A bad Montana.. Its a question

[Charlie 3931fb]

Hi all,

My wife and I are at another camping park this weekend and we have a question for all you Montana owner's that have has your trailer's for at lease 2 years or better. This by no mean's cut's anybody from replying to this thread.

The back round for this question is we ran into a very sweet older couple here at the park with another brand trailer. They told Sofia and I that they paid over $110,000 for there unit. It looked like a million dollar coach from the outside because it was full body painted. They have had this unit for I believe they said 3 years. In the past time that they have had this unit, everything on it had to be replaced. The air conditioner's 2 out of the 3 went bad. All the tanks broke open and leaked. The generator blew up. The electrical went bad. They also had problems with the the axle's, brakes and the list just went on.

Here is my question. Has anyone every had a Montana that went into full failure of the trailer? I hope this has not happen to anyone here, but as you know, RV's are built by hand and not by robots like cars are built. We are hoping to get 10 years or better out of this coach (our 3931FB). If anyone would share there experience's I would like to know 2 thing's.

1 Did the dealership were you got the trailer help in anyway?

2 Did the factory stand by your unit?

Thanks for your help folk's

[Mikendebbie]

Charlie - we have had our unit for 30 months. We have put about 15k miles on it. We are not full timers but we have lived in it for weeks to 3 months at a time when I was doing some temporary duty for my job.

The most serious issue we had was fixed when I installed an 80 amp circuit breaker on the hydraulic slide out circuit. Every other issue I have had has been minor and I fixed it myself. Reading this forum has been a big help. The only thing better would be if I was camped in a park between Carl and Rohrmann so that any issue that came up could be resolved in person rather than thru the forum!

I have read lots of threads here from folks that have had bigger problems - but that has not been my experience so far.

[dfb]

Factory after one year says toobad, so sad..they really dont care..
Worst company i have ever dealt with..

[BB_TX]

There have been many who posted about issues/failures with their Montanas. But I don’t think anyone has had that many major problems.

Wish the newer ones were as troublefree as my 2007. Only failures of any consequence have been convection/microwave and dvd/sound system.

[DQDick]

10 years full timing. We had a 2010 we traded for our current rig in 2017 because we liked the floor plan better. Had some minor issues with each, but Keystone went above and beyond which is why we bought the 2017 with no concern. Between the two we've towed about 90,000 miles so far.

[Dave W]

Without actually knowing these individuals and how they have cared (or not) for this 5er, it's impossible to determine what happened to their unit. What I'm saying is that low voltage or a high spike colud have caused a/c units and other appliancesto fail. With 3, most CGs just do not provide enough amps. Axle probless - a huge pothole possibly. Gen-set, low oil. Nrakes - Dexter has had a problem assembling them right.



Also - all appliances are the luck of the draw. RV manufacturers buy them in truckload lots and sometimes one (some?) of them is bad. Even the frames and axles are mostly contracted out with LCI being the usuaql provider.


Then there is that case where if it could go wrong, it will with a trailer/truck/car getting ALL of those bad products. A dealer, if reliable will often help but only to a point after the warrnty period is over

[DutchmenSport]

We purchased our MHC 375FL in September 2018. It seems the first year was spent rebuilding the camper as things just fell apart or didn't work right, things the PDI did not catch. After about 12 months, these bugs and fixes were taken care of, mostly by me, as I'm a lifelong non-professional fix-em up person. Been doing home repairs and remodels all my life, but never paid for it.

Anyway, some items I was able to get fixed under warranty, those items I simply could not do myself because of lack of space to work, lack of tools, lack of time, or lack of experience or knowledge, then I took it back for warranty. But getting appointments for warranty and the wait time for repairs was horrible. So after a couple trips back to the shop, all the headache, I REALLY just started fixing things myself.

Fortunately, no appliances or systems have failed or needed replacing, except for a destroyed wheel hub and brakes. No problems at all with the appliances, plumbing, electrical, 6 point leveling jacks (except once one got out of stroke and i did get help from my dealer service center). I maintain photos and records of everything done on the camper. Here is a list of the actual FAILURES and repairs, not the additional changes for comfort or style.

