Apollo 1/2 time oven problem - Montana Owners Club

Dean A Van Peursem · 09-10-2008, 09:48 PM

We have our late 2006 3400RL at a Montana dealer getting the black tank replaced because it cracked. While there I also asked them to repair the Apollo 1/2 time oven since the plastic drive for the glass turntable broke just before we brought the unit in for the black tank repair. This is the second Apollo 1/2 oven in our unit as we had to have the original one replaced. The original oven replacement occurred about a year ago. Now the dealer is telling me that the plastic drive gear cannot be replaced, a whole new oven is required and the replacement oven isn't under warranty any more. I'm trying to find the records as to exactly when this oven was replaced but they may be in the RV and unfortunately are 3 hours away. So I have several questions that I'm hoping you folks can help me with:

1.) What is the warranty period on a replacement Apollo 1/2 time oven?
2.) Is the original Apollo 1/2 time oven a 1000 or a 1800 Watt version and/or what is the model number for it?
3.) Has anyone else had the 1/2 time oven plastic drive gear for the carousel break and if so what did it take to get it fixed?

Sure would appreciate any help that can be provided. TIA.

bsmeaton · 09-11-2008, 07:02 AM

I personally would rather replace that junk and enjoy life - but if you really want to fix it, you probably would have much better luck going through Lynn at the distributor for Apollo. It can't be much more than a few bucks.

Somebody will have her number if it's not on the EOM page Glenn put together.

snfexpress · 09-11-2008, 08:55 AM

The model number is AAC24BIB and is 1800 watts. The "IB" part indicates that it has the attached exhaust fan.

Midwest Sales

Dean A Van Peursem · 09-11-2008, 12:26 PM

Thanks for all the info. I'll call Lynn tomorrow and see if this part is available and also try to find out if there is even a reasonable possibility to get to this part w/o tearing the whole oven apart consuming a whole bunch of labor hours for me. I priced a replacement Apollo combination oven on the WEB and got a price as low as $167.99 delivered free w/o tax. The dealer quoted me $250 for a USED replacement oven. That is outright BS. Can't trust anyone any more. I haven't tried to take the oven apart yet to see if I can get to the part but if it was assembled, I should be able to get to it. I also checked the Sears Parts store and got to a exploded parts diagram for this specific oven and it shows the part identified with a "key" number but doesn't refer to a part number. Don't know why that is yet. Wouldn't buy from them anyway since the lowest cost part on the whole oven they show is $52.00 or more. Its a throw away society folks. If I were to replace it with another oven it sure as @#$%^ wouldn't be an Apollo brand.

I'm also trying to find a high temperature glue to see if there is a possibility of gluing this thing to fix it. That would be the simplest and easiest. I don't know why this little plastic drive part would break to begin with unless it was defective or under designed to begin with. My wife is very tender and kind to her stuff and takes carefully care of appliances. My guess at the moment is the vibration, while traveling, of the carousel weakened it to where it cracked and broke. The glass carousel is quite heavy. So maybe a word of warning for others is appropriate that maybe the glass carousel s/b be removed while traveling to try to prevent this occurrence. Not sure if that is the cause, but that is all I can think of at the moment.

This is the second Apollo oven in our unit. Unfortunately the second one was installed in our unit in June of last year and therefore the one year warranty for the replacement is no longer in force. It is just one thing after another on our late 2006 3400RL. If the market was strong on RV's right now I'd sell the @#$%^&* thing. But.... not so, so....... we are stuck with it. Life is full of lessons to learn from. I've learned so much from this particular 3400RL, with its continuing problems, I should be a genius by now! :-)

dsprik · 09-11-2008, 12:57 PM

With all the bad press, Apollo has really kicked it into gear on the customer service end. They have been bending over backwards to accommodate ALL Apollos - in or out of warranty. Hopefully you will be quite happy with their response tomorrow - unless they have pulled a "Dometic" and shut down all flexibility in dealing with their customers...

exav8tr · 09-11-2008, 02:37 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by dsprik

With all the bad press, Apollo has really kicked it into gear on the customer service end. They have been bending over backwards to accommodate ALL Apollos - in or out of warranty. Hopefully you will be quite happy with their response tomorrow - unless they have pulled a "Dometic" and shut down all flexibility in dealing with their customers...

