. Vilano (uses a slider hitch) - states there's no problems with his setup. My conversation with him really has me thinking about which way to go. If I did decide to go the route of the SRW LB, my pea-brain tells me the pin weight couldn't exceed 3400 lbs. before exceeding the published specifications (if I bought the Ram 3500 LB).

Decisions, decisions and a big "gut check" before plunking down the buckaroos. If anyone wants to chime in - go for it.
There is no such thing as too large of a truck. I owned a SRW Ram 3500 and now I own a DRW Ram 3500, it’s probably cheaper to buy the duality first but who am I to judge.
Bob and Jeannette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2019, 08:25 PM   #80
powerhaulic
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: piseco
Posts: 258
M.O.C. #20884
Had an '18 2500 on air bags and upgraded 20" rubber did a great job pulling our 3811MS Legacy. 16400-16800 and 2900-3200 pin actual weight.


Decided to trade for a 2020 GMC 3500SRW, wanted the 10spd and the tow tech.


ordered it 6/27 took delivery 8/27, it rides better than the '18, tows better, far superior mirrors, and with the bigger factory size tires the load ratings are fine. (upgraded anyway to 4080# per tire)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20190901_160437.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	329.8 KB
ID:	5220   Click image for larger version

Name:	20191008_130924.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	417.3 KB
ID:	5222   Click image for larger version

Name:	20191002_165419 (2).jpg
Views:	27
Size:	315.2 KB
ID:	5223  
__________________
2020 AT4 3500 SRW Duramax SB
2018 Denali Duramax crew (traded)
2018.5 Montana 3811MS Legacy
Lippert AirRide pinbox / PullRite SuperLight hitch
powerhaulic is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.