Fixed - Calked the fenders.
Fixed - Every screw on the fenders needed replaced, tightened, or secured tighter in some way or another. They are broken out.
Fixed - Shower door handle fell apart
Fixed - Added - partition under kitchen sink so items won't fall off shelf behind door
Fixed - Added support under bedroom door when door is open so the weight of the door would not pull the frame off the wall when traveling.
Fixed - Eventually, warranty replaced the bedroom door, and it fell apart again.
Fixed - After closet trim fell, rebuilt and supported the trim and put supports under the shelf
Fixed broken cable on bedroom slide under warranty
Fixed - hot water in shower by flipping the water lines so hot is HOT.
Fixed - Lost one nut on bolt on spare tire under floor
Fixed - New Tires after blow out in April 2019
Fixed - Placed metal strips on passenger side bed room skirting to keep wind from making it pop and flop.
Fixed - Quick Connect gas valve was twisted upward. Valve broke when attempting to position it so it could be used, and had to replaced it with a new one
Fixed - Reinforced the bedroom back closet (again) with solid wood this time. Literally, rebuilt the closet shelf and cloths bar so it wouldn't fall any more.
Fixed - Front door was fixed, adjusted, but eventually replaced completely ... Warranty.
Fixed - Replaced trailer pig-tail 7 pin wire and plug ... Warranty.
Fixed - side wall (facing the rear of the trailer) separated. I screwed it back together.
Fixed 2 cabinet doors after they popped open and bent the hinges, replaced almost all the cabinet door catches and installed baby locks on each one to keep them from popping open when traveling.
Fixed bedroom door myself after the second failure and break away from the wall. It's not separated from the wall since.
Fixed pivot door in bathroom ... warranty.
Fixed the glass door for the stereo in the living room that kept falling open
Fixed by making anchors for the 2 recliners in the living room so they won't tip. Original screws pulled out of the floor. I drilled holes completely through the floor and put bots through their frames and then bolted them down under the floor. They will never pull up again. Sorry Keystone, two little Robertson head wood screws in a 1/4 inch of Luna plywood will not hold two recliners down.
Fixed re-affixed the underbelly skirting on the front passenger side of the camper with big washers after the wrap around skirting pulled and broke out under the trailer.
Fixed by re-affixed the underbelly skirting on the driver side rear of camper with big washers.
Fixed by replaced Blind on passenger side living room slide out, forward window ... warranty. Eventually, I had to fix every blink in the camper because the pull part on the blind came off. Clear silicon putty sealer, used like glue did the job.
Fixed by replaced the mirror on the front cap. Yea, it was replaced less than 3 months after purchasing the camper. The original just clouded over and became unusalble.
Fixed by replacing - New front door, Got tired of pissing around with repairs to the front door and insisted on a new one. Warranty finally agreed to replace it.
Fixed by replacing Wingard Razyor television antenna under warranty
Fixed fender and metal bent after tire blow out
All new tires because of the blow out in March 2019.
Fixed Hinges on the glass door cover over the radio
Fixed leak on city water inlet, garden hose connection
Fixed Rear axle, replaced brakes and hub, both sides ... warranty
Fixed replaced Sail Switch in furnace - 10-26-2019
Fixed the metal clamp that holds the black gas pipe in place on the passenger side of the front storage area and fixed the pipe so there is no movement in it. Photo July 5, 2019
Wall under the bed (that storage area), separated and I re-inforced it screwed it back together. Sorry Keystone, your cheap ass staples just don't hold up, no matter how many or massive amounts of staples you used! Stupidist thing I've seen in a long time... Dumb idiots!


But now, we've had almost a second year with absolute no issues! Nothing else has fallen apart or broken since last fall... Except, I did flip on the electric water heater sometime last Winter with no water in it and discovered this Spring it was burned out and I replaced the heating element. That has been the only "oops" since last Fall.

