Wheel balancers? - Montana Owners Club

garyka · 10-16-2008, 02:08 AM

I just read on one of the post about wheel balancers,and was wondering how many of MOC members are using these and are they effective.I also read that most the tires aren't even balanced.Could I get some feedback on this.

LonnieB · 10-16-2008, 02:44 AM

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quote:I just read on one of the post about wheel balancers,and was wondering how many of MOC members are using these and are they effective.

I don't use them, but I sell and install them, mostly on big trucks. Yes, they are very effective, but they are also very expensive. I've never sold any for a trailer or light truck, so I don't know for sure what you should expect to pay. Probably around 150.00 per pair for the Centramatic brand in the size you would need. For the big trucks,they are around 220.00 per pair. You can go to www.centramatic.com for more info.

Quote:

quote:I also read that most the tires aren't even balanced.Could I get some feedback on this.

That is correct. Most trailer mfgrs. do not balance the wheels at the factory.

ole dude · 10-16-2008, 02:52 AM

I have had my trailer wheels balanced, when I purchased the trailer there were no weights on any of the wheels, which led me to believe they were not balanced at the factory or at the dealers. When I had Lonnie B replace the tires, they also balanced the wheels. I believe it is a good idea. Dont know about wheel balancers on the trailer. I did, however, put Centramatic wheel balancers on the front wheels of my Freightliner pick up,

. The wheels are 22.5 inches, and this did in fact smooth things out pretty good.

hazmic · 10-16-2008, 08:17 AM

The tires are NOT balanced from the factory. If you balance the tires,you need a hub that bolts to the rim as the big hole in the center is hot necessary in the center. You have to bolt them and then balance them. I have put in a powder that you can have installed in the tires and it balances as you go down the road. I would said that you can get this done at a tire dealer. They have to install different valve cores and if you do not have metal valve stems this is the time to do it.

Glenn and Lorraine · 10-17-2008, 08:44 AM

Guess I'm just too old fashioned. Put the tire and wheel assembly on a computerized wheel balancer, give the assembly a good spin, apply weights inside and out as shown on the balancer, give it a second spin to verify, place on vehicle. In all my years this has worked the best for me and all our many customers. The cost is negligible. Tire wear is great. The ride is comfortable.

skypilot · 10-17-2008, 11:37 AM

Glenn - I just had to have 4 of 6 tires replaced on my brand new Dodge -- dealer balanced, took 8 to 10 oz weight; they took to local tire dealer who did the balancing where they put the tire under a load, said 4 of the 6 were 80 or more out of round. General replaced the 4 -- and now 2 of the 4 new ones are 65 and 70 respectively -- was told had to be 30 or less to be in tolerance. Regardless, the reason for this post is just to say I almost have to wonder if the use of these newer 'centramatic' balancers isn't to solve the lack of quality in the tires and wheels we are now getting. Years ago I remember 'truing' tires every once in a long while... that took a lot of miles off some of those tires I'd imagine -- oh well, I digress.

Bottom line -- I also like to see those 0.00 numbers on that machine!!

LonnieB · 10-17-2008, 12:22 PM

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quote:4 of the 6 were 80 or more out of round.

You said the key word skypilot

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quote:General

Glenn and Lorraine · 10-17-2008, 11:13 PM

Not all tires nor all wheels are perfectly round and, if not to radical, there is a way to counter this situation.
First using the lug holes spin the wheel and tire assembly on the balancer. Find the high point of the wheel and mark it. Find the high point on the tire and mark it. If the 2 high points coincide with each other, break the tire away from the wheel and rotate the tire only 180°. Re-inflate and spin again. You may found most of the out-of-round has disappeared and the assembly will now take less wheel weights to balance.
Doesn't work every time but it works enough times.
Years ago tires and wheels, especially the custom wheels, were not made to today's standards.
Back in the 50s and early 60s most all tires were nylon thread. Did you ever get in your car early on a winters morn and head for work? Remember the first 5 miles was like driving on a wash board? Once the nylon warmed up and the Flat Spot disappeared you once again had a smoother ride. With the polyesters and steel used in today's tires "flat spotting" is pretty much a thing of the past.

With the auto manufacturers all pushing for a smoother more comfortable ride the first thing looked at is the tire/wheel assembly. A new car, right off the lot, never has an OOR situation as these tire/wheel assemblies are checked and correct prior to putting on the auto.
As aftermarket tire dealers we must now be somewhat conscience of this OOR problem and as tire dealers we soon learned how to correct some of this OOR crap on our own. The tire and wheel mfgs were not accepting that their stuff was OOR and therefore they wouldn't stand behind us.

skypilot · 10-18-2008, 07:47 PM

Glenn - that is what we did to the one new one to get it 'usable'. The original 4 that General replaced couldn't be rotated and balanced -- the term I was trying to remember yesterday was 'Road Force' balance. In any case, one was so OOR (ahh - memories ---OOR! -- used to be the Army Recruiter MOS designation!! (digressing again

)... as I was saying , one was so OOR that you could actually see the tire 'bounce' on the balancer as they demonstrated it to me at low speed -- moved the friction device up and down quite a bit. Oh well, General stood behind them and worked with me -- - Chrysler Corporate Warranty Ctr(Star) wanted the dealership to send the tires to some corporate office (one tire at a time) to be evaluated and then replaced, or to put the truck on stands and send all 6 in at once. 2 to 3 weeks turn-around expected per tire (same for the entire group). I called General Customer Service direct and, Bless them, General sent the tires 2nd day... Can't argue with that service!!

sreigle · 10-25-2008, 08:02 AM

The biggest mistake made when using automotive type spin balancers is to center the rim using the hole in the middle of the rim. This works for car rims but not for trailer rims. Trailer rims are not centered on the trailer hubs by that hole. Car rims are but not trailer rims. When you use the standard method of automotive tire balancing, more often than not the tire and rim will appear to be out of round and way, way out of balance. The proper method is to use an adapter that is "lug-centric." It centers the rim on the balancer by centering using the lug holes, not the center hole.