Dave I have to respectfully disagree with your comment about Apollo kicking it in gear. I had a problem with the microswitches that turn the unit on and off when the door closes. Their "fix" was for me to take it to an appliance repair guy since it was out of warranty. I also needed a door seal and was transferred to parts to order and pay for a new one, since I was out of warranty. I did both and spent less than $100.00 and DW is happy again.

It will be interesting to see what they do now.....

Phil

dsprik · 09-11-2008, 04:59 PM

Oops! Sorry about that, Phil... I may have been a little more optimistic about Apollo than I should have been? Dean, I hope your experience is better than Phil's.

Phil, how long ago was that? Just curious. Just wondering if your situation occurred prior to the flood of bad internet/forum talk hammering Apollo? I think Apollo started a conscious effort to damper all their bad press. Maybe the past 18 months or so?

Dean A Van Peursem · 09-11-2008, 05:26 PM

I'll find out if they are in the benevolent mode tomorrow. I'm a bit confused though about the model # configuration convention that was mentioned earlier in this thread. It appears to me that the model # BI suffix means "Built In" and the following letter after that is either "B" for Black, "W" for White and "S" for Stainless Steel.

Dean A Van Peursem · 09-12-2008, 09:01 AM

I've contacted Apollo. Lynn has left the comapany and Apollo doesn't care any more. I was able to find out they would be happy to sell me a new motor and the replacement plastic gear for $35 and $5 respectively. I asked why I needed a new motor when the drive gear just slips on the motor shaft. That caused the clerk to transfer me to her supervisor who wasn't in and another gal answered the transfer and took my phone number for a call back. She was antagonistic as can be. I wouldn't be surprised if I never get the call from the supervisor. Not a pleasant experience at all. I was informed that since we are on our second Apollo oven that was replaced under warranty, only the first warranty period applies. That is absolute idiocy.

Now I admit I'm at a slight disadvantage here since I don't have the unit right here to look at but as I recall the plastic drive gear appeared to me that it was mounted on a serrated motor shaft and with some work from the inside of the oven chamber it could be pulled off and a new gear pressed back on and installed properly. Now if I had been told that is impossible and why it is impossible I might have understood. Worst case, IMHO, the current motor/gear could be removed and while off a new gear could be installed on the current motor shaft. It was assembled therefore it can be removed and reassembled. But since I was asking "dumb" questions I got transferred to a supervisor and then got the run around.

I'm not holding my breath waiting for the return phone call. BTW they also told me that the Apollo ovens onm the internet do not have an external fan for built in applications. I asked for the correct model number for a replacement. AAC24 BI-B. I informed them that is the exact model number that is being sold on the internet. Their response was that they are a distributor for Apollo and couldn't be responsible for what others were selling or what Apollo was selling direct. My interpretation of their response is they are blowing smoke about the fan. A unit that has the "BI" for "Built In" application designation has the fan but I will verify with the Internet vendor. Unfortunately, I just am not willing to accept, on first blush, any vendor's, distributor's or dealer's statement related to the RV industry products any more, including Thor/Keystone/Montana. The business ethics involved in the RV industry are way below reasonable ethical standards.

I'll keep at this to try to get to the bottom of this little adventure.

bsmeaton · 09-12-2008, 09:23 AM

40 bucks sounds like a cheap fix to me if you want to keep it Dean. If you want to bring them to their knees, it probably ain't gonna happen. They (Midwest) are distributors for a product made in China. I envision a warehouse with boxes of returns in the back with a kid and a screwdriver stripping them down for parts. The door Lynn sent me as a $35 replacement was used. They are simply pass-throughs.

