clearance between bed and trailer - Montana Owners Club

jksimons · 09-09-2009, 12:17 PM

Hi All! My husband and I just bought an 06 3400rl. We have a ford F350 dually 4x to haul with. The axels on the trailer are already flipped and we plan to convert the fifth wheel hitch to goose neck so my truck does not have more then one hitch in the bed. My question is, what is the correct amount of clearance between the top rail of the truck bed and the bottom of the trailer over the bed? Also, if we need to add more clearance what is the recommended ideas for this situation? With our previous fiver, they flipped the axels and we had no issues, parking the truck beneath the trailer now looks like a tight fit..

Thanks
Kim

Mrs. CountryGuy · 09-09-2009, 12:35 PM

Kim

Welcome to the forum!!!

Congrats on your new 3400, that is one fine floor plan, one of the most popular!

The guys will be along shortly to tell you that gooseneck hitches/pins are sorely frowned upon. Way toooo many stresses on the 5er.

There is also a really special hitch for those who need both a gooseneck and a Montana pin. Sorry the name escapes me at the moment, the fellas will know.

Enjoy that rig and again, welcome to the MOC!!

Art-n-Marge · 09-09-2009, 12:46 PM

Ohmigosh! What a coincidence! Welcome to the MOC.

I was just talking to a friend yesterday who just ordered an SOB and has the SAME truck (2007) and is concerned about this very thing! He told me that the requirement is a minimum of 6". But I think the larger the gap the sharper the rise you can go over (curbs, campgrounds, small hills, etc.)

However, the hard part is what if you don't have that distance? I told him I was going to post a question about recommendations on what to do with his 5er and lo and behold, here it is? He was asking me for suggestions on modifying the trailer and NOT the truck. I tend to agree with him that you don't want to mess with the truck.

Now we can both wait for recommendations on what to do about the trailer.

I have read elsewhere on the internet that longer shackles are a way to increase the height of the trailer but I don't know what this means for the rig, the ride of the RV and stuff like that. Hopefully we can get some success stories from other members. I think that if you make this a requirement of the sale, the dealer can probably recommend something suitable.

As for converting to a goose neck, I don't think that is recommended for Montys or most 5ers because of the stress at the pin. You should check on that. There are several hitch makers who provide underbed rails to maintain a flat bed when it's removed but still provide support for a goosenecks.

ON EDIT: Oh-Oh, Mrs CountryGuy put a little pressure on this "guy". B&W is a popular and capable brand of underbed hitch that supports Fifth wheel RVs and Goosenecks. Another brand is Reese Signature, but there are many others.

Good luck on your quest. I shall be watching this topic closely.

8.1al · 09-09-2009, 01:49 PM

I wouldn't want any less than 6" clearance. We have 8-9 on ours and have had a few times that we needed all of that. If you don't need to raise the trailer too much you can install blocks between the axles and springs. If you have shocks you will need shock extensions or longer shocks. As for the gooseneck conversion I the fifth wheel framework is not designed to handle the force it will see with a gooseneck. That long arm from the trailer down to the ball has a lot of leverage. Take a look at a trailer built for a gooseneck, see all those braces on the gooseneck going up to the framework? It's not there on your fifth wheel

TLightning · 09-09-2009, 01:50 PM

I'd talk to Keystone and Lippert before putting a goose neck on a Montana...it is strongly discouraged.

jksimons · 09-09-2009, 03:08 PM

Thanks everyone for the welcome! I will say this is discouraging news about not doing the conversion, the truck we haul with is my main hauling truck, I haul a 30' Trails West LQ horse trailer, so that is why the truck is already set up with the gooseneck. We were hoping to not add anything extra to the bed, but I did get my way about getting a fiver over a motorhome! Any more comments or suggestions are appreciated. Right now just parking the truck under the trailer we really only have 5" of clearance. We use to have a fiver tb and a F250 4x, so I'm kinda confused about the height difference even with the axels flipped, so please anyone that can tell us the right direction to raise the trailer is appreciated! We are looking forward to getting out there...once these hurdles are crossed anyway!