The sad thing is that when using the automotive method, some techs will apply lots and lots of weight until the rim and tire appear to be balanced, per his machine. But when this rim/tire are mounted to the trailer hub, it's now way out of balance. Probably worse than if left alone in the first place. So, always make sure a lug centric adapter is being used during balancing. If the shop doesn't know what you're talking about, walk out the door and find another shop. Last Spring I had some tires balanced at an Expert Tire. They had the lug centric adapter and knew exactly what I was saying.

Sky Pilot, I had that same problem... tires and rim that could not be balanced. When I found out about the lug centric requirement, that solved the problem.

skypilot · 10-27-2008, 06:51 AM

Steve - these are on my new 08 Dodge 3500 (now have just over 7500 miles on it

-- 4 of the 6 original tires were really bad; one of the new four replacements is also bad but I'm still running it now. Trailer tires were balanced lug-centric when I had them done.

Lonnie: Yeap - I know. However, that is what came on the new truck and I'm going to run them as long as I can stand them. Had Goodyears on the last Dodge, rode well but they were wearing fast it seemed. Since my past history is with Fords I'm not sure if the suspension / design difference had an impact or just flakier materials in the newer Goodyear tires. Regardless, Generals for now. Thanks.

This issue of whether or not to balance the trailer tires comes up about once a year it seems -- I was visiting a local trailer dealership (not RV) a few months ago -- helping a neighbor pick up a gooseneck car hauler. I asked if the tires were balanced and the sales droid said No, absolutely not. I asked why so emphatic and he said that balancing trailer tires was a waste of their money and he didn't recommend it to anyone. I then asked him if he balanced his car tire (of course he did) so I asked him what made the trailer tires any less important -- didn't the stuff riding on them bounce and shimmy and shake just as bad as his car would. He turned around with out answering me. My neighbor went to his boss and demanded that they pay to have his tires balanced (which they did (I was surprised that they did)) but given what he has purchased there over the past year, they have made that up many times... In any case, Balancing the tires just helps the ride whether in your car or your trailer. In my own opinion, every little bit helps...

Sorry for the rant and being on my soap box (again) .....

up2nogood · 10-27-2008, 10:31 AM

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quote:Originally posted by sreigle

The biggest mistake made when using automotive type spin balancers is to center the rim using the hole in the middle of the rim. This works for car rims but not for trailer rims. Trailer rims are not centered on the trailer hubs by that hole. Car rims are but not trailer rims. When you use the standard method of automotive tire balancing, more often than not the tire and rim will appear to be out of round and way, way out of balance. The proper method is to use an adapter that is "lug-centric." It centers the rim on the balancer by centering using the lug holes, not the center hole.

The sad thing is that when using the automotive method, some techs will apply lots and lots of weight until the rim and tire appear to be balanced, per his machine. But when this rim/tire are mounted to the trailer hub, it's now way out of balance. Probably worse than if left alone in the first place. So, always make sure a lug centric adapter is being used during balancing. If the shop doesn't know what you're talking about, walk out the door and find another shop. Last Spring I had some tires balanced at an Expert Tire. They had the lug centric adapter and knew exactly what I was saying.

Sky Pilot, I had that same problem... tires and rim that could not be balanced. When I found out about the lug centric requirement, that solved the problem.

This is somewhat true, but most not all aftermarket truck and car wheels are lug centric, where as my stock truck wheels are hub centric, from what I have been told the biggest advantage to hub centric is the load carrying on the hub as well as the lug bolts, where as lug centric carry the load on the lugs, the reason is the hub hole in the wheel is bigger than the vehicle hub. You have to remember whether lug centric or hub centric the wheel still has to center on the bolt holes first, so I would think if it is hub centric it does not matter how you balance them the hub hole and lug holes are centered with each other on the rim. That may not be true with lug centric rims, but in my case my aftermarket wheels are lug centric wheels, if I wanted I could of installed a hub ring which would of made my wheels lug centric thus balancing either way would work. They were balanced being centered on the hub, which leads me to believe that it makes no difference between hub centric and lug centric truck wheels when it comes to balancing. Not to argue but in my case I have aluminum rims on my 5ver that are machined, which leads me to believe the same holds true for trailer wheels the hub hole is centered with the lug holes. I would think it would make no sense not to. Granted you are not riding on your hub you are riding on your lugs, but as far as balancing goes it would make no difference.

I talked to the tire shop that I use and yes they can and do have the lug adapters for balancing trailer wheels , but very seldom apply that method because of what I described above there is no need to. The hub hole will center the wheel with the lugs. Maybe some of the cheaper steel wheels that are welded this may apply.

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