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Old 02-15-2013, 12:24 PM   #21
richfaa
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Went to change out the bulb in the fixtures over the counter with LED bulbs in our 2013 3402 Big sky. The right fixture was easy.Bulb out and LED in.The bulb in the left fixture would not come out. Pulled harder and the fixture came apart. Socket disintegrated wires pulled down. Took it off the celling for repair and the wires running up the shaft of the fixture were bare in spots and looked like they had come out of a trash can.The fixture was unrepairable..We will have a chat with Keystone.Owning a RV is so much fun...

Could not find a part # for the fixtures So called keystone Customer service. Robyne Hakes was my contact. After about 15 mins of her asking questions as to what the fixture looked like and what unit was it in she came up with two fixtures and two part numbers.She E mailed me pictures and part numbers and one of them was the exact fixture. These folks are good.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:58 PM   #22
RonD
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Does anyone ever notice none of the woodwork is ever glued, odd, I keep repairing, and rebuilding stuff and most is from road use and no glue, just brads and staples, we have over 30,000 road miles and it's starting to show, but were hanging in there, I now have a larger tool box, and more spare parts.
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:18 AM   #23
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by RonD

Does anyone ever notice none of the woodwork is ever glued, odd, I keep repairing, and rebuilding stuff and most is from road use and no glue, just brads and staples, we have over 30,000 road miles and it's starting to show, but were hanging in there, I now have a larger tool box, and more spare parts.
It will really start to show after 6 1/2 years on the road.
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Old 02-25-2013, 01:41 PM   #24
RickW
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I have almost 50k miles on ours now. Have not experienced that problem. We did install I/S last year and all but the first 7k~8k miles have been with a air ride hitch.

Now my parents SOB has only about half the miles on theirs that we have. I have helped fixed the problems you described with it. It is not going to take much longer before my father has rebuilt all the cabinets.
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:04 PM   #25
GaryM
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Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. richfaa we have learned the first time around not to return to the Keystone product. Shame on you.
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:20 AM   #26
richfaa
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I hear you Gary. If we could have found a brand in the price range that we knew was of better quality and would not have the usual problems we would purchased it.keystone service center and their service network is IMO the best in the business.
The new upgrades introduced in October of this year IMO put the Montana on a par or better than some of the other brands. We purchased the second Montana because in our opinion there was no better in the price range. We were members of this forum and a couple of other forums for year before we purchased any brand. We had no brand in mind. The Montana was the best bang for the buck and we were not taken by surprise by the problems encountered. We would have had them with any brand.
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:22 AM   #27
simonsrf
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quote:Originally posted by richfaa

I hear you Gary. If we could have found a brand in the price range that we knew was of better quality and would not have the usual problems we would purchased it.keystone service center and their service network is IMO the best in the business.
The new upgrades introduced in October of this year IMO put the Montana on a par or better than some of the other brands. We purchased the second Montana because in our opinion there was no better in the price range. We were members of this forum and a couple of other forums for year before we purchased any brand. We had no brand in mind. The Montana was the best bang for the buck and we were not taken by surprise by the problems encountered. We would have had them with any brand.
This MOC forum documents the problems with Montana trailers. I've been a member for 7+ years, and have read pretty much every post of interest about Keystone's continued failures.

Most Montana problems posted today on this forum are the very same problems posted 7 years ago, when I thought before I bought my Montana that Montana was the best "bang for the buck" as you and others continually state, and I believed, once.

This forum documentation proves that Keystone has no interest in correcting the past or current problems; but people like you, continue to use the "bang for the buck" excuse to qualify inferior engineering, shoddy or no inventory control, no electrical schematics, etc. etc. and poor customer/dealer relations, in most cases the costs are "bucked" by the consumer with little or no arbitration between customer/dealer/Keystone. Sure, if you want to drive to Goshen, repairs can be made....I didn't buy my trailer in Goshen.

