Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > GENERAL DISCUSSIONS > General Discussions about our Montanas
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-10-2006, 05:03 PM   #121
dsprik
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellaire
Posts: 5,932
M.O.C. #4282
Our 2007 3400 has dual panes and they all open (haven't tried the 2 emergency windows yet). Temps so far from 20 to 115. Last 5 weeks we camped in my sister-in-law's parking lot 150 feet from one of the busiest interstates in western NC.

Would not ever order another 5th wheel without dual panes. We love them. I know this is just my opinion, but I'm convinced.
dsprik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2006, 01:47 AM   #122
Wrenchtraveller
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 1,568
M.O.C. #4890
This thread won't die so I will add yet another comment. The double pane windows on my 06 2955RL are great. I would never consider owning a rig without them and the only option I wish I had was the gel coat exterior.
They are tinted dark enough for my liking, they all open very well and a darker tint will let less light into your unit.

My unit is very quiet inside and the acoustics are more like a stick house. I could be wrong but I give the dual pane glass a lot of the credit for this.

Keystone offers DP for a reason. If a dealer can make a sale by down playing the benefits of DP, then he will do so. Taking a dealer's advice on some options is not always the wisest thing a consumer can do. This goes for all types of products. The dealer wants to sell. Period.
Wrenchtraveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2006, 06:31 AM   #123
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 19,841
M.O.C. #2839
There is more to a Dual Pane window that its having two layers of glass. I have never seen the specs on the dual pane windows in the Montana.

Note:

When there is a difference between inside and outside temperatures, heat transfers through a window. It's lost to the outside during the heating season and is gained from the outside during the cooling season.

A window's thermal performance - which can be measured at the center of glass, the edge of glass and the frame - is rated with a U-value, its overall ability to resist heat flow.

Have you ever tried to drink hot coffee from a drinking glass? If so, you know that glass is a very good heat conductor. The outside of the container can quickly become too hot to hold. Using two layers of glass with an air space between - the idea behind the Thermos bottle, incidentally - dramatically cuts the heat flow.

Single-pane windows can act like that drinking glass, conducting heat to the outside. Dual-pane windows, with a 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch air space between sheets of glass, work like a Thermos bottle to cut down the flow of heat. If you replace the air between the panes with an inert gas like carbon dioxide, argon or krypton, the window will transfer even less heat and be even more efficient.


Is there 1/2 inch to 3/4 inches between the panes.. What is the "U factor" Are they gas filled????

The term "dual pane safety glass windows" means little..


Also http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuild...ges/h00029.asp
richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2006, 08:08 AM   #124
DonandBonnie
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Madison
Posts: 1,239
M.O.C. #5906
Thanks for some great information. Your opinions always give me the information I need to make an informed decision.

I wonder why my salesman was so quick to discourage me from dual panes. He knows that I am not going to buy a Montana off of the lot and I will get exactly the options that I want and that I'm not going to impulse buy, yet as soon as I mentioned dual panes he attempted to shoot them down by bringing out cold study brochure. He was also quick to add that dual pane windows don't open, a fact that you guys have proven false. I guess he doesn't need a commission off of the $1385 price tag.

By the way, if anybody is interested, I have a copy of the brochure that has the cold study. If somebody can teach me how to add a scanned file to the forum, I will be happy post it here.

Again thanks for your help and since we will be spending the Holidays in northern Ohio, we will be getting the dual panes.
DonandBonnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2007, 10:08 AM   #125
Bob & Lee
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 578
M.O.C. #718
I was told this company made the windows for montana and I emaild them and here is there answer.

"I received your request for information on the R factor of our 8600 series windows. We haven't had the window lab tested. However, comparable windows with a slightly bigger air space between the glass panes have R factors of 1.09 (U value 0.92). Therefore these windows would have an R factor slightly lower than 1.090".