[1retired06]

No significant issues with our first three Montana units. Current Montana has been the worst in terms of general craftsmanship. Except for frig failure/AC failure, everything has been minor and fixed under warranty or by myself. We use the rig 7-8 months out of the year to include six months in Florida each winter, and it, like our other units, is reliable and has been trouble free after the new unit glitches were worked through.

[Charlie 3931fb]

Originally Posted by DutchmenSport

Fixed - Calked the fenders.
Fixed - Every screw on the fenders needed replaced, tightened, or secured tighter in some way or another. They are broken out.
Fixed - Shower door handle fell apart
Fixed - Added - partition under kitchen sink so items won't fall off shelf behind door
Fixed - Added support under bedroom door when door is open so the weight of the door would not pull the frame off the wall when traveling.
Fixed - Eventually, warranty replaced the bedroom door, and it fell apart again.
Fixed - After closet trim fell, rebuilt and supported the trim and put supports under the shelf
Fixed broken cable on bedroom slide under warranty
Fixed - hot water in shower by flipping the water lines so hot is HOT.
Fixed - Lost one nut on bolt on spare tire under floor
Fixed - New Tires after blow out in April 2019
Fixed - Placed metal strips on passenger side bed room skirting to keep wind from making it pop and flop.
Fixed - Quick Connect gas valve was twisted upward. Valve broke when attempting to position it so it could be used, and had to replaced it with a new one
Fixed - Reinforced the bedroom back closet (again) with solid wood this time. Literally, rebuilt the closet shelf and cloths bar so it wouldn't fall any more.
Fixed - Front door was fixed, adjusted, but eventually replaced completely ... Warranty.
Fixed - Replaced trailer pig-tail 7 pin wire and plug ... Warranty.
Fixed - side wall (facing the rear of the trailer) separated. I screwed it back together.
Fixed 2 cabinet doors after they popped open and bent the hinges, replaced almost all the cabinet door catches and installed baby locks on each one to keep them from popping open when traveling.
Fixed bedroom door myself after the second failure and break away from the wall. It's not separated from the wall since.
Fixed pivot door in bathroom ... warranty.
Fixed the glass door for the stereo in the living room that kept falling open
Fixed by making anchors for the 2 recliners in the living room so they won't tip. Original screws pulled out of the floor. I drilled holes completely through the floor and put bots through their frames and then bolted them down under the floor. They will never pull up again. Sorry Keystone, two little Robertson head wood screws in a 1/4 inch of Luna plywood will not hold two recliners down.
Fixed re-affixed the underbelly skirting on the front passenger side of the camper with big washers after the wrap around skirting pulled and broke out under the trailer.
Fixed by re-affixed the underbelly skirting on the driver side rear of camper with big washers.
Fixed by replaced Blind on passenger side living room slide out, forward window ... warranty. Eventually, I had to fix every blink in the camper because the pull part on the blind came off. Clear silicon putty sealer, used like glue did the job.
Fixed by replaced the mirror on the front cap. Yea, it was replaced less than 3 months after purchasing the camper. The original just clouded over and became unusalble.
Fixed by replacing - New front door, Got tired of pissing around with repairs to the front door and insisted on a new one. Warranty finally agreed to replace it.
Fixed by replacing Wingard Razyor television antenna under warranty
Fixed fender and metal bent after tire blow out
All new tires because of the blow out in March 2019.
Fixed Hinges on the glass door cover over the radio
Fixed leak on city water inlet, garden hose connection
Fixed Rear axle, replaced brakes and hub, both sides ... warranty
Fixed replaced Sail Switch in furnace - 10-26-2019
Fixed the metal clamp that holds the black gas pipe in place on the passenger side of the front storage area and fixed the pipe so there is no movement in it. Photo July 5, 2019
Wall under the bed (that storage area), separated and I re-inforced it screwed it back together. Sorry Keystone, your cheap ass staples just don't hold up, no matter how many or massive amounts of staples you used! Stupidist thing I've seen in a long time... Dumb idiots!


