Decal update and a BIG thank you, Aram & Keystone

[sreigle]

Once again, here's proof that Keystone actually reads this forum. Please see below. Also, if you would like to comment on how Keystone has gone beyond to help you out, also see below.

First, yesterday I got a call from Carmen (with whom I had been working) saying they will provide the nose decals and will install them for us. I had requested they do so while we are in Goshen next week. After discussing possible dates she called back today. They will take care of it next Tuesday, my preferred date. Many thanks to Keystone and to Carmen.

A couple of hours after Carmen's call (yesterday) I got an email from Aram Koltookian, VP of the Montana Division. I'm not sure the title is exactly correct but he's the top dog of the division.

Aram agreed that decals should "stand the test of time" and, as he said it, "22 months is not the test." He explained they do not try to buy materials as cheaply as possible. They try to buy materials that will last well but as we all know only time will tell if the choice was a good one.

Aram also mentioned they are trying to meet the customer service needs as best they can. He mentioned all the work done outside of warranty at the various rallies and other situations. He mentioned they try to do as much as they can but we also have to understand there are times they have to draw the line and say it's out of warranty. Still, they go beyond what they would have to do when you consider the written warranties. I think many of us have benefited from this attitude. And it's that attitude that brought us back to Montana a second and third time.

As in most forums, we see many negative posts and few good posts. It's just the nature of the beast. Keystone has gone above and beyond for so many of us. I wish I were better about publishing that information here.

Anyone out there who would like to pat Keystone on the back for a job well done, please feel to say so in this thread. I'll start it out.

First, we technically are out of warranty on these decals. But Keystone has acknowledged expected life should be longer and they are replacing the decals and providing installation labor to replace them.

Second, when we were at the Service Center last year to have a defective axle replaced (under warranty), the service writer asked me to tell him everything wrong with the coach I know of. I even asked where we can buy the string for one of our blinds. The string had broken. So what did Keystone do? While we were there they replaced the entire blind with a new one. They went through the electrical system, to ensure it's ok. They checked and found a propane leak and fixed it. They took care of everything I listed. This kind of service is why we are third time Montana owners.

Keystone, many thanks. Aram Koltookian, thank you very much for recognizing a bad situation and doing something about it. We appreciate it very much.

[steves]

It’s good to hear that Keystone has come through and made good on a reasonable (out of warranty) request. I too have had similar experiences dealing with Customer Relations and the Service Center - that’s why I have a 3rd Montana on Order. Many companies fail to recognize the market niche of repeat owners and the word of mouth related to satisfied customers.

Keystone/Aram/ Owners Relations - Thank you for listening and stepping up when it’s the correct action to take. You are making a difference and that’s what keeps me in a Montana

[8.1al]

Steve,
Glad to hear Montana is installing the graphics for you(that means I won't have to)and that the wonderful customer service is still there. While they have not replaced any graphics for me they have graciously kept me supplied with them when needed and for that I am grateful. My hats off to Montana

[tom41]

Steve glad you came out great on the decals. While owning several rv's in the past years, this is our first montana. The reason we chose a montana 1=the montana dealer, Northgate RV has a really great reputation for service after the sale, 2nd=I had talked to several monty owners before I bought. So far I have had no major problems with this momtana, nothing that I couldnt fix myself. From reading your post here just makes me proud I am a montana owner! thanks for the post
Tom

[Parrothead]

So I guess if we want ours fixed we have to go to Indiana. I have been trying for 3 years to get our two problems fixed. I'm not one to keep at it after 3 or 4 times. We will continue to be a bad advertisement for Montana as far as decals go. We love everything else about our Montana and tell people what a great unit it is.
We have probably just been in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Happy trails...............................

[Emmel]

Well, Steve, we will add to the great response from the service center and from Keystone. 2 years ago this past May, we had 2 new axles, 4 tires and labor taken care of from Keystone. Now our unit is an 04, but we picked it up in August of 03, so the Montana was almost 3 full years old or 2 years out of warranty, but they still stood behind their product!
And when we were at the rally last year, they fixed some minor problems we had and also did the electric and propane system checks. We also had a propane problem that we didn't even know we had and they took care of it!
This is our second Montana and when it comes time to replace it, there will be another Montana in it's place!
Thank you Keystone and the service center, we do appreciate you taking care of us, your customers!

[mtpocket2]

Parrothead
You are not alone. I fail to understand how this can be seen as great customer service. So it took pictures, phone calls and 5 pages of people complaining before Keystone does what it should have done on the first call. We too are happy with our unit but Keystone is really awful at customer service. I am happy our warranty is almost over because it certainly has been disappointing to say the least dealing with customer service! Our decals are fine but should they fail and not be replaced at no charge I will have some custom ones made up on my dime. I hope campgrounds will still let me in .

