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02-14-2007, 06:26 AM
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#1
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Green Valley
Posts: 1,618
M.O.C. #6022
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feedback on air pin boxes
For those of you who have an air pin box (5th Airborne, TrailAir, etc.), I'd like to get some feedback on why you selected the particular unit you did instead of some other air pin box--i.e., was there something that made you think one air pin box was better than another and/or gave more bang for the buck?
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02-14-2007, 06:52 AM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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We do not have either one of those..however..We are familiar with the trail-air and just yesterday got a good look at the 5th airborne pin box at Camping world in Mesa, Az. Although they look different they both appear to work on the same principle,, Shock absorber, air bag. To this non expert they look like they do the same thing..I would suggest a close personal look. We have the Mor-Ryde and it is to be noted that the Mor-Ryde and the trail air, 5th airborne are designed to do different things.
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02-14-2007, 06:54 AM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lone Tree
Posts: 5,615
M.O.C. #6109
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David,
We chose the Fifth Airborne over the Trailair for the simple reason of looks. Although they each pivot from different ends, I believe the overall operation is identical and they are both rated at 21K. I just liked having the air bag and shock tucked inside the box rather than exposed out front. Just a personal preference.
Costwise - the Fifth Airborne is a few hundred dollars cheaper.
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02-14-2007, 07:44 AM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,733
M.O.C. #5751
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I don't know, having experience with just the 5th Abn, but seems they'd all do the job. I got a deal from my dealer ('cause I bought a Spendide W/D at the same time) for $750 installed. Like Brad, I prefer all the parts being out of sight and the weather.
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02-14-2007, 07:55 AM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Aurora
Posts: 635
M.O.C. #1475
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We bought our TrailAir system on the return trip to CNY from Spokane WA via Denver. After having been severely jounced and bumped about (to the point that Pat could barely walk when she got out of the TV) we were desperate for relief. Did some quick research on the net at suggestion of fellow campers. Called ahead to TrailAir in Goshen--and they scheduled us right into their on-site installation group. Stayed at the fair grounds in Goshen and TrailAir installed the system by lunch time the next AM. On the way home, Pat left a bottle of pills on the table. They were still there when we pulled into storage. We couldn't be happier with their hitch and air-ride suspension, the personnel or the performance of the product. JMHO. One does the best one can with whatever the situation.
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02-14-2007, 08:48 AM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sioux Falls
Posts: 729
M.O.C. #3206
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we chose the 5th airborne from CW because it blends well to our Monty, CW has a $100. gift card with purchase and installation, and it was convenient to have it done there. haven't pulled far yet but was pleased with the smooth firm ride back to the CG - Don
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02-14-2007, 09:05 AM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Brownsburg
Posts: 1,186
M.O.C. #5634
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Why did I install TrailAir - it was because it was on display at my dealer and that is the product line he handled. He installed and I am a happy camper when it comes to making a difference in the ride. I have nothing against 5th Airborne and if my dealer handled that line it would probably be installed on my montie. I guess to have the best of both worlds you could installed a Mori/ride pin box and put in on a hitch that had air bags but that is for those whom money is not an issue like Lonnie or Montana Sky or Steve Riegle you know all them rich folks.
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02-14-2007, 09:37 AM
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#8
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: anywhere
Posts: 912
M.O.C. #6260
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Looked at both but went with the 5th Airborne. From the literature (and demonistration we saw) the 5th handles chucking and bounce, the others seem to dampen one or the other but not both. We had ordered the TrailAire but cancelled and had the 5th installed after the dealer demonstrated both to us. The cost was not the deciding factor, we wanted the best ride comfort. Did we get it, hell I don't know. But we are happy with what we have.
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02-14-2007, 10:04 AM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lone Tree
Posts: 5,615
M.O.C. #6109
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David,
May not make any difference to your LB TV, but I'm sure that Big Sky will have the Lippert 1116 pin box. The Fifth Airborne replacement 5AB-S500 is 1-1/2" shorter in length. It made things a little tight with my SB F350.