**Rondo** · 09-09-2009, 04:37 PM

Kim-- Welcome to the Forum. My suggestion would be to go to the top of the page here and click on Search. When the form comes up key in gooseneck hitch and then go down and put a check in the archive posts. You will come up with quite a few threads on this subject. Also, you might consider going with a new bed hitch that you can convert from a gooseneck and adds on a cradle hitch (not exact name but can't think of the correct name at this time)when you need to use the pin like on the Monte. I've seen them and was tempted to get one myself since we have farm property and my brother has nothing but gooseneck trailers but have settled for the straight bed hitch as of now. (Heck I can always barrow my brothers truck if need be!

) Anyway, check out the search threads and, as mentioned above, give Keystone and Lippert a call and ask for their advice. From what I understand, the conversion kits to a gooseneck are quite weak and put a tremendous amount of strain on the frame of the fiver. Keep us informed on what you find out and good luck on your decision.

noneck · 09-09-2009, 04:55 PM

Right...there are standard 5th wheel assemblies that utilize the gooseneck ball and will not be an issue with Keystone nor Lippert. Just makes for more stuff to have to put in and take-out of truck bed but complies with your requirement to not have any permanent extra's.

dieselguy · 09-10-2009, 02:26 AM

The hitch that may satisfy your needs is the B&W Companion http://www.turnoverball.com/rv.asp#. It's frame is mounted below the bed itself with a hitch ball that can be changed over to accept a fifthwheel hitch. I don't have an answer to your clearance issue ... just a comment. I just don't understand why all the late model pickups especially the 4X4's have such a high bed height. Some you could actually place another tire between the existing tire and the inside of the fenderwell. I can't envision ever needing that much suspension travel on an over the road vehicle. Turning the axles over raises the center of gravity on your unit ... using spacers further raises the C/G. Although about the only answer, this makes for a more top heavy condition ... not good.

BB_TX · 09-10-2009, 03:22 AM

Kim - I am also of the opinion that the gooseneck adapter puts a lot of different stresses on the 5er frame it is not designed for. BUT. There are a lot of people who use them. And I have never seen anyone post here or elsewhere that they had a frame failure while using a gooseneck. Not a suggestion by any means. Just a comment.

As for the F350 height. I have an F350, but it is SRW, not dually. Mine had 4" blocks on the rear axles and the rear was very high. In fact, Ford has had some technical service bulletins going back as far as 1999 about "some" F350 trucks being too high for 5ers. I had the 4" blocks replaced with 2" blocks and made the truck sit level with good clearance for the Monty. I thought the dually came with 2" blocks to start with, but you might check yours to see.

Phyllen · 09-10-2009, 03:54 AM

We used a gooseneck for two years pulling our 2002 Cedar Creek. At that time we had horses. Since selling the horses, we converted to a fifthwheel hitch. The gooseneck gave us no problems, however, there was definitely more sway. We just feel more secure now.

Phyllis

Delaine and Lindy · 09-10-2009, 03:57 AM

We have always had 6" or more and believe 6" is the standard. Thats why I Love the hauler bed, never ever will have a clearance problem.

As for the Gooseneck adapter, I know most manufactors don't allow them. However in the last year I have seen many Adapters being used. Seen one last week in Clarksville Tennessee, on a Mobile Suites which all know they are very heavy. Before I tried that I would want to talk to a frame engineer about the stress on the front of the 5th wheel. I have a Gooseneck Trailer that I haul heavy equipment on and it does hav more metal up front. GBY....

