Electrical - Montana Owners Club

Doug and Anita · 08-19-2006, 08:58 AM

I have two problems with my 2006 model 3295. I have 2 AC's and the main AC has been working OK until last week and it started tripping a breaker when we turn it on. Nothing else is on and it throws a breaker in 1-2 minutes. We have had 20 straight days over 100 degrees and I NEED the AC. What gives?

Also, the light and fan in bathroom and the light just outside the bathroom will not come on. There is a light on in the fuse box but the fuses are all good but lights and fan are all out. Help! Any ideas.

Ozz · 08-19-2006, 09:14 AM

The Red light in the fuse box tells you there is a open in that circuit, probably the fuse, you said the fuse was good, but did you swap it out with a known good one?
What is happening when the breaker trips? Is the blower motor running on the A/C unit?
Do you hear the compressor try to start?
Good luck.
Ozz

'07 3400RL 2nd RTU
2 Golf Cart batteries 3,000 watt inverter, automatic transfer switch
Honda 2000 Generator, Maytag's with 220 Dryer
Stationary domed Sat. dish, LCD 12 Volt Amp gauge, LCD Tank Monitor
3 added 120 volt outlets, On Board Air; 12 Volt Viair 450C compressor
2006 Ford PSD 4x4 Off Road Lariat, Hadley Air Horns, Truck inverter with 110 volts: laptop, Color Backup Camera, Awning lock

richfaa · 08-19-2006, 11:28 AM

Our A/C breaker in our brand new 3400 will on occasion trip for no reason what-so-ever.Minimal other things in use and it may or may not trip when the compressor kicks on. I have not a clue??

Rich& Helen N.Ridgeville,Ohio.

F-350SD, Lariat, V-10,4:30 Diff, tow command Long bed, Crew Cab Dually, 06 3400RL
Mor-Ryde Pin Box

Ozz · 08-19-2006, 12:10 PM

Rich,
Those breakers could not be more cheap, I think I have read where you tightened the wires on the breakers, if not try that, both Neutral and line on the breaker, get a good smaller tipped screwdriver, unplug the old gal and tighten all of them.
An air conditioner, (or any motor) will briefly pull 7 times the running amps for a millisecond, but all wiring, breakers are sized for that, the start capacitor will ease this, they can go bad, usually when you look at a failed one, they are burned, bulged out, or have oil on them, but if failed, you will probably blow the breaker every time.
If this condition continues, or gets worse, you might get a clamp around amp gage and take readings when starting and then running. I think a 15,000 BTU runs around 17-18 running amps, you may not even get a reading when starting, just a jump in the meter. The better amp gauges have a hold feature on the meter, it will lock in on the peak amp reading.
I have had to add a start capacitor to compressors, as the compressor is just tight. My neighbor Frank, across the street had his start capacitor blow up about 4 years ago, I put a Supco hard start kit on it, just 2 weeks ago it failed to start, I added a much larger one and it runs great, I told him to save for a new unit, it's only a matter of time before it will fail now.
Ozz

'07 3400RL 2nd RTU
2 Golf Cart batteries 3,000 watt inverter, automatic transfer switch
Honda 2000 Generator, Maytag's with 220 Dryer
Stationary domed Sat. dish, LCD 12 Volt Amp gauge, LCD Tank Monitor
3 added 120 volt outlets, On Board Air; 12 Volt Viair 450C compressor
2006 Ford PSD 4x4 Off Road Lariat, Hadley Air Horns, Truck inverter with 110 volts: laptop, Color Backup Camera, Awning lock

tmarshall · 08-21-2006, 04:15 AM

My circuit breaker kept breaking on the main AC (15,000 BTU)I recently put a new circuit breaker in ($18) and it has not tripped again. Like Ozz said, the circuit breakers are cheap. I used to think that the circuit breaker either works or it doesn't, but this is not the case. You may have a circuit breaker with a bit too much resistance. I would try a new one. It takes 5 minutes to install.

Tim Marshall
2004 3670RL Montana
2002 F-350 powerstroke diesel

Ozz · 08-21-2006, 04:27 AM

You can get them at Home Depot.

