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Old 07-11-2008, 11:41 AM   #101
Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Georgetown
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M.O.C. #956
Norcold is also recalling refrigerators. So it must be a general design problem with both manufacturers. Here is hoping there is a better design in the future.
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Old 07-11-2008, 12:31 PM   #102
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M.O.C. #6109
I was just having fun as well - I thought the dirty linen conspiracy was actually related to Splendide appliance vs Whirpool. Guess not.

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Old 07-11-2008, 02:02 PM   #103
Dean A Van Peursem
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Location: Snohomish
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M.O.C. #5583
I had planned to not offer any more messages on this thread but so much for plans. :-) I would encourage all to re-read Richfaa's last message on this thread. I agree with it wholeheartedly. The only thing that I would try to enhance is the last sentence in the first paragraph and the last sentence itself. My suggested improvement is based on the assumption that someone at Keystone/Montana reads this forum and reports back to management anything that might be significant in their minds. I may be wrong in the assumption. Since I haven't seen any kind of recall related to the repeated and wide spread problems we have discussed here on this forum, they may not be. But on the chance they may be monitoring this forum I would add to the letter writing campaign, that a copy of the letter also be posted on this forum for others to read and digest. Otherwise many of the issues brought to Montana's ATTENTION MAY NOT SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY. Many Forum members have written that they have taken preventative measures to try to get ahead of problems that others have had. I think that result makes it well worth the effort to keep this forum informed.

I know I have started to write a chronology of issues we have had to deal with on our late 2006 3400RL since purchase in May of 2006. Unfortunately it is a depressing task so I don't dwell on it very long. So it may never get done. If it ever gets completed I will post it and will mail a copy to Montana and the original dealer. I agree that this Forum shouldn't be used to organize a rebellion. However, I don't find it inappropriate at all to discuss the problems we have had to deal with.

I'll close with one additional comment about the apparent numerous problems owners have had with their appliances. We haven't had a refrigerator failure but have had a Apollo 1/2 Time Oven failure requiring complete replacement and then as a result of that replacement, another dealer trip later to get it installed correctly. But .... Ovens and refrigerators and other appliances have been around since God was a kid. Even those that switch from AC/DC to Gas. There is no rocket science involved. Therefore the fact that they are installed in a RV that has wheels isn't setting back the annals of science either. I'm sure the potential problems are well known. What I suspect is the driving force behind the high repeat of failures, is the constant pressure to reduce the costs or hold the line on the costs of the units with added features. More Bells and Whistles, which many of us will never use but impress the hell out of us during our buying phase. So we are part of the problem. However, the manufacturers of the appliances and the RV manufacturers hold the primary responsibility to provide reliable products. My guess is that if a refrigerator or oven manufacturer for the stick houses had the same rate of failure as those in the RV industry they would have immediately taken them off the market or gone out of business. Homeowners are holding those manufacturers feet to the fire but apparently we RV owners are not doing the same in the RV industry. Why is that? The only excuse I can come up with is: We have been conditioned to accept it. I don't like being manipulated that way primarily because I know that reliable products can be made at a reasonable cost. If the market demands it and there is motivation to do so. That motivation at the manufacturers level will only come from us, the RV owner community. if we demand it.

It seems to me there needs to be some kind of association formed that truly and effectively represents the RV owners. Something like a "Consumer Reports" organization and publication for the RV industry. Maybe one exists that I am not aware of. Especially one that reports warranty and out-of warranty repair frequencies and details by manufacturer and model similar to the way it is done on automobiles and trucks. Most if not all of the RV associated magazines/publications and Web Sites, I have been exposed to, appear to me to be so dependent on industry advertising that their reporting neutrality is very suspect.

And to close, the primary reason to continue to discuss these issues on this forum is to help others who may be potential buyers or help current owners so that they can take preventative measures based on information gained herein. Especially those related to safety. Thanks for listening to my sermon. :-) I didn't even use any of Jesse Jacksons words. :-) Let me repeat, w/o access to this forum, the information and knowledge gained from reading and participating in it, I just don't know how we could have survived with any sanity these first 2 years. Thanks to all.
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Old 07-11-2008, 03:28 PM   #104
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oviedo
Posts: 418
M.O.C. #8297

Late arrival here (we've been on the road on OUR first real trip with "Bella" our 10th Anniversary 2955RL)...

First, I read your article and found it to be informative with regard to what things we as MOCers need to be on the look out for during our PDIs when we purchase a new rig; how to "think out of the box" so as to prevent "Murphy" (as in "Murphy's Law) from prevailing over our plans/lives; and to anticipate unexpected expenses and less than desirable results if/as problems occur on the road.

Second, you and your spouse had a lot more fortitude than I think I would have had if that darn Murphy had resided in my Monty for as long and drastically as he did in yours on your first trip...I don't know that I would have continued on my trip with the rapid fire "episodes" your Monty experienced first time out!

Third, I am glad that you sent this to Keystone as a means to address your personal experiences and customer service/quality expectations.

Fourth, I am a bit disappointed from what appears to have been, at best, a luke warm response to your article. HOWEVER, it might be a good idea even after the fact to send a written response to Keystone (both to the customer service/warranty people as well as to the President/CEO of Keystone/Thor) as to what you would have liked to see happen during your trip in response to the situations that arose as well as what you expect to happen now that you are back from the trip to address and repair the problems that occurred to your unit specifically and possibly what they might consider for future units with regard to quality assurance/control. (Reader's Digest had an article on how to write/submit letters of complaint to companies that I found to be quite enlightening. It also reaffirmed some things my father shared with me from his MBA classes at Harvard and his 28 years as a Naval Officer...if you submit a complaint/problem to management also provide a proposed solution...while the proposed solution(s) might not be adopted they serve to keep management's eyes/ears open to your complaint as you aren't just looking at them to do all the fixing/work.)

Fifth, thank you for keeping up with the thread and interjecting your feedback to the responses to your thread. As you can see (and has been commented on already) this is certainly a very passionate group of people! Bottom line is that they truly "have your back" if and as you need them for help up front or as things happen and you are trying to figure out a seemingly impossible problem.

Finally, I look forward to "seeing/hearing" from you in the future on this truly awesome forum!

Kindest regards and a belated (but heartfelt) WELCOME!

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Old 07-24-2008, 01:38 PM   #105
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sarasota
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Thanks all for your responses. Truly, misery loves company. I do appreciate the fact that so many of you are rving with us and understand the joys and trials of this endeavor. At this time, we are resolving many of the problems outlined in my first response. Some of the problems are covered partially by warranty and others, not covered, are being resolved otherwise. Unfortunately, I've received no help whatsoever from Keystone. Thanks to Camping World and our own initiative, we are fixing the problems. Dale
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