The market ain't that bad on these rigs. Maybe you should just box it all up and run an ad to see what happens. Fuel prices are coming down.

snfexpress · 09-12-2008, 11:05 AM

Dean,

The exhaust fan from your current unit can be put on a new one. I have done this and it wasn't difficult, at all.

exav8tr · 09-12-2008, 02:17 PM

Dave, 2 to three months ago. Lynn was still there and she is who I talked to. She was very nice but not very helpful other than telling me to take it to an appliance repairman. They did not have a list of repair centers either. We do not expect free service on out of warranty items as some others might. Not being sarcastic either, just realistic. We all know the warranty length going in and we all know that any use past the warranty date is just gravy, especially in this industry....

dsprik · 09-12-2008, 05:04 PM

Phil, I understand what you are saying. I think I have had better fortune than most on getting service/parts after warranty - even when I wasn't looking for any "freebie". However, I have run into a larger percentage of RV related industries willing to "bend" than any other industry. Everyone from Dimplex to Fantastic Vent to Keystone themselves (plus some others) have all offered free parts and/or service to me, post warranty.

My personal philosophy is that I don't expect anything more than I deserve/earn in life. But, I always seem to be blessed when I least expect it and when I most need it...

snfexpress · 09-12-2008, 06:27 PM

The cost, per an employee of MidWest sales, of the Apollo is $110. They decided that $110 was worth more than a contract with Sears for repairs, under warranty. I may not be a business guru, but I have to believe that an ongoing, on-site, contract with Sears has to cost more than the cost of the unit from China, based on their failure rate and the cost of American labor. I'm disapointed...again...and I'm on my third unit, one of which I paid retail to Midwest...I must be stupid...

Dean A Van Peursem · 09-12-2008, 07:05 PM

I have read some of the responses on this thread and am a bit astounded that it is acceptable to some of you for a vendor to build a unreliable product. I just cannot understand that we have been conditioned to accept an unreliable product. Why?? Is that because we don't care any more? We just accept it? Lets get some backbone and hold these vendors including Thor/Keystone/Montana to some level of quality and reliability. We only get what we accept. I'm not looking for a handout. I just would like to make one trip with our late 2006 Montana 3400RL without some kind of failure. Is that unreasonable? I think not. I will not or cannot rationalize this as anything but an unacceptable and disgusting $44,000 product. This is not a throw AWAY $50 PIECE OF ELECTRONICS. Get real folks!

exav8tr · 09-13-2008, 02:58 AM

Dean, I don't know what to tell you. I'm sure sorry you are having so many problems. I have the same unit and have had no where near the problems as you, perhaps If I had I would feel differently. After all, we are all products of our experiences. Perhaps being on the road the last 16 months has something to do with it, or perhaps the guys on the assembly line were having a bad day when yours was built. Sure, I have had the overtightened screw problem here and there, I just put in a larger screw and go on my way. I did get rid of all the OEM stereo and TV equipment (except the bedroom tv), but that was my choice. One recliner broke and I gave the other away and upgraded to Lazy Boy. I replaced the hitch pin to a MorRyde thru my choice. I had the JT's installed to stop the rock and roll effect, my choice. Shower leak went in twice for repair at two different repair centers, no luck, I ended up fixing that myself. Perhaps being full time means I have to work a little more, but it is something I have to do to keep on living in my home, again, my choice. I do have an appointment at Keystone during the Fall Rally for: Cracked kitchen counter, soft floor under main slide, bowed panelling near water heater, a few decals peeling, a couple loose lights and that is about it. I don't know if I will have to pay for anyting or not since I am out of warranty, but am prepared to do so if that is what it takes. I didn't mean to imply that manufacturers defects are acceptable, but I do consider most appliances as cheap and if they make it past warranty you are lucky. Should they install better equipment? Are we willing to pay for top brand equipment? That seems to be the question. I still consider the Montana a mid priced unit and, I guess that means we need to be handy with our tools and ready with our cash. I am happy with the mid priced unit and willing to fix as needed. After all, I have no other choice. I still think Keystone does a fair job, overall, in providing a quality product for the price.....

bsmeaton · 09-13-2008, 05:53 AM

Its all perspective -

busted frames and cracked siding or sinks are warranty issues.

busted Apollos and DVD players are maintenance.