RRman · 09-10-2009, 09:55 AM

My 14" StarPerformance Gooseneck adapter provides the commonly recommended 6" of clearance over the bed rails on my Dually SWD 2005 Ram 3500.
I too wanted to just use the turnover ball that came with the used truck.
Features of the StarPerformance Gooseneck Adapter besides its cushioning glider motion, include:
* 30,000 GVW; 7,500 lb pin weight
* Standard Size: 14 inch
* Standard hitch is offset for additonal towing clearance
I have had no problems so far towing a 13K lbs Montana over 3000 miles,including a pushing/backing out of a stuck position in soft ground. I did add the provided supplemental "restraining" bolts as my severe 90' storage parking maneuvers would sometimes rotate the adapter on the kingpin. Also, it cost less than an equivalent quality/capacity Fifth Wheel Hitch and there was no installation expense (however installing the Gooseneck Adapter is a two person job due to weight and positioning - at least for me).
Regarding stress, one of the many inconclusive arguments is the bending moment is actually from the truck axle regardless of what's in between...and of course frame failures are very uncommon and at least as often reported with normal Fifth Wheel Hitches. No one seems to know how much extra, if any, stress the Gooseneck adapters actually generate, and based on popularity (including a Trailer Life Magazine feature on them this year), it presumably is within the normal stress tolerances of a normally welded trailer frame...?
Also, besides keeping my bed free, I don't think I could ever drop the trailer on the rails. Its either on the ball or not. It does take me a little longer to hookup versus a Fifth Wheel as the trailer has to be raised above the height of the unloaded ball in the truck, the truck positioned well, and then the trailer lowered onto the ball.
If interested, check out www.sphitch.com
Good Luck!

kerry · 09-10-2009, 02:28 PM

Lippert will void frame warranty if a gooseneck adapter is used - Kerry

farmboy · 09-10-2009, 02:29 PM

If you have a turnover brand hitch they make a fifth wheel adapater called companion. It goes in bed of your truck in two parts that are suposebly easy to remove and install. Might check it out.

jksimons · 09-10-2009, 03:52 PM

farmboy...I was thinking the same thing and finally took the truck down to a local truck accessory installer and low and behold, the companion. Personally, I think that is the right choice for us. We even went as far as discussing pulling the goose neck out, installinf the fiver hitch, and then buying the adapter plate for when I haul my horse trailer. This option with the companion seems like the best fit. Still going to have to do something to raise the trailer a small amount to end up with adequate clearance, so anyone have anything to add onto that topic? Thanks again..Kim

Mudchief · 09-11-2009, 03:33 AM

jksimons, I was going to do that but would have to shorten the goose neck. The problem there was if someone else needed to pull my trailer the trailer would be to close to the bed rails. Just put the companion hitch in and remove it when you pull your horse trailer. That way you can pull another persons horse trailer if you need to.

sreigle · 09-11-2009, 04:29 AM

Kim, what year is your F350? Some of the early 4x4 superdutys, model years 1999 - ???? had a 4-inch block above the axle that caused clearance problems like you have. At that time, because of all the complaints, Ford would swap those blocks for 2-inchers at no charge. If you can check yours and you see 4-inch blocks you might check with Ford about swapping them for the smaller ones. I understand bringing the rear of the truck down that two inches can make a big difference on the clearance. As a point of reference, my 2003 and 2005 Fords had a bit over 7 inches clearance, as does this Dodge. Those Fords were 4x4 but had the shorter block, from the factory.

jksimons · 09-11-2009, 05:44 AM

I told that option to my husband, and he was not at all comfortable changing the blocks out on the truck. My gooseneck horse trailer is alot of wieght, enough that we need to be adding airbags. The truck is a 2006. This is getting kinda frustrating. Hubby is considering trading his truck in for a different one, but with Arnolds increase in DMV fees and taxes..need I say more. We just want to get on the road and enjoy the trailer!

ols1932 · 09-11-2009, 06:33 AM

It's been my experience that a minimum of 6" is best. If you can get more distance and still have everything riding level, go for it. I think this would apply for any kind of hitch.

Orv

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