The fact that when a problem is found, Keystone does nothing to correct the problem on future models or alert their existing customers who purchased the inferior failed product about possible safety problems. Have you ever received a recall? Just imagine how many people are still driving around with non-torqued u-bolts.....oh yea, that's a vendor problem, not Keystone? BS

Price range?.....how does something that is broken, needs constant repair, or can't be fixed without replacing the offending problem in most cases at the owner's expense become good business sense or a good price range? Doesn't work for me.

When i bought my Montana, I expected the company and dealers to treat me like one of the "good ol' boys" who PAID for a safe, sound, working trailer, my money was just as green as anyone else's.....they all failed to recognize me as a paid customer, and I moved on with my money.

I refused to be fooled twice by my own stupidity, that would be a shame on me.
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:53 AM   #28
richfaa
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Your post is in most areas accurate.I have also been a member since 2005. However what brand would you purchase that you know would not have the very same problems. Be honest Have you had any of the very same issues with your SOB.The workmanship issues exist on every assembly line on every brand.

Read any forum of 7 years ago and you will see the same problems reported.BTW our U bolts were torqued within manufactures spec's but at the low end and these new u bolts are a upgrade from the previous ones.
We have never had a problem with Keystone or any dealer not to say we got our way everytime but we were trated fairly.

Workmanship problems exist across the board with every manufacturer.keystone is IMO no better no worse than any other.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:26 AM   #29
simonsrf
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quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Your post is in most areas accurate.I have also been a member since 2005. However what brand would you purchase that you know would not have the very same problems. Be honest Have you had any of the very same issues with your SOB.The workmanship issues exist on every assembly line on every brand.

Read any forum of 7 years ago and you will see the same problems reported.BTW our U bolts were torqued within manufactures spec's but at the low end and these new u bolts are a upgrade from the previous ones.
We have never had a problem with Keystone or any dealer not to say we got our way everytime but we were trated fairly.

Workmanship problems exist across the board with every manufacturer.keystone is IMO no better no worse than any other.

Yes, all brands have problems, there is no argument from me there, Rich. The issue is how they correct THEIR problems. I thought my money was as good as anyone elses money...I paid for a fully functioning rig regardless of "bang for the buck".

I'm not going to promote another brand on this forum, but when I had a problem with this SOB, the company sent a mechanic within two days to fix our problem. That mechanic drove 11 hours to get to us, corrected most of the problems, and scheduled us at another facility to finish the repairs. He also followed up and made sure our problems were fixed at that facility to our satisfaction. He also gave us his personal cell phone just in case we should have ANY problems.

Not once did Keystone ever make any effort to be concerned about me as a continued customer, they only worried about how much money it was going to cost them to remedy their poor quality standards, which by the way, almost always came out of my pocket.

BTW, I remember Charles Wade at one of the MOC rallies, he lied to just about everyone there, denied the company had any responsibility for poor quality of components that their company bought to be installed on our rigs....said he would look into the issues brought up by MOC members, ....he never followed up on anything even though he promised he would look into them next week and get right back to us.......typical....end of story.

Rich, I'm happy you are satisfied with the quality and workmanship of your rig, I just happen to have a different standard of where I'll spend my hard earned buck.

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Old 02-26-2013, 07:06 AM   #30
richfaa
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I did not say I was satisfied with the quality and workmanship of this rig or the last one.I asked what brand would not have the same problems. When we had a problem in Quartzsite one phone call to Keystone had a dealer call us in 1/2 hour to ask if we needed a tow into the dealership and Keystone wrote a blank check for the repairs. A dealer in Michigan stayed open till we could get there and provided us power and water overnight , did the repair and worked with our Extended warranty company.
The service center in Goshen has repaired every issue we reported large and small. Just this week I called the service center to get a part number for a light fixture and within 15 mins we had the part number and a pictorial of the fixture.

