This may be dumb....but will ask????

[Charlie 3931fb]

Hey all,
Had some friends over to the house for dinner tonight. My buddy is a truck driver (18 Wheeler) and has been driving for years. The reason for the visit was to see the new 5er. He's got 2 years to retirement and they are looking. So, my buddy could not believe that they are putting disk brakes on 5th wheel trailers these days. He then said to go one better. To convert the brakes to air driven instead of hydraulic driven. that floored me but it does make some sense to me i thnk. Also, I do have a truck that has air brakes on it. So here is my questions...

Lets not discus the price of doing this but the safety and benefit of going to air brakes.

Is it a good idea and has anyone ever seen or heard of it being done to a Montana 5er?

Also if I do it now I am sure that it would violate my warranty on that part of the trailer.

As I said I know that this may sound dumb but it does have me thinking a little bit. So please do not send me to the loony farm to fast....LOL


Charlie

[PNW Fireguy]

This is how many HDT rigs run since they have onboard air.

[Dave W]

Whan I added discs to ours, did a little research and found that adding an ir brake system was cost and space prohibitive. You need at a minimum:

- 12VDC fairly high output compressor,

- one or more tanks

- air dryers

- an electric over air modulating controller on the tow vehicle
- special air lines made up to order
- a special caliper not easily obtainable.
The only part that 'grabs space on a disc system is the acuator and on ours, that space is 3"x14" which includes the single hydraulic line through the floor and for a Hydrastar unit.



Hydraulic disc brakes added to any towed RV are serviceable by any local garage if not, by a reasonably competant DIYer. Repair parts are easily available with pads being if a Kodiak system, from NAPA or similar and caliper rebuild kits from the same sources as they are '90s metric GM clones. Dexter systems are a bit more difficult to find parts but are still readily available.


Add all that up plus the fact that these disc brakes work very well when compared to the usual electromagnet junk normally supplied and are at least as good as the brakes on your pickup

[DutchmenSport]

Might be an OK after market conversion on conventional factory built travel trailer or fifth wheel for the DIY person and only if you have the tow vehicle equipped to support air brakes on the trailer.

But this is also something else to think about, your vehicle will be about the only vehicle available to safely tow the trailer. In the event of truck mechanical failure, or simply the need for another vehicle to tow the trailer, there will not be a compatibility between someone else's tow vehicle and your trailer.

One reason I was so reluctant to move from a travel trailer to a fifth wheel was the fact, pretty much anything could tow a bumper-pull travel trailer. Stepping up into the fifth wheel arena and all of a sudden, "what" can tow the fifth wheel just reduced in numbers and availability significantly.

We never had a problem with any of our travel trailers, just about 2 months ago we had truck failure which required separate tows for truck and trailer. The towing company sent out a conventional F350 dually with a fifth wheel hitch in the bed to tow the trailer. And he was able to simply plug in the electric plug and he had lights and brakes on the trailer.

If the trailer was equipped with air brakes, we would have had a real problem.

I'm not saying you should not convert your trailer over, but consider also how much you are limiting it. Not to mention, what happens when you decide to sell it and you can't find a single person who is equipped with an air brake system on their tow vehicles.

It's just something to REALLY think about. Again, I'm not saying "don't do it" ... no, no, no. I'm just saying, "think" about it before you do.

[Theunz]

Have you ever had to crawl under your trailer with a propane torch to thaw out your frozen air brakes? I have and it’s no fun! The air collects moisture and can freeze which means you are going nowhere.

[TLightning]

Why change the braking system? I don't see the advantages out weighing the disadvantages.

[Jeff n Susan]

With air brakes some states require a CDL also

[Charlie 3931fb]

Originally Posted by Dave W

Whan I added discs to ours, did a little research and found that adding an ir brake system was cost and space prohibitive. You need at a minimum:

- 12VDC fairly high output compressor,

- one or more tanks

- air dryers

- an electric over air modulating controller on the tow vehicle
- special air lines made up to order
- a special caliper not easily obtainable.
The only part that 'grabs space on a disc system is the acuator and on ours, that space is 3"x14" which includes the single hydraulic line through the floor and for a Hydrastar unit.



Hydraulic disc brakes added to any towed RV are serviceable by any local garage if not, by a reasonably competant DIYer. Repair parts are easily available with pads being if a Kodiak system, from NAPA or similar and caliper rebuild kits from the same sources as they are '90s metric GM clones. Dexter systems are a bit more difficult to find parts but are still readily available.


Add all that up plus the fact that these disc brakes work very well when compared to the usual electromagnet junk normally supplied and are at least as good as the brakes on your pickup

Originally Posted by DutchmenSport

Might be an OK after market conversion on conventional factory built travel trailer or fifth wheel for the DIY person and only if you have the tow vehicle equipped to support air brakes on the trailer.

But this is also something else to think about, your vehicle will be about the only vehicle available to safely tow the trailer. In the event of truck mechanical failure, or simply the need for another vehicle to tow the trailer, there will not be a compatibility between someone else's tow vehicle and your trailer.

One reason I was so reluctant to move from a travel trailer to a fifth wheel was the fact, pretty much anything could tow a bumper-pull travel trailer. Stepping up into the fifth wheel arena and all of a sudden, "what" can tow the fifth wheel just reduced in numbers and availability significantly.

We never had a problem with any of our travel trailers, just about 2 months ago we had truck failure which required separate tows for truck and trailer. The towing company sent out a conventional F350 dually with a fifth wheel hitch in the bed to tow the trailer. And he was able to simply plug in the electric plug and he had lights and brakes on the trailer.

If the trailer was equipped with air brakes, we would have had a real problem.