With that, my Monty continues to surprise me how it holds up so well. I went in knowing that I was not willing to pay the price for Thermador, Maytag, and Sony brands in my camper, so I should not expect that kind of performance.

Now if I had a lot of money, I could have bought a Teton fifth wheel! - oh, I guess not anymore. Quality has it's consequence in a competitive market http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...ad.php?t=30703

richfaa · 09-13-2008, 07:58 AM

Well Dean..We have had as many maybe more problems that you and you know that I agree 100% with what you are saying. The fact that both of us worked to many years in industries that demanded quality control and how easy it is for the manufacturer to improve quality and what the payoff can be...guides our views. As we know The manufacturer will not improve quality unless there is a financial benefit for them to do so.As long as the consumer accepts the level of quality..that is what the manufacturer will provide. We paid about the same for our truck and expect a high level of quality and reliabilty and we get it.We do not expect that from our RV's and defend the manufacturers low quality..Absolutly amazing...... That's Rv'ing..

bsmeaton · 09-13-2008, 10:17 AM

Using your logic Rich, if you paid the same for your stick house that you did for your truck, you would expect equal quality in your stick house as well. NOT. You overpaid for your truck and underpaid for your RV and that is why the difference in quality. RVs are a few steps below temporary housing.

Dean A Van Peursem · 09-13-2008, 10:28 AM

Thanks Rich,

What isn't obvious to many consumers is that a product built to high quality standards is less costly to both the manufacturer and the consumer. Let me assure all that if a manufacturer gets a high level of warranty CALLS AND REPAIRS on a product it rapidly becomes an unprofitable product for the company. And they will immediately take corrective action no matter if it is built in the USA or elsewhere. Now unscrupulous companies may make getting repairs done and parts so difficult or expensive they hope that the owners will just throw the unit away rather than fix it. Unfortunately, I think that is Apollo's current approach.

I have found that companies who produce a quality product have less stressed out support personnel and they are typically more friendly and grounded. In my recent call to Apollo Parts, Midwest Sales, it was very easy to detect tension and defensiveness immediately since the clerks knew what was coming and have to deal WITH PROBLEMS AND UNHAPPY CUSTOMERS ALL DAY long. I got the impression that the first line of defense has been trained to immediately kick the call up to a supervisor if incoming caller doesn't roll over immediately. I don't know if anyone knew Lynn personally but I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money she left Midwest Sales due to the high level of stress. Especially if Apollo at one time had a supportive program and then started stonewalling. It is almost criminal when companies put employees through that. Especially for an employee who empathizes with their customers. When I was a General Manager of an $80 Million company we all took turns taking service and support calls including me. This was done intentionally to keep all of us in tune with what was really going on. Allot of changes occurred to products because so many of us knew what the customers were having issues with. In addition good documentation and configuration control almost became a religion. After paying close attention and a bottom up approach we were able to reduce the incomming calls significantly. We had one product that was one of our highest volume products that had a relatively minor problem that was not only driving customers nuts but our support people nuts as well. An annoyance issure rather than a product failure. We changed the product immediately, but the pipeline on high volume products is long and then we fixed those products already in the field by sending every sales person into their respective customers with a simple fix, free of charge. The customers appreciated it and the problem went away. The problem wasn't even big enough or technical enough to send in a Field Service Engineer. It also gave our sales people another opportunity to be in front of the customer to see if there were any more sales opportunities.

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