I have no idea on the Trailair.
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02-14-2007, 10:19 AM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Down the Road
Posts: 5,627
M.O.C. #889
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You can order the Mor/Ryde hitch pin for the new Big Sky at time of order placement. There was a picture of a Big Sky someone posted that was at a dealership who had the Mor/Ryde on it already. In my opinion it looks alot like the the Glide Ride pin, and looks to work in the same fashion.
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02-14-2007, 10:29 AM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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I would say that Brad has the best rational for choosing Trail air or 5th airborn .. The Mor Ryde primarily addresses the chucking motion and when looking at one it is easy to see that. The rubber pad asorbs some of the up and down motion and the Mor Ryde suspension on the newer Montanas smooths the ride out even more. We saw the 5th airborn on sale at C.W yesterday..that is a heck of a deal.This non expert can see no way the 5th air borne or Trail air can handle chucking at all..there is no back and forth movement at all.it is all shock absorber and air bag..all up and down bounce.
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02-14-2007, 11:13 AM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: _
Posts: 5,238
M.O.C. #6337
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Rich,
I am gonna have to disagree with you a bit here.
We own the predessor to the fifth airborne, the Isolator, basic same construction and design.
It does NOT stop all chucking, you are correct. HOWEVER, it stops about 75 to 85% of it for us.
A shock and air bag counteract just more than the up and down, they assist on reducing the rolling affects you get on the hard road.
I cannot explain it better than that, I am no mechanical genius, I just know what we experienced before the Isolator and what we experience now. Huge reduction in all backlash movement in Big Butt, chucking reduced LOTS.
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02-14-2007, 12:10 PM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lone Tree
Posts: 5,615
M.O.C. #6109
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It is a bit confusing, but here's how it works for chucking. You'll notice that your hitch plate pivots in the middle and angles foward or backwards. Because the air pin boxes pivot either front or back (depending on brand), thier only real range of motion is an angle forward or backward with the pin, air bag expanding or contracting as the angle increases or decreases. This motion works in harmony with the pivot of the hitch. Not only does the air pin box provide buffering to the up and down shock on the road, it also rolls forward and backward on the hitch plate pivot providing a level of buffer for the chucking. If your hitch did not pivot, the air pin box would be totally useless as it could never realize it's range of motion.
I watched a fella with a Tailair pull up next to me at a light, and it was amazing to watch the pin box in action. His truck stopped, but the trailer kept rolling foward slightly, tilting his hitch foward. It then recoiled backwards slightly, tilting the hitch towards the back. All this with no up or down motion involved. The air bag did it's thing and I bet the driver didn't feel a thing.
Is it as effective as a mor-ryde rubber shear for chucking? Probably not. Does it buffer chucking within it's limitations? Yes.
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02-14-2007, 01:05 PM
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#14
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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Brad..I am still a non expert but your explanation is enlightening.We get no noticeable bounce with the Mor Ryde pin box and Mor Ryde suspension. We can see the pin box floating around back there. It was once explained to me that the Trail air pin box takes out 90 % of the bounce and 10% of the chucking motion and the Mor Ryde takes out 90% of the chucking motion and 10 % of the bounce. My guess is that the Mor Ryde suspension reduces the bounce somewhat also. There are campers in our local camper group with both systems with no complaints. Did I mention that I got a really good deal on the Mor-Ryde pin box when we purchased the 3400 ..that being the primary reason we have it.
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02-14-2007, 01:29 PM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lone Tree
Posts: 5,615
M.O.C. #6109
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Rich,
The explanation given to you was probably pretty close given the actual design differences. I think you have about 3" fore and aft motion, where the air pin box would never be able to move that far forward or back, but will move about 3-4" up and down.
Folks would just need to make a decision based on what is the most aggrevating type symptom they have and do thier best to get the right equipment to counteract that.