Thanks you for your inquiry
Daniel McEnery
Kinro Engineering
(817)473-4421 ext 134
dmcenery@kinro.net
Bob & Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2007, 02:49 PM   #126
dsprik
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellaire
Posts: 5,932
M.O.C. #4282
Why in the world would a company who mass manufactures windows like that NOT lab test their windows??? What's odd about that answer is that they seem to be up to date on everyone elses dual panes R/U values...
dsprik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2007, 02:55 PM   #127
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 19,841
M.O.C. #2839
That would be because the numbers would not be very impressive Note the statement... However, comparable windows with a slightly bigger air space between the glass panes have R factors of 1.09 (U value 0.92). Therefore these windows would have an R factor slightly lower than 1.090".
richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2007, 03:45 PM   #128
dsprik
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellaire
Posts: 5,932
M.O.C. #4282
But I would rather give real numbers, even if they didn't look all that good. Saying they don't know makes them look like a sub par mfr (or a bunch of idiots) who is trying to hide something - and not doing a good job at it.

Still like my dual panes, though Rich.

Maybe I'm be a little too hard on them... Just don't like the fact they can't produce actual numbers.
dsprik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2007, 05:18 PM   #129
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 19,841
M.O.C. #2839
I think dual pane windows will be more efective than single pane under any circumstances..If you need them. That they provide data for their other windows makes me wonder if maybe Keystone did not want the numbers. Don't have them, can't publish them and the consumer can't evaluate.Would not be surprised to find the same windows on other brand campers as well. Can you tell that my opinion of dual pane windows on a RV is not very high.But...that you are satisfied with them is all that matters.
richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2007, 12:49 PM   #130
sreigle
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
Dual pane windows. We didn't get them but I'm kicking myself for that decision. If doing it over again, I'd order them for three reasons:

1. extreme cold

2. extreme heat

3. noise reduction
sreigle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2007, 01:08 PM   #131
dsprik
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellaire
Posts: 5,932
M.O.C. #4282
Steve, I imagine those windows are way too expensive to try replacing one or two at a time. Over the course of a year, the 12 windows could be replaced. But it would have to be worth it. Not sure.
dsprik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2007, 03:47 PM   #132
rlrich
Seasoned Camper
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Carroll
Posts: 70
M.O.C. #5319
Our Montana is the first trailer of the four that we have owned that has dual panes. I don't know about all the numbers or manufacturer's claims or R values but I do know that this is the first trailer we've had that when I get up on a cold morning I don't have to wipe off all the condensation on the windows to see outside. There is also a noticeable difference in outside noise filtering inside. Much quieter. I'll never be without them.
rlrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2007, 06:02 AM   #133
sreigle
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
Noise filtering would be great.

Dave, I haven't checked prices but would guess it would be cost-prohibitive. For me, at least.
sreigle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2007, 02:30 PM   #134
WACOT
Seasoned Camper
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Waco
Posts: 74
M.O.C. #1946
I keep reading about dual pane windows and one negative that folks mention is the added weight, are these windows armor plated, how can one additional thickness of glass be all that heavy. These is only an average of three windows in a Monty that is of much size, so how is weight a big problem. If they cost an additional $1200.00 or more then I think the money would be better spent on more A/C output and larger capisity furnace. Another thought I have on them is this, is any trailer insulated well enough to where dual pane windows will make or break the comfort level. I also have read many many articles in this forum on the pros and cons on GEL COAT. I talked with a dealer who was at our work site camp ground and he said he doesn't even order anything to his dealership without GEL COAT. I understand that he is a dealer and all that, but I think the man was being up front with me as I was not on his lot or in the market for a new trailer in the price range of his brand ( only wish I could be) , a 38 ft. Travel Supreme, way out of my price range. I guess this all comes down to this, if you like it buy it. Best of luck to you all in 2007.
WACOT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2007, 05:46 PM   #135
dsprik
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellaire
Posts: 5,932
M.O.C. #4282
Tom, I have 12 windows in my 3400. If I had all 12 panes setting outside on a pallet, I know I wouldn't be able to lift them. Now, if you DOUBLE that weight...

My back picture window by itself would be a handful - even if it were a single pane. I'm no expert on window glass density/weight, but my general experience tells me that I really don't want to be lifting too much of it. I could be wrong, but I believe there is a substantial difference in the extra weight contributed by dual pane windows.