But now, we've had almost a second year with absolute no issues! Nothing else has fallen apart or broken since last fall... Except, I did flip on the electric water heater sometime last Winter with no water in it and discovered this Spring it was burned out and I replaced the heating element. That has been the only "oops" since last Fall.

I would hope that with all of this work you did that your not having anymore problems. Let me ask you, Did you try to take this back either to you dealer or back to the factory?

This is what I am getting worried about. On July 8th we no longer have a home. We will be full timing from that date on. I did keep my toy hauler just in case we have to send this unit back to the factory. I am worried that we will be without a home being our trailer. We have had great luck with most of the keystone trailer that we have owned over the last 15 years. The toy hauler being the bottom line of keystone has been the only problem child that we have owned.

That you for your come back and information for this thread.....

[Charlie 3931fb]

Originally Posted by Dave W

Without actually knowing these individuals and how they have cared (or not) for this 5er, it's impossible to determine what happened to their unit. What I'm saying is that low voltage or a high spike colud have caused a/c units and other appliancesto fail. With 3, most CGs just do not provide enough amps. Axle probless - a huge pothole possibly. Gen-set, low oil. Nrakes - Dexter has had a problem assembling them right.



Also - all appliances are the luck of the draw. RV manufacturers buy them in truckload lots and sometimes one (some?) of them is bad. Even the frames and axles are mostly contracted out with LCI being the usuaql provider.


Then there is that case where if it could go wrong, it will with a trailer/truck/car getting ALL of those bad products. A dealer, if reliable will often help but only to a point after the warrnty period is over

The way these folk's were talking, It didn't seem to me that they were the cause of all there problems. One thing I did forget to mention was that they did not get any respect from either the dealer or the factory until they went to court. Which by the way is still going on with them. THere dealer went out of business this year because on Covid-19 they said. The factory had play games with them since day one. NOW this is what they are telling us. Have no pony in this ride with them so I am going to say that they are telling us the truth.

[jeffba]

$110K!! Me thinks they either paid too much or are just saying what MSRP is. In any case, anything said after that needs to be taken with a grain of salt. just try

Just about every item on the List is a vendor supplied part. Some as mentioned could have been the result of not using an EMS or failed as a result when the Generator went out.

many of the bad experiences with the factory start out with a bad dealer.

My dealings with the factory have been good. I do approach them being polite.
You do have to follow up with them and stay on top of things.

I work in Support and make sure all of my cases I am not the one with the next step in the action plan.

[Charlie 3931fb]

Originally Posted by jeffba

$110K!! Me thinks they either paid too much or are just saying what MSRP is. In any case, anything said after that needs to be taken with a grain of salt. just try

We looked into there model and we were quoted $112,000 off the lot. I do not want to mention there name here. I was really taken back by what they told us. The MSRP on there trailer is around $145,000.

[BB_TX]

Goes to show the old saying “you get what you pay for” doesn’t always hold true. Have to look deeper than just the price.

Mobile Suites is often touted as being a high end quality rig. But there have been posts on other RV sites about owner’s problems with them.

[Charlie 3931fb]

Originally Posted by BB_TX

Goes to show the old saying “you get what you pay for” doesn’t always hold true. Have to look deeper than just the price.

Mobile Suites is often touted as being a high end quality rig. But there have been posts on other RV sites about owner’s problems with them.

Yep...And I guess what ever you buy is going to have a problem or 2.....

[DutchmenSport]

Originally Posted by Charlie 3931fb

I would hope that with all of this work you did that your not having anymore problems. Let me ask you, Did you try to take this back either to you dealer or back to the factory?

...

There was a point in time I wanted to set fire to the thing! But I am also pretty mechanical and skilled in carpentry and found it much easier to fix these things myself than jack around with the dealer, warranty, or the factory. Fortunate, not eveything happened at once

The real problems were the entry door replacement, bathroom pivot door replacement, bedroom door replacement, and the blown brakes that destroyed the wheel hub. The springs in the brakes broke, and all that wire scraping everything, absolutely destroyed the wheel hub.