'07 3400RL 2nd RTU
2 Golf Cart batteries 3,000 watt inverter, automatic transfer switch
Honda 2000 Generator, Maytag's with 220 Dryer
Stationary domed Sat. dish, LCD 12 Volt Amp gauge, LCD Tank Monitor
3 added 120 volt outlets, On Board Air; 12 Volt Viair 450C compressor
2006 Ford PSD 4x4 Off Road Lariat, Hadley Air Horns, Truck inverter with 110 volts: laptop, Color Backup Camera, Awning lock

315RLS · 08-21-2006, 06:48 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Doug Lloyd

the main AC has been working OK until last week and it started tripping a breaker when we turn it on. Nothing else is on and it throws a breaker in 1-2 minutes. We have had 20 straight days over 100 degrees and I NEED the AC. What gives?

Doug,
We encountered the same symptoms and found the fan motor to be stuck. You could pull the shroud and see if the fan spins freely.

kdeiss · 08-21-2006, 07:29 AM

Check your Camp Ground Voltage with every one running AC voltage can be low.Our old C G I would get Voltage readings like 92 V. Remember voltage goes down AMPS go up Breakers trip if they are working.

Ken And Ginny Deiss
02 Montana 2955 RL
02 GMC 2500 HD Ext LB
8.1 Gas Allison 373

Garmin 2610
Reese 16K
Prodigy
Daisy A Weimaraner Great Travel Pal
Pittsburgh Pa
http:tinypic.com/windy

richfaa · 08-21-2006, 09:13 AM

My electrician friend was in the neighborhood on a job and dropped by to mooch something to drink.He looked at the Montana breaker panel and was unable to find words to describe the cheapness of the breakers..He will bring me some ..acceptable..ones. He thinks the 15,5 A/C will pull @17amps start up and about 11 running amps.

Rich& Helen N.Ridgeville,Ohio.

F-350SD, Lariat, V-10,4:30 Diff, tow command Long bed, Crew Cab Dually, 06 3400RL
Mor-Ryde Pin Box

firetrucker · 08-21-2006, 12:06 PM

I have heard that circuit breakers have a limited life based on the number of times they trip. As part of the overall system check, replace the breaker...as Ozz said, they're cheap.

Just as a precaution, I pulled the panel, tightened all the connections, added a few spare breakers in the panel, and put a couple in the "electrical stuff" drawer in the kitchen.

Bob

'99 Volvo / '05 3400RL
2 Shih Tzu guard dogs
1 lonely Siberian Husky

Ozz · 08-21-2006, 01:23 PM

[quote]Originally posted by richfaa

My electrician friend was in the neighborhood on a job and dropped by to mooch something to drink.He looked at the Montana breaker panel and was unable to find words to describe the cheapness of the breakers..He will bring me some ..acceptable..ones. He thinks the 15,5 A/C will pull @17amps start up and about 11 running amps.

Rich& Helen N.Ridgeville,Ohio.

Rich, it will pull 7 times running amps at start, (for a millisecond) and around 18 Amps running. (according to the paperwork) I haven't amped it out yet.
When I do, I'll post it. (or anyone on the Forum can, with an amp meter.)
Ozz

'07 3400RL 2nd RTU
2 Golf Cart batteries 3,000 watt inverter, automatic transfer switch
Honda 2000 Generator, Maytag's with 220 Dryer
Stationary domed Sat. dish, LCD 12 Volt Amp gauge, LCD Tank Monitor
3 added 120 volt outlets, On Board Air; 12 Volt Viair 450C compressor
2006 Ford PSD 4x4 Off Road Lariat, Hadley Air Horns, Truck inverter with 110 volts: laptop, Color Backup Camera, Awning lock

Mudchief · 08-21-2006, 02:19 PM

Ozz, the wiring in my unit does not look like 12 gage to me. Looks more like 16. Being you have been doing a lot of wiring does it look like that in your unit? It is not like the 12 gage you use in your house.I am not talking about the insulation on the wire but the conductor.
That would pull a few more amps and cause breakers to flip.