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Old 02-26-2013, 08:47 AM   #31
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WOW! sounds like Simonsrf had the dealer and Montana from HELL! thats too bad I have had a great experience with Keystone and my dealer I bought it from just like alot of folks here, and it is true Other brands have the same problem my friend JUST bought a new Coachman Chaperral and been to the dealer many times for stupid workmanship problems and is very frustrated with the dealer and Coachman with fixing them ,It happens to ALL brands
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:53 PM   #32
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I had a friend who was a camper dealer. He always said 'there isn't much difference in any of these campers after you take the skin off. Our Mountanas are about as good or as bad as any of them.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:02 PM   #33
grayghost03
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by bigskyjimmy

WOW! sounds like Simonsrf had the dealer and Montana from HELL! thats too bad I have had a great experience with Keystone and my dealer I bought it from just like alot of folks here, and it is true Other brands have the same problem my friend JUST bought a new Coachman Chaperral and been to the dealer many times for stupid workmanship problems and is very frustrated with the dealer and Coachman with fixing them ,It happens to ALL brands
I agree with Jimmy, we have had very little problems, actually two. A piece of molding fell off (1") a drop of gorilla glue, fixed, remote to our fireplace failed, Keystone replace entire fireplace, and the dealer came to my house and installed it. Yep, there is some things that could have been designed different(but I bought it the way it was designed) no buyers remorse here. I just changed what I didn't like. Such as shelving spacing, and LED lighting. And of course replace the loisy matteress with a sleep number. We have already started looking at other models at different shows. Haven't seen anything better for us yet, except maybe another Keystone. I can't say I am 100% satified, but I can't say that about the S/B that I designed and was the gereral contractor on. Or the Dodge or Chevy. My standards are pretty high also.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:29 PM   #34
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This kind of information is why I joined the forum. You see I have a Double Tree Mobile Suites trailer. We are looking for a replacement and don't really plan on making the DRV mistake again. We've had it since new in 05, ordered it set up the way we wanted. Then from the moment we signed for it began an odyssey of repairs malfunctions missed fixes and plain old stupidity. Like broken screws disguised by placing the head of the screw into a blob of sealant rather than replacing it. Other issues ranged from minor annoyances to major slide problems and landing gear failure. The chronic window leaks that took my removing them and putting in the caulk the factory left out was a real gem.

Paying high dollar was a bust and we saw the Montana line has somme nice features. It's certainly less expensive than the $125k+ drv thinks their rolling disasters are worth.

Any suggestions for a larger Montana for full time use?
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:50 PM   #35
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Ol Tanker, welcome to the forum. Can't help ya with the Montana recomendation, but if you post this in the Long Timer or Full Timer sections, it will get replies that will help many of us. Enjoy. Looking at your signature, thanks for your service.
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:13 PM   #36
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Welcome Ol Tanker and thanks for sharing your DRV experience. It just goes to show that anyone can have bad experiences with any one of the many rv's out there. It really hurts, I am sure, when you end up paying those kind of dollars to boot. We are on our third Montana and certainly have been satisfied with the overall performance of all three and agree with Rich and others that Montana ranks up there when it comes to the best bang for your buck!!!
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:22 AM   #37
richfaa
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Ol Tanker

This kind of information is why I joined the forum. You see I have a Double Tree Mobile Suites trailer. We are looking for a replacement and don't really plan on making the DRV mistake again. We've had it since new in 05, ordered it set up the way we wanted. Then from the moment we signed for it began an odyssey of repairs malfunctions missed fixes and plain old stupidity. Like broken screws disguised by placing the head of the screw into a blob of sealant rather than replacing it. Other issues ranged from minor annoyances to major slide problems and landing gear failure. The chronic window leaks that took my removing them and putting in the caulk the factory left out was a real gem.

Paying high dollar was a bust and we saw the Montana line has somme nice features. It's certainly less expensive than the $125k+ drv thinks their rolling disasters are worth.