I've always advised anyone who has their heart set on full timing to purchase their camper a year ahead and use it extensively with the availability to return home to regroup and perform repairs. Because, it will take a year to flush out repairs, fix failures, and made changes that will improve the natural flow of the camper.

I have a list, probably as long as the "fixed" list that lists all the changes I made just to make the natural flow and rhythm of the camper more sensible, like moving light switches, adding hooks, and ways to improve existing storage spaces. Nothing happened just over-night. Some changes took a few months to figure out. That's why you really should use your camper a year before full timing. It's easier to do so at home than on the road.

[footz1941]

2 1/2 years full time Biggest problem was the hanger bar and shelf in bed room closet collapsed. Sliding door to closet had the screws in the hanger pull out ( 2 - 1 1/2 “screws holding it replaced w/ 3” deck screws , kitchen faucet dripped around handle replaced part under warranty I did installation., Samsung refrigerator door adjustment ,warranty thermocouple on oven went bad. Recall on furnace (fiberglass heat shield) warranty . Furnace circuit board warranty, mobile service. It is easier for me to do minor repairs than to take it to dealer for service.

[speedster100]

Had our 2015 Montana 3790RD for almost 5yrs, fixed lots of small things as you do with any brand at any price point. Never had any appliances fail, never had any air conditioners fail, all repairs where coach repairs. Spring shackles, trim, door hinges, skirting falling off, wall coming loose due to broken screws etc... One Tank leaked constantly when it was filled above half, after the dealer messing with it twice and telling us there were no leaks, I found that the factory hadn't properly welded the vent pipe to the grey tank properly, fixed it no issues afterward. The repairs for all kinds of small things became less & less as it got older as I fixed things right myself. I will say there were essentially no issues the last year or so, we put a few thousand miles on it each year so it got its share of road fatigue. I just traded it on a smaller unit and will now start over again.... Welcome to RVing.

[Montana Man]

Originally Posted by speedster100

Had our 2015 Montana 3790RD for almost 5yrs, fixed lots of small things as you do with any brand at any price point. Never had any appliances fail, never had any air conditioners fail, all repairs where coach repairs. Spring shackles, trim, door hinges, skirting falling off, wall coming loose due to broken screws etc... One Tank leaked constantly when it was filled above half, after the dealer messing with it twice and telling us there were no leaks, I found that the factory hadn't properly welded the vent pipe to the grey tank properly, fixed it no issues afterward. The repairs for all kinds of small things became less & less as it got older as I fixed things right myself. I will say there were essentially no issues the last year or so, we put a few thousand miles on it each year so it got its share of road fatigue. I just traded it on a smaller unit and will now start over again.... Welcome to RVing.

So in other words, components that Keystone bought and installed generally worked fine. The things Keystone manufactured required rework. That has been our experience.

[GreG L.]

Sounds like allot of money and allot of issues, did they see them coming?


We bought a 2020 3561 (all options except paint) early last year and have 15,000 miles on it. Our issues were cable connector broke on the TV (4K TV upgrade opportunity), roller replacement on the closet door, couldn't light the oven until I red the book.

I did give my dealer a 3 page list of things (I got from this forum) I would be checking when I picked it up (4 hour walk through, they left us alone), they were all good except when they washed it just before we arrived water seeped into the level controls and they had to dry and seal it. By the way I took a creeper and a electric screw driver with me with me. I don't think they were impressed when I tool apart the storage area.

Other than that it has been a (knock on wood) great experience, the only thing I would do differently is get the paint.

[jimandlaurie]

it seems that this is another example that no matter the brand or cost , there is always something not perfect about any RV's. This goes even for Yachts, even in the millions of $. In regards to full timing , even in a SB house there are always things to maintain and fix, And endless yardwork.