Dennis & Linda
05 GMC 2500HD Duramax CC
Pullrite Superglide
05 Mountaineer 329RLS
[IMGhttp://i3.tinypic.com/znkncy.jpg[/IMG]

Ozz · 08-21-2006, 04:35 PM

Dennis,
My guess is that your wire on some circuits; (Washer, dryer, A/C, fireplace, and microwave is 12 Gauge, the rest for the 15 amp breakers is 14 gauge, which is OK, minimum, but OK.
They would not dare scrim on that sizing.
Ozz

'07 3400RL 2nd RTU
2 Golf Cart batteries 3,000 watt inverter, automatic transfer switch
Honda 2000 Generator, Maytag's with 220 Dryer
Stationary domed Sat. dish, LCD 12 Volt Amp gauge, LCD Tank Monitor
3 added 120 volt outlets, On Board Air; 12 Volt Viair 450C compressor
2006 Ford PSD 4x4 Off Road Lariat, Hadley Air Horns, Truck inverter with 110 volts: laptop, Color Backup Camera, Awning lock

MAMalody · 08-21-2006, 08:41 PM

>>> it will pull 7 times running amps at start, (for a millisecond) and around 18 Amps running.

Ozz · 08-22-2006, 02:18 AM

Mike, No, it's too fast to trip them, the start capacitor kicks the motor, so it takes that surge.
Have you ever been sitting in your living room when your A/C starts up, and you have a dimmed light on? You will notice a little additional dimming of the light for just a fraction of a second, that's the surge in amps.
Ozz
Google motor starting, they may explain it much better than I.

'07 3400RL 2nd RTU
2 Golf Cart batteries 3,000 watt inverter, automatic transfer switch
Honda 2000 Generator, Maytag's with 220 Dryer
Stationary domed Sat. dish, LCD 12 Volt Amp gauge, LCD Tank Monitor
3 added 120 volt outlets, On Board Air; 12 Volt Viair 450C compressor
2006 Ford PSD 4x4 Off Road Lariat, Hadley Air Horns, Truck inverter with 110 volts: laptop, Color Backup Camera, Awning lock

Garin1 · 09-02-2006, 04:49 PM

OZZ, The breaker is designed to handle 125% load at start up. A 15 amp will handle 18.75 amps, 18 amp will handle 22.5 amps. Both the start amps and the running amps will be posted on the spec tag for the a/c

. As for the wiring,, if it really is 16ga,, turn all power off now and take it back to the dealer yesterday.

Ozz · 09-03-2006, 03:13 AM

Garin1,
The LRA at start up happens with all motors for s very short time, refrigeration-A/C compressors and motors under load have the LRA start for just a millisecond, you are correct about the breaker. I really think the unit is properly wired, it's confusing in the breaker area because of the badly wired mess in there. There are 14 ga. wires and 12 gage wires close to each other and as they are Black, it's hard to tell.
here's a blurb about the amps, plus a link to a good article on RV A/C units, I learned from it some thing I didn't know about these small units.
LRA Info:
When restarted too soon the compressor draws the Locked Rotor Amps ~60 to 75 amps for a 15k BTU air conditioner until the overload opens, a circuit breaker trips or a fuse blows rather then the 12-14 amps it normally draws. In the few seconds before the overload heats up the motor wiring starts to fry, trailer/RV wiring and plugs will be severely stressed and your lights will dim.
http://www.villagekitchen.com/vk/comments/rv_ac.html
Ozz

'07 3400RL 2nd RTU
2 Golf Cart batteries 3,000 watt inverter, automatic transfer switch
Honda 2000 Generator, Maytag's with 220 Dryer
Stationary domed Sat. dish, LCD 12 Volt Amp gauge, LCD Tank Monitor
3 added 120 volt outlets, On Board Air; 12 Volt Viair 450C compressor
2006 Ford PSD 4x4 Off Road Lariat, Hadley Air Horns, Truck inverter with 110 volts: laptop, Color Backup camera, Firestone air bags,Husky air ride roller hitch, Awning lock

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