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12-22-2007, 07:00 AM
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#41
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 854
M.O.C. #5592
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I have just completed checking the panel. All connections are tight. The slides are working and not blowing the 30 amp fuse on the 12v panel. I did charge the battery on a separate charger, it did not request much of a charge, but it may be enough if the battery is on the edge. So after Christmas, a call to IOTA and Team Montana to see if I can get anything out of either.
I think I have in my mind the schematic for the 12v power from the converter and the battery to the 12v fuse panel. If you all think it will help others I will get this drawn up and post.
So for now, I believe if the battery is beginning to wear down, quicker depletion of the amperage & drop in voltage, the "diode" as discussed in part of this thread detects the difference in the voltage and this is detected and the fuse blows? (How does that sound, experts?) All driven by the amperage request from the slide motor and the battery cannot provide so the converter adds amperage and overloads?
Here is a web site on batteries and the 12v system, it has helped me with the theory anyway. www.phrannie.org/battery.html
Again Merry Christmas and safe travels
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12-22-2007, 11:19 AM
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#42
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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On battery testing, I am not an expert on this, but these are my thoughts, I know you can throw a 50 amp charge on a starting battery to test if it is weak under load. I am assuming a comparable test can be made for load conditions on a Deep cycle battery such as we have; I would want a 3 times maximum full load test.
But to simplify this whole ordeal, I suggest buying and installing the two 6 volt 'golf cart' type batteries. (you were leaning towards) This will give you a fresh start on the battery end, and a larger available power draw.
The link didn't work for me, maybe it's my connection.
Good luck, Ozz
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12-22-2007, 11:49 AM
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#43
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Milwaukie
Posts: 388
M.O.C. #6266
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The link needs to be edited as should not be on there I believe.
Bob
Hey! I got my star!
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12-22-2007, 12:07 PM
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#44
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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12-22-2007, 02:04 PM
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#45
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Milwaukie
Posts: 388
M.O.C. #6266
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I didn't realize that was for the poop sheets. The man is a wealth of information on many subjects. And your welcome Ozz.
Bob
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12-22-2007, 03:20 PM
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#46
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Ozz
Crud, the first response timed out on the Forum.
As did my second try....
3rd, is the forum down????? This may take me an hour to post this....
Ok on edit, they all posted, but I waited until it timed out and there was no indication...oh well, I deleted the other two.
I'm done...
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Jim, if the timeout message you get looks like this....
Microsoft OLE DB Provider for SQL Server error '80040e31'
Timeout expired
/post_info.asp, line 1211
.... then what timed out is the page that tells you your post was successful. Since that comes AFTER the posting is done, then you're fine and your post took ok. To verify, you can do a BACK on your browser, then refresh the page. You should see your post there.
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12-23-2007, 02:00 AM
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#47
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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Thank you my friend, I have always wondered about that. I won't hyper-ventilate any more when that happens...
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12-23-2007, 02:24 AM
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#48
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,376
M.O.C. #6575
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Not to compound the situation, but I just can't see the reverse polarity protection circuit in the converter causing the fuse to blow (referring to the diode). The only way that diode would come into play is if there is truly a reverse polarity, or if that diode has failed. If the diode failed, there would be a constant short circuit or open circuit, and you would not have intermittent fuse failure.
If those two fuses are branch circuits, and not parallel, the battery may well be the culprit, merely from overload on the converter output. Viscosity of the hydraulic oil could also come into play with the different temperatures. I would be extremely interested in seeing a schematic of the 12 system. Never know when someone else will encounter this problem.
Merry Christmas
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01-03-2008, 01:19 PM
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#49
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 854
M.O.C. #5592
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Ok, here is what I have learned from IOTA. The 3400RL I have has a DLS55 converter. This converter puts out up to 55 amps through the two 30 amp fuses that are in parallel. When the 5r is plugged in to AC power, the converter supplies the 12v power/amps up to the 55 amps and then the battery supplies the additional if required. The major draws on the 12v system are the slides and the front legs. The two 30 amp fuses also protect the converter IF you happen to connect the battery or the converter reversed.
If the 'load' exceeds 30 amps the load is spread across both fuses, IF one of the fuses is blown, any load exceeding the 30 amps will blow the remaining fuse. So, MY LESSON LEARNED, TEST the fuse, do not look at the fuse for the open. Following this information I tested the fuses, (I kept the fuses that I had blown), and sure enough all of the fuses were bad, even the one fuse I thought was good in the left hand position. I changed th e fuse just because, even though it looked good. So, when putting the slide in & out, the current draw is greater than one 30 amp fuse can conduct. I have not gotten the info on the amperage draw of the slide motor. It is clear to me now that in cold (below 38 to 40 degrees), the amperage draw is greater due to the hydraulic fluid getting cold and harder to move the slides.
So, IF one of the 30 amp fuses on the 12v panel has blown, it is almost a sure bet the other fuse has blown earlier.
As my earlier post indicated, I was confused since following replacement of the fuses and charging of the battery, I no longer had a problem. What might have caused the left hand 30 amp fuse to blow I do not know, but at least I now know if my slides really slow down and the 12v lights are dim, check both of the 30 amp fuses.
Hopefully this makes sense and I have not butchered the information I have received from IOTA too much.
Thanks to all who provided information and ideas. I will still try to get my simple sketch posted for what I believe the 12v schematic for the battery, slide motor, 12v fuse panel and converter to be.
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01-04-2008, 12:15 AM
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#50
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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Cool! glad you got it figured out. You explained it well.
I was going to look up this post yesterday to contact you and see if the problem was resolved.
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01-04-2008, 01:37 AM
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#51
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Conover
Posts: 995
M.O.C. #1832
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BW2 check to see if next to your battery for your landing gear if you have 1 or 2 in line 50 map circuit breakers. these are not fuses but auto rest circuit breakers. they should have red plastic cover over them and go directly from battery to the landing gear, in which all goes to panel at some point. If you only have 1 install another one in parallel with it, this Will help stop any draw on panel fuses.
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01-04-2008, 06:00 AM
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#52
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 854
M.O.C. #5592
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Yes, I plan on adding the second fuse for the landing legs. My experience on blowing the 30 amp fuse on the 12v fuse panel was while operating the slides, in particular the cold weather. So now I will pay attention to the 30 amp fuses, both of them and if it occurs again, attempt to identify what was going on when the first of the two "blew"
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01-05-2008, 01:01 AM
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#53
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,376
M.O.C. #6575
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Broome101
BW2 check to see if next to your battery for your landing gear if you have 1 or 2 in line 50 map circuit breakers. these are not fuses but auto rest circuit breakers. they should have red plastic cover over them and go directly from battery to the landing gear, in which all goes to panel at some point. If you only have 1 install another one in parallel with it, this Will help stop any draw on panel fuses.
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Mind explaining that? If you have a 50 amp breaker, and it opens up, there is no current draw. Add another 50, and you have a possible 100 amp draw.
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