Schematic for Electric Protection Upgrades

[bncinwv]

I am going to give this a shot. Here is a schematic diagram of the ems surge protector, autoformer, generator system that I am planning to install. Again thanks to all of the MOC forum members for their input (namely H. John Kohl, Dave Sprik, Ozz and Glenn) and recommendations. Generator will be Kipor IG 3000, Surge Protector is Progressive Industries HW 50C with remote display with Hughes Autoformer installed as bypassable. Still accepting additional advice and comments on schematic (simply put....did I miss anything??). Ordering items soon.



Bingo
Edit: Think I had the 50 amp inlet reversed, corrected now.

[deadeye]

Bingo:
Looks like you have it ok. It appears that you can't have two system hooked up at the same time and that is what you want. Just from your drawing (schematic), that is what I read into it anyway....JB

[rickfox]

Bingo,

I see that you have a 3400. Can you tell me how the 240VAC is currently routed from the rear of the coach to the breaker box? Or was your rig pre-preped for a generator? I too am looking into installing an autoformer and surge protector in my 3400.

Thanks,
Rick

[bncinwv]

Rick,
We are pre-prepped, but I will not be using the features. The feed originates from the IOTA switch box as shown in the attached pictures from a previous discussion with pictures provided by H. John Kohl:
http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...ad.php?t=25557
See page two about midway down for links to John's pictures. I am not sure of the exact routing, but it is unnecessary since I am splicing everything in at the battery compartment.
Bingo

[bncinwv]

I am now looking at replacing the double connection from the generator with a single 30 amp ground line with Manco ez-lock 50 amp connector. Should be fairly weather resistannt to allow usage while in transport. I have completed pricing for all that is shown and for information purposes, the entire system is around $2500.00 with most item's coming from Tweetys.com.
Bingo

[rickfox]

Sorry Bingo, but I am still confused.

On my 3400, it appears that the 240VAC traverses from the rear of the coach, along the inside of the sewer hose compartment to a junction box just under the entertainment slide. From there it is no longer visible, so I'm guessing that it goes somewhere under the coach and ultimately to the breaker box. There does not seem to be anything in the battery compartment that is associated with the 240VAC - so I have to locate it somewhere else. I'm struggling with where that is.

[bncinwv]

Now you have me worried. I am assuming that there is an IOTA autoswitch in the battery compartment of our 3400RL but do not have access to the unit to check. If you do not have the gen-prep then I am hoping that is the difference. Any other 3400 owners out there who can chime in??? Do you have the gen-prep Rick?? Is your breaker box in the bathroom?? If it is you should be able to remove the front. pull it out and trace the feed backwards also. Hope we can get an answer soon, it may change my whole design layout?????
Bingo

[rickfox]

Bingo,

I do not have the gen prep for the 3400 but did have it on a Cardinal 5vr. For the Cardinal, the 240VAC was routed from the back of the coach up to the front storage compartment. It was then jumpered via. wirewraps to another cable that went back to the circuit breaker box. There were also some compartment modifications - a generator enclosure with blown-on insulation, and an addition vent. There was no additional electrical components such as a transfer box.

I do have the breaker box in the bathroom and realize that the 240VAC must come up through the wall common to it and the storage closet. I was hoping to find the wiring below in the underneath storage area - perhaps under the stairs that go into the bedroom. No such luck. Where are those pesky cables?

[stiles watson]

Here is my guess (emphasis on "guess"). I think the 50 amp cable runs from the rear of the unit and through the belly of the coach and then up through the wall between the bath and the closet to the converter. Ozz did some work in that area on his 3400. I hope he will chime in with some experienced insight.

[bncinwv]

Rick,
Dealer confirmed that the IOTA autoswitch is part of the generator prep so I am set to go. Sorry that doesn't help you with locating your cable.
Bingo

[bncinwv]

The deed has been done, well the purchase part of it anyway!!! Everything was ordered from Tweetys.com (thanks richfaa) who had the lowest prices except for the ems and they matched the best price I could find. Got a hunch they have won over a customer!! Total amount of everything on the schematic for those who are interested was less than $2350.00. A lot for insurance but as Rich always says the rigs cost a lot so the price of protection is low in comparison. Now if Santa would be so kind as to place a Doran system under the tree............
Installation will be forthcoming over the winter months, pictures will be posted when complete!!
Bingo

[bsmeaton]

Bingo,

Just catching up, but I think you got it. The transfer switch is in the battery compartment on my 3400. I only assume the 50A runs a straight line from the butt plug to the forward transfer switch without any detours.

Now picture a second IOTA switch on the 50A shore line and a second 50A shore in receptacle in the docking station area. The IOTA switch would prevent the male spades in the alternate receptacle from being energized.

[bncinwv]

I understand for your mid-mount access Brad, I guess one unintended benefit that I will have is I now have 50 amp shore inlets at both end of the unit. Only one can be plugged in at a time, and I will definitely adopt as standard practice that no connections are to be plugged or unplugged with any source of hot power to the rig. I may have to rethink male vs female ends when I get everything (easily reversed) to make sure potential hots are always female for safety purposes. Delivery of everything is supposed to be next week. Wonder if all of this will prolong the life of my third Apollo???? Ha Ha!!
Bingo

[bsmeaton]

If the Apollo dies this time Bingo, just use it for a junction box for all this wiring! eh? hahahah

Actually, your IOTA switch has 2 - inneys and one outy, so it will already protect your male plugs from being energized. The Hughes goes into one input, and your gen into the other. The IOTA switch will detect presence of the generator current and latch onto it, leaving the Hughes and shore line open and de-energized. Your drawing is just slightly off on this detail.

Brad

[bncinwv]

Good info Brad, I will take that into consideration when wiring it all up.
Bingo

[bsmeaton]

If you look again at Mudchiefs pic he sent you of the IOTA switch, you'll see the three cables at the top. One is ouput to the breaker panel, and the other two are the power sources that are switched by the IOTA.

[bncinwv]

Guess I will have to do some reading up on that smart-switch. I think H. John had mentioned that hookup possibility also, but I think we discussed not hardwiring it so the autoformer could be removed if necessary. Even with that it doesn't make sense not to use the switches capabilities. Will have to think about this for a couple of days!! I guess it would still function properly if the generator was not used and the shore line was hooked up to the front or the rear wouldn't it??

[bncinwv]

And slightly off-topic, Brad, the four bike front mount rack experiment was deemed a total failure. Now looking for roof top bike rack and will put a tray on the hidden hitch front receiver to carry other items (as long as they don't interfere with air flow throught the radiator), Oh well, live and learn. The blind spots from the handlebars were a definite safety hazard that I cannot have while lugging around 6-7 tons.
Bingo

[bsmeaton]

I'm sure it would Bingo, the switch can't tell what the power is coming from, just that it is there.

Here is the schematic. These are poor diagrams. For your application, neutral #2 is the bond or ground wire (4-prong 50A)

http://www.iotaengineering.com/pplib/50rint.pdf

[bsmeaton]

Interesting Bingo - I would have thought headlights, not actual obstruction. Would 2 bikes have been better? I was ready to take the bite until now.

Can't be anything wrong with the Yakima on the roof. These 4-dr pickups have as much square roof footage as any Buick!