[boylanag]

Steve, we are glad and not really surprised that you were taken care of so well. We, too, have been given nothing but great service from Montana. We bought our second Montana without even shopping other brands because of the fine experiences we had with the first one. From Aram on down to Darryl Turner and the techs in the Service Center, we are very pleased and are contented Montana owners. That is why it is so great that the fall rally is held in Goshen. The fine service that is done year round is front and center for the MOCers that attend this rally. Some posters on other forums berate people that extol the virtues of a manufacturer but when it is the truth, it must be spoken.

[exav8tr]

I hope this holds true for the rest of us. I am calling tomorrow to try and make an appointment with the service center. I have several things that could be fixed. Crack in countertop, spongy floor in main slide and a bowed panel near the kitchen sink. Nothing really pressing but I think should be handled by Keystone, although out of warranty these things should not happen. I am going to be positive and rely on Keystones great customer service to set this straight.

[D and M On The Road]

mtpocket2.... I am very pleased for the Reigels that Keystone has stepped up and is going to take care of the Reigel's problem with their decals.

But I also feel the way that you do. Keystone should have taken care of replacing the decals and installing them with Reigel's first phone call. It should not have taken more phone calls and multiple pages of MOC members expressing dissatisfaction before Keystone decided they needed to step in and offer to pay for the installation. You bet Keystone reads the MOC and what they are doing for the Reigels is not customer service, it's damage control.

A few months ago we (and another MOC member) finally paid for an entire set of new graphics that Burlington Graphics gave us a tremendous price cut on. Is Keystone going to pay to install them for us now? Will they reimburse us for the cost of the graphics? We've been asking Keystone for help off and on since late 2003 and our Montana is a 2002. If I sound angry, I am and I apologize to the MOC members reading this, but I don't apologize to Keystone.

As much as we love our Montana..... we aren't happy campers with Keystone.

Margee Hatton

[richfaa]

We have never been disappointed in the customer service from Keystone and Team Montana. Aram's reply is a good one and we agree. You know out of warranty IS out of Warranty. If we expect warranty service 3 months out of warranty why not 4 months out of warranty..it is just another 30 days, etc.Personally we are out of warranty., We knew of the one year bumper to bumper warranty and the differeing vendor warranties when we purchased. If we wanted more we could have purchased SOB. I do not expect repair or replacement of items out of warranty on my Montana, Ford Truck or anything else.. Which is why we did much homework and puchased a extended warranty (service contract) that will cover the majority of the now out of warranty items. Our 3400 is just over 2 years old with no decal problem.If the life of the decals are stated to be around 5 to 6 years then I expect that and would expect some relief from the vendor or Keystone on replacement. I know some will disagree but in my experience Keystone/ Montana has gone out of the way to satisfy my needs. If you have NOT been to a fall rally, the factory, the service
center, the vendors.. you need to make every effort to get there and see and gain a understanding of how this industry works and meet face to face the very folks, Including Aram , Offical title, Montana product Manager, who service us... You may still not be satisfied every time ..but you will understand.Let me make this very clear..I HAVE NOT got my way every time I asked for something from Montana or one of the vendors..but I understand why..

[sreigle]

I wanted to add that I agree with Rich's comments. Any work done beyond the warranty period is customer service beyond what is required. And there has to be some limit, some cutoff point. I don't know what the decal expected life is but Aram feels it is more than 22 months. That's why they have agreed to take care of it.

I also want to comment, as Rich did, that I also have NOT GOT my way every time I contact Montana. A poster a few years ago insisted I got special treatment because of my number of posts on this forum. Well, folks, if that were the case, we'd not be paying four figures next week to replace our 22 month old axles. Keystone insists it's not a warranty problem. I disagree but I could be wrong and they could be correct. It's not provable either way. So we'll spend the money to take care of this. I can't fault Keystone in this case.

The Customer Service personnel are just doing the job as they see it should be done, or as they are told it should be done. In my case, my post was brought to Aram's attention. It looks to me like he saw that Customer Service was not following the policies he'd like followed so he did something about it. In this case it really is damage control. But that's what a good manager does. See a problem, fix it. And right the ship so it hopefully doesn't happen again. Many of us here spent much of our careers in management positions and can very much relate to this situation.

I hope I haven't caused anyone to set expectations too high for what Montana will do in the way of post-warranty customer service. They have to draw lines somewhere. I'd bet that line will be based on what they feel should be the normal expected life of the part in question. And whether the problem appears to be because of faulty workmanship or defective parts or if it's abuse or normal wear. I just have to remember that ANYTHING they do that is outside of warranty is a benefit to me they are not required to give and is something I cannot expect.