Any suggestions for a larger Montana for full time use?
Note that The Montana line is now full time rated.There was a big ungrade in Oct of 2013 ibcluding going to a 12 inch frame. I do not know what they did to full time rate it but I would take a good hard look.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:32 AM   #38
richfaa
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One other thing as I have said many times before. I have reported EVERY problem with both of our Montana's large and small in the hope that it would help others.Many folks are hesitant to report any problem after they paid big $$ for the unit. We belonged to 3 brand forums plus RV net for a year before we purchased the Montana and toured ALL of the brand plants in Goshen, Elkhart before we selected a brand. We understood the industry and there were no surprises when we had problems.

We have had our go arounds with Keystone/Montana over the 7 years we have had their product as I do not hesitate to call and voice my "opinions" in a professional manner. Again we did not always " get our way" but have always been treated fairly.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:14 AM   #39
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quote:Originally posted by Ol Tanker

This kind of information is why I joined the forum. You see I have a Double Tree Mobile Suites trailer. We are looking for a replacement and don't really plan on making the DRV mistake again. We've had it since new in 05, ordered it set up the way we wanted. Then from the moment we signed for it began an odyssey of repairs malfunctions missed fixes and plain old stupidity. Like broken screws disguised by placing the head of the screw into a blob of sealant rather than replacing it. Other issues ranged from minor annoyances to major slide problems and landing gear failure. The chronic window leaks that took my removing them and putting in the caulk the factory left out was a real gem.

Paying high dollar was a bust and we saw the Montana line has somme nice features. It's certainly less expensive than the $125k+ drv thinks their rolling disasters are worth.

Any suggestions for a larger Montana for full time use?
Ol Tanker,

Welcome to what we consider one of the most up front forum. We have had our 3580RL for a year now and love it. Yes we have a few minor issues but mainly stuff that was taken care of during PDI, etc. Prior to our first Montana we had SOB who is no longer producing rigs but are still selling them and although they were considered one of the better built 5'ers we had more issues with them than we have our new rig.

We have been starting to get to the various 2013 shows in the NE area and can say without prejudice, Montana is still by far the best value for the money. We make it a point to go in every rig at a show in our alloted time to see exactly who is doing what and how they are doing it. We are eyeing up a new 3582RL which suits us perfect and with the new features such as the frameless windows and auto-leveling along with the new cherry interior it is hard to resist.

Bottomline, if anyone, anywhere thinks that you will walk away with a perfect anything (RV, car, truck, house, etc.) that has been built by human hands you are sadly mistaken. We can only strive for perfection and unless you are our Creator, good luck.

Regardless of what you get, there will always be something that will pop up and depending on who you deal with to resolve that issue is also a matter of being at the right place at the right time.

Unless you plan on spending into the mid 100's for straight up custom you are basically dealing with comodity type items with a touch of custom thrown in (cabinetry, etc.)

Good luck in your quest regardless of what it is!

Les
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:14 AM   #40
Hooker
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Ol Tanker

This kind of information is why I joined the forum. You see I have a Double Tree Mobile Suites trailer. We are looking for a replacement and don't really plan on making the DRV mistake again. We've had it since new in 05, ordered it set up the way we wanted. Then from the moment we signed for it began an odyssey of repairs malfunctions missed fixes and plain old stupidity. Like broken screws disguised by placing the head of the screw into a blob of sealant rather than replacing it. Other issues ranged from minor annoyances to major slide problems and landing gear failure. The chronic window leaks that took my removing them and putting in the caulk the factory left out was a real gem.

Paying high dollar was a bust and we saw the Montana line has somme nice features. It's certainly less expensive than the $125k+ drv thinks their rolling disasters are worth.

Any suggestions for a larger Montana for full time use?
DRV makes a nice, high quality rig. Sounds like you got a lemon. Montana has their share too, hopefully you've had your quota of lemons.
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