With that said, however, I would never be without them for the same reasons prevously stated by others here. I love mine.
dsprik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2007, 05:53 PM   #136
Montana Sky
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Down the Road
Posts: 5,627
M.O.C. #889
Dave,
Did you ever weigh your coach before you started loading it up?? Just curious what yours weighed in at compared to mine w/o dual pane windows.
Montana Sky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2007, 06:04 PM   #137
dsprik
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bellaire
Posts: 5,932
M.O.C. #4282
Yes I did Dave. Need to find those figures... They are on my computer somewhere...

*On Edit~ No, Dave I didn't weigh it right out of the dealership. Unfortunately, we were way behind schedule and we were trying to make our first camping setup before dark. This forced us to forego the dry weight I really wanted to get. Did weighit after we had been been living in it for a few months. Wanted to make sure I was within specs before heading to the Goshen Rally, NC and FL.
dsprik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2007, 07:03 PM   #138
Montana Sky
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Down the Road
Posts: 5,627
M.O.C. #889
Dave,
If you could, send those numbers to me. I am curious..... Thanx!
Montana Sky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 02:57 AM   #139
Tom Gina 06
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Denton
Posts: 376
M.O.C. #5993
We have stayed in two different situations this year the first was our Forest River Wildcat 28 RK. I did use the plastic over the inside of the windows, stayed in northern MN over the holidays last winter. Then spent the winter in it in N. TX for work. With the plastic over the windows it worked good except where the noise issue was. It still was pretty noisy when someone was outside and talking. You could almost listen to the conversation word for word.

When we ordered our 3400 I wanted a couple of things because of specific reasons. Gel coat for maintaince and longer term looking good. The other was duel pane windows. The duel pane windows have provided us with a couple of things that we really enjoy. The added wieght is something I did consider but as a fulltimer wanted to have my Monty for the longer term so adjusted my weight issues to accomidate.

For us the first thing we noticed with the duel pane windows is the noise level twice as quiet inside. If you happen to have any RV dealer that is near an interstate see if they have one with Duel Pane and one without on the lot. Check it out and see for yourself. The next best thing is that the duel pane windows have given us is the cozy non drafty feeling. It seems like the Monty is so much more solid feeling like the more expensive 75,000 plus 5ers on the market. Insulation value probably not the greatest. I could still put plastic over the windows same window frame as the single pane windows for added insulation. But if I wanted more insulation I would probably like to see it added to the bottom slide areas because of the cold transfer into the rig from those areas of the Monty.

We do have the ability to lessen our weight by keeping heavier things in my tool box behind the cab of my TV and we also have an enclosed trailer that we store our Harley in so the weight factor is not a major issue. When we get ready to retire 12 yrs from now I will probably make major changes in reducing things that we will not want to take with at that time. But one thing is for sure Duel Pane windows will be on our list of options as a must.

As far as a cost factor do not look at the price that is listed, because any option has a very adjustable price when you haggle your best price. The big thing is there is 100+ percent mark up on any option and it is negotiable. If the dealer you are working with really wants the sale they will work with you on a good price just ask for it. Another thing is if you are going to be fulltiming/longtiming in your dream Monty be willing to shop around the country. You will find the right deal and I know one thing I WILL travel for a deal especially when it comes down to thousands of dollars. So use this leverage when picking your dream and go for it. I can say one thing I will never regret ordering exactly what we wanted for the little extra $$$.

Tom Gina 06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 04:28 AM   #140
Bob & Lee
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 578
M.O.C. #718
We have been in the 3400 W/dual pane windows for about 2 weeks now, we are just getting settled, we have noticed from our old 3685 w/single windows the dual's are quieter and warmer we have been able to lower the temp about 5 Deg and still stay as warm feeling. the weather here has been the coldest in many years and we are warm also I read on a tread that the windows add 200Lbs. well worth it to us and the 3400 pulls like a dream with the new suspention.
Bob & Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dual Pane Windows Jolu General Discussions about our Montanas 17 08-16-2014 11:27 AM
Dual pane windows drsmart Additions & Improvements 3 09-19-2010 05:11 PM
dual pane windows bad hawkeye Montana Problems, Problem Solving & Technical Help 26 08-25-2007 05:58 AM
dual pane windows? steelman Maintenance 6 06-28-2007 01:34 PM
Dual Pane Windows Montana_728 Full Timing in your Montana 0 01-15-2004 11:43 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×