There are other good RV manufacturers out there. But based on discussions with other owners the past several years, there are few that will not turn their back on your requests after warranty. There are a few but very few. We all know Montana is the number one seller in North America the past six (or is it seven now?) years. Any company can hit number one for a year, maybe even two. But, to do so for six years in a row you have to not only build a good product at an affordable price, you also have to be there for the followup that creates repeat customers and word of mouth sales. Sure looks that way to me, anyhow.

[Glenn and Lorraine]

I am also completely sold on the service I have received from Keystone, We are on our second Montana and when it's time for a new rig it will also be a Montana. I have stated many times that I wouldn't consider owning any other brand. You will never see posting under the S O B thread.

As for those disgruntled with Keystone I can only ask one question..."What was your attitude, demeanor when you made the calls?" Having been in the retail end of business I have dealt with some very understanding, cool, calm customers and I have many times had the caller with an attitude. The bad attitude would put me off almost immediately. I would try my best to calm him/her down but to no avail. It is those types that will turn off even the most experienced customer service rep. Remember the "customer service rep" is just that a "customer service rep". In actuality he is your personal representative. He is the one going to bat for you in getting your work completed in a timely fashion but he does have procedures to follow including the written warranty. Now if you are cool, calm and collected he may go that extra step for you but if you have a bad attitude I can almost guarantee you will be put off.
It's a known fact that if you want to be treated like a human being than you damn well be treating the customer service rep like a human.
Think about it..."Treat that cust serv rep exactly the same way you would want to be treated"
"You get more sugar with honey than you will with vinegar”

[rvghostdriver]

Keystone wre good to me when I needed them to help me. I will buy another Montana when I ever buy another one.

[Sunshine]

Two years ago at the fall rally, Keystone customer service fixed our frame flex problem, at no cost to us, and also checked the electrical and propane systems. Our Montana at that time was a 2000, used, and out of warranty. We've been satisfied with the way Keystone customer service has treated us. There have been some very good points made here. It is frustrating for all concerned when components fail on such expensive units, but I don't believe that a manufacturer would purposely install components they knew were defective, just so they would have the "pleasure" of dealing with pi$$ed off customers all the time. When dealing with customer service we should have realistic expectations, approach the situation courteously, pursue our quest for satisfaction, and appreciate service we receive over and above the norm. Is Keystone perfect?---No, but it seems that they do read the forum, and they do make positive changes based on what their customers post. Steve and Vicki - we're happy that Aram handled your situation to your satisfaction. Safe travels.

[exav8tr]

I spoke to a very pleasant gentleman this morning at the service center. His name was Mike and since my unit is out of warranty he is checking with someone to see how they are going to handle the out of warrany issues at the rally and will call me back. Looking forward to his call.....

[D and M On The Road]

In all my emails and phone calls to Keystone I have always been very nice. I too have worked and still work in a "customer service" department and I know that being demanding and rude is not the way to be.

I started our quest for help with graphics while our Montana was in warranty. I was sent from the dealer to Keystone and back to the dealer so many times I felt like I was on a merry-go-round. Keystone should have stopped the merry-go-round and helped me. I finally gave up.

I spent many hours, emails and phonecalls around the country researching graphics and their maintenance and reported back here at the MOC everything I learned. Sooner or later anyone who has graphics on ANYTHING whether it be an RV or something else, will have problems with them. It's just the nature of the beast.

This year, our decals are so bad that we couldn't ignore them any longer. So we ended up dealing with the very nice folks at Burlington.

All manufacturers should step up and help anyone who is having a problem within the warranty period. Any problems out of warranty should be dealt on a case-by-case issue. I never begrude anyone who can get help from the manufacturer.

I think it's very sad that the Reigels went through what they did. I know what they feel like.

Help should have been offered at the beginning and not have taken a person of higher authority to read about it on the MOC before they stepped up to help.

Maybe they need to put in place a procedure at Keystone for customers who get turned down on work or just-out-of-warranty work. Have each incident written up by the customer service person who turned down the request and those requests should go to a person of higher authority to review.

Margee.

[sreigle]

The new decals have been installed and they look great. My thanks to Keystone. Had ours been an older unit I doubt they'd have installed them but they agreed the decals should last longer than 22 months.

[exav8tr]

See my post above, 23 Jul called customer service and have yet to receive a call back. I am moving Monday so will check with them again on Tuesday. If they won't look at my unit, the least they can do is call me back and let me know so I can make other plans. I do not like being left in limbo........

[stiles watson]

Met a couple at a CG in Amarillo, TX, yesterday. Seems they have a 2002 32?? Montana. They were not members of the MOC (so I told them about it). They had the frame flex problem. The dealer in Oklahoma City made it worse. They took it from south Texas to Goshen, were put up in a motel at Keystone's expense until they got it fixed. They said that they have had decal problems and Keystone has mailed them new decals every time. They were very happy with their Montana and Keystone.

It was great to find some folks that had never even heard of the MOC, getting great service from Keystone.