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Old 02-28-2014, 12:08 PM   #1
jfaberna
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Winterizing with the pump and winterizing switch?

When I've winterized in the past I did Keystone's option 1 and blew everything out with an air compressor set to 35 PSI and then put RV antifreeze in the traps. This time I tried the option 2 to make sure it worked and I had problems with the pump not sucking the antifreeze unless I hold the bottle with the hose in it at just a certain height. It makes it difficult to do the job by yourself. I was hoping to just hook up the hose to the Antifreeze port, with the other end in the bottle of antifreeze and set the bottle in the convenience center or basement.

Is this normal? If it is then I'm back to only using the compressor.
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Old 02-28-2014, 12:18 PM   #2
Overlord
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Even a slight air leak at the hose washer keeps the pump from drawing the antifreeze up the hose. Elevating the jug so there is less of a column of fluid to lift also helps. I usually pull my truck up next to the rig and set the jug on the tailgate. Some folks have had success with using two hose washers to make the seal better.
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Old 02-28-2014, 03:27 PM   #3
DougnDawn
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Overlord hit it on the nail head, put two washers at the hose connection to make a better seal, worked fine, read it here on the Monty forum last fall. Good Luck.
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Old 02-28-2014, 03:30 PM   #4
farmall130
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Yep, I had the same problem, added a washer as suggested on here and it pumps fine, even with the jug a good bit lower...
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Old 02-28-2014, 03:38 PM   #5
BB_TX
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Washer here also. Except my original was so thick I could only get a couple threads on the hose and could not tighten it without it popping off. As a result i could not get an air tight connection. Replaced it with a thinner washer and no problem.
I set my jugs on a short step ladder (about level with the basement) and can see it out a window. That way when I open a faucet I can watch the jug to see when it gets near empty and close the faucet before it starts sucking air.
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Old 02-28-2014, 03:56 PM   #6
Rondo
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Bill-- How much "pink stuff" do you use winterizing? I can usually get away with using about a gallon and a half total and that includes dumping some in each trap also. Maybe it is because we have a 2004 unit but I would not think there is that much difference in the water line lengths to be filled with the "pink stuff".
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Old 02-28-2014, 04:45 PM   #7
BB_TX
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I end up using about 4 gallons. But I do let it run some after it turns pink out of the faucets to make sure the traps are protected. I don't go back and pour any more in the traps.

And I run some thru both low point drains and thru the black tank flush. Plus the toilet line. Seems to take forever for it to reach the kitchen faucet, both hot and cold. Don't know where those lines are routed but they must be long. Also takes a long time just to get hot water there.

And running it thru the hot and cold lines to the washer takes over a gallon if I remember right. I let it run thru the hot line until I see good pink in the washer. Then drain it and do the same for the cold line.
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Old 02-28-2014, 04:47 PM   #8
bncinwv
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Ron,
The other factor to be considered is what all needs winterizing. For instance, we have the Splendide washer that we winterize and now we also have the dishwasher drawer that also requires some pink stuff to be run through it. In addition, we have the black tank flush that we make sure the pink stuff runs through as well. On average we are between 3 and 4 gallons each time we winterize (typically twice a year since we do that Thanksgiving trip and in our neck of the woods the initial winterizing is pre-Halloween). Didn't mean to jump in the middle of your inquiry, but wanted to make sure that members know that there are requirements beyond the norm. Yes, I do acknowledge that we are always "beyond the norm"!!!!
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Old 02-28-2014, 06:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by MDL

I don't want to side rail the thread either, but my question has always been, if you can use compressed air and put some antifreeze in the p-trap, why would you ever flood the entire RV water system with this pink antifreeze???? I have not idea what benefit it provides over blowing out the lines.

I blow out my lines, fill the p-traps with a cup or so of antifreeze, put it down the black and grey tanks (don't have a washer/dryer or dish washer), so what am I missing? What are the trade-offs???

P.S. I want to go camping a lot more in the winter over the weekends or a 4 day, so that would be a LOT of pink antifreeze...
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Old 02-28-2014, 06:46 PM   #10
Rondo
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Granted we don't have the washer hookup so there is no pink stuff going there but I do pull the low point caps and let it come out there when I winterize and I do inject some pink stuff into the blacktank flush line. I think the most I've used is 2 1/2 gallons and that was my first time doing it and ran quite it bit out of each faucet.

MDL-- I've used the air method also and the only thing about it is IF you do not get all of the water out of each line, you will have some water settle into the low spots of the lines and it will freeze. These low spots cannot be seen most of the time because they are behind the walls or under the floor. If water collects in the low spot it will freeze and CAN crack or split the plastic pipe. In most cases this will not happen because the water expands when forming ice and that expansion NORMALLY will extend up the pipe instead of splitting the pipe BUT who wants to take the chance of that happening, especially if it is behind a wall or under the floor??!!?? You won't find out about the leak until you pressurize the system again in the spring at a campground or if you're lucky at home before heading out on an outing. The water leak is not a fun thing to fix. If you are in an area of the country that does not have the freezing temps for days on end like we do in Nebraska and other Northern States the blow out method works quite well and the pink stuff down the drains into the traps is normally sufficient.
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Old 03-01-2014, 01:12 AM   #11
WaltBennett
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One thing I found using pink stuff is that I had to notch the end of the pickup hose to keep it from sealing against the bottom of the jug. And, yes, the issue of having the right height of the thing is a pain. The old piece of garden hose I used was long enough that I could put the jug on the floor of the basement, but it was also so stiff that it kept trying to tip it over. Think I need to make up a plastic tube thingie that's more flexible.
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Old 03-01-2014, 01:35 AM   #12
Samiterry
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by MDL

I don't want to side rail the thread either, but my question has always been, if you can use compressed air and put some antifreeze in the p-trap, why would you ever flood the entire RV water system with this pink antifreeze???? I have not idea what benefit it provides over blowing out the lines.

I blow out my lines, fill the p-traps with a cup or so of antifreeze, put it down the black and grey tanks (don't have a washer/dryer or dish washer), so what am I missing? What are the trade-offs???
Last November I not only blew out my lines, I also used about 4 gal. of antifreeze in the lines and p-traps. Thats without a clothes washer or a dishwasher. The benefit of doing all this is peace of mind that I did everything I could to assure of no broken lines this spring after having a -20*/-30* wind chill winter.
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Old 03-01-2014, 01:45 AM   #13
kdeiss
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Rondo

Bill-- How much "pink stuff" do you use winterizing? I can usually get away with using about a gallon and a half total and that includes dumping some in each trap also. Maybe it is because we have a 2004 unit but I would not think there is that much difference in the water line lengths to be filled with the "pink stuff".
I agree 1 1/2 Gal
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Old 03-01-2014, 02:01 AM   #14
Phil P
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I got the best idea