I'm not saying you should not convert your trailer over, but consider also how much you are limiting it. Not to mention, what happens when you decide to sell it and you can't find a single person who is equipped with an air brake system on their tow vehicles.

It's just something to REALLY think about. Again, I'm not saying "don't do it" ... no, no, no. I'm just saying, "think" about it before you do.

Originally Posted by Theunz

Have you ever had to crawl under your trailer with a propane torch to thaw out your frozen air brakes? I have and it’s no fun! The air collects moisture and can freeze which means you are going nowhere.

Originally Posted by TLightning

Why change the braking system? I don't see the advantages out weighing the disadvantages.

Thanks for all the great feed back. I have a 5500 Dodge ram 5 tom with air brakes on the truck and air for trailer pulling. It has a Bendix air drier with all the glad hand hook ups for the trailer. SO that would just be changing the trailer to air. Not that I want to do this or will I do this because I want to stay with my 1 ton (3500) Ram and not have to drive that queen mary around while we are traveling. Also do not want to ruin my warranty that we have on the new unit. Like I said Its a dumb question but sounded good when I first heard it .

Again Thank you so much for your in put.


Charlie

[jimandlaurie]

Our new Kenworth and Peterbilt trucks came with Air/over Disks all way around. No problems with them ,but not sure if there will be trailers with the setup, but am sure the trailer companies are looking at the idea. After that time will tell if it trickles down to towable RVs.

[StageCoachDriver]

WOW! I would never spend time with someone who travels interstate. I have several friends who are over the road truckers and they are afraid to spend time with their families when they're in town. One friend even had his co-driver tested positive for COVID-19. All it takes is a fuel pump nozzle to cross contaminate from one driver to the next. I won't even allow my children, who live in another state, to visit us. We use FaceTime and Zoom to keep up with friends and family.

[mazboy]

you do realize that having disc brakes are a safety improvement from regular brakes.

[laverdur]

I get the idea but those 18 wheelers are hauling 80K pounds. Our Montys are way below that. Some TV come equipped with OEM controllers that are electric over hydraulic compatible. Don't know of any that work with air. For the weight involved, I'm thinking disc brakes are the answer.

[Jester]

Dave, I think he’s towing with a vehicle already equipped with an Air brake system...

[Charlie 3931fb]

Thank you all for the information on this post. Lots of good stuff to read and learn about. Love this forum. You guy's are all very helpful all the time...

Have a great day...

Charlie

[Todd727]

Originally Posted by Jeff Myers

With air brakes some states require a CDL also

No, only if he would otherwise require a CDL. Then he would have to get a CDL without an air brake limitation.

[BiggarView]

If it aint broke don't fix it. Electric over hydraulic disc brakes are time tested... it works.

[CruzinMooses]

Let me start with my background...35 years as a truck driver that has logged over 4 million miles. I also spent the last 6 years as a part time mechanic in the shop where I drive truck working on trucks and trailers so I have replaced a lot of brakes....


Why would you replace disk brakes with a drum brake? What happens when metal gets hot ? It expands, basic physics. So you have a brake drum that gets hot and expands the brake shoes have further to travel to make contact which leads to brake fade, that is why major hills have run away truck escape routes.



Now lets look at disk brakes, the rotor is in the middle of the brake pads which are compressed together to brake. now if the rotor gets hot and starts to expand then the gap between the rotor and pads get smaller not larger. That being said hot metal still will not brake as well as cold metal but you would still have better stopping ability with the disks over drum.


Also as one other poster asked have you ever had to crawl under a trailer to break loose (IE Bang the crap out out the brakes) I have more times that I care to think about and it sucks. I know the OP said he has an air dryer on his truck but trust me you still have enough moisture in the air system to freeze up air brake valves. I know, been there, done that...


Do yourself a favor and leave your electric over hydraulic disk bakes alone...


Meanwhile I get to order and then install replacement disk brake for my HC to replace those crappy/cheap electro mechanical drum brakes...

[paulinbaja]

I've been pulling travel trailers and fifthwheels for forty plus years and NEVER had a problem with factory drum brakes on any unit. I've encountered having to replace warn parts, magnets, shoes and drums and had to repair broken wires to magnets but this is normal wear and whatever system you use is subject to normal wear. I always question replacing the factory system when sooooooo many have been soooooo successful for sooooooo many miles.

My first thought is are those wanting to do this ridding their brakes, or having too much trailer braking or what? Not condemning, but wandering why?

[jeffba]

Originally Posted by paulinbaja

I've been pulling travel trailers and fifthwheels for forty plus years and NEVER had a problem with factory drum brakes on any unit. I've encountered having to replace warn parts, magnets, shoes and drums and had to repair broken wires to magnets but this is normal wear and whatever system you use is subject to normal wear. I always question replacing the factory system when sooooooo many have been soooooo successful for sooooooo many miles.

My first thought is are those wanting to do this ridding their brakes, or having too much trailer braking or what? Not condemning, but wandering why?

Well enough people have been having issues with OEM drum brakes. Myself included. on TT for years never an issue. Ours failed 5 months after dealer inspection. Disk brakes offer better braking, and reliability. We are looking at getting disk brakes as soon as the piggy bank gets refilled.

[paulinbaja]

Originally Posted by jeffba

Well enough people have been having issues with OEM drum brakes. Myself included. on TT for years never an issue. Ours failed 5 months after dealer inspection. Disk brakes offer better braking, and reliability. We are looking at getting disk brakes as soon as the piggy bank gets refilled.

I'm all for you. Someone mentioned heat and without question disks are superior regarding heat. But my trailers are able to lock all 4 wheels on pavement and have very smooth braking under normal driving conditions, is there anything more to good braking?

Please I'm being argumentative for the sake of the discussion. What is important is that you are comfortable with your rig.