I'm sure you noticed as I did - the first thing that makes you uneasy is seeing that Monty moving separately from the truck! That first glance in the mirror will give you a pucker
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02-14-2007, 01:33 PM
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#16
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lobelville
Posts: 2,128
M.O.C. #6650
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Our Cambridge came with the Mor/Ryde Pin Box and Suspension, however when we upgrade then to the GMC 3500 1 ton dually we installed the Trailer Saver Air ride 5th wheel hitch. Because the 1 ton has the steel suspension and we decided to limit more stress on the Cambridge. It is a awesome system, and when we upgraded to the Chevy Kodiak c4500 the Trailer Saver fit the Reese rails which was already mounted on the Kodiak. Never have owned the Airborne or TrailAir, what little I know about them I believe both systems will work. The Airborne has the air bag hidden from sun light which is very important. The sun light destroys rubber... I did see the Airborne hitch in Mesa Arizona also. And have seen several of the Trailair systems in use.. Good Luck on your choice...GBY...
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02-14-2007, 01:36 PM
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#17
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bum F Egypt
Posts: 979
M.O.C. #2733
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I'm also not an expert but just like to add, is it true that the 5th wheel need to be elevated higher to hitch the Trail Air. The way the Airborne is built it looks like that is not necessary when hitching. I don't have ether one this is just an observation on my part.
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02-14-2007, 04:13 PM
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#18
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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Actually we get more bounce with the dually when the camper is not hooked up.When towing about 95% of the time it is a smooth ride and there is no indication the camper is back there.. Only on very rough roads..like in Mich and that stretch of road West Of OKC do we get a little bounce and chuck.I see campers passing us and the folks in the truck rocking and rolling where we are having a smooth ride.I also think many folks get mixed up as to if it is bounce or chuck they are experiencing.
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02-14-2007, 06:03 PM
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#19
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Down the Road
Posts: 5,627
M.O.C. #889
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In 15,000 miles of towing my coach across every type of road imaginable, I have not found a need to upgrade the king pin. I have found on the bumpy roads just slowing down a few miles per hour will usually take care of the harsh ride. I have not noticed any chucking or body roll that would cause me any concern or trouble. Maybe it is my Superglide's 4 way pivot head that takes care of it for me??
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02-14-2007, 10:49 PM
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#20
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Montana Fan
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Thornton
Posts: 178
M.O.C. #5799
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Excellent and timely topic. We currently tow with an F350 4X4 SRW Short bed. Last year we logged just over 20K miles with our Valley 16K Slider. No air bags or pin box. In our case, the slider is a must for tight parking. I wish I opted for the autoslider, but maybe someday... On short run (less than 300 miles) the jerking motion is OK. On our longer multi-day runs, it gets very tiring. This year we expect a similar amount of traveling (VT to FL in the spring, VT to Montana summer, plus a number of runs between VT and PEI). So, the experiences others have with upgrades is great.
One thing I noticed; it seems the air hitch systems are more limited in the slider config. There is a nice box I can add to the Valley Slider, but it does not offer as much isolation as the non-sliding options. Price is the killer here now matter what I do. And I really think the big issues for us is the jerking back and forth, not the overall ride comfort which it seems an air hitch is the solution for??
So with that, the mor-ryde pin box seems like a good place to start. Around $700 and easy to install, so I am thinking of starting there. Hopefully that will do the trick... Cost is always a factor, but really not because I don't want to invest the money, just that I want to be sure before I do, it is worth it... Anyone had any luck getting a dealer to offer demo/loaner units. It seems the best solution needs to be fitted with the particilar TV, 5th and personal ride comfort. I would invest say $2K if I could be sure the ride would greatly improve our LD trips... but how to be sure with out demo program???
Comments and experiences on this thread are great thanks, and the next best thing to a demo program... also wanted to pass on a link a review of the mor-ryde pin box as it seems like a positive review...
http://www.morryde.com/pdfs/MorRydeT...railerlife.pdf
Best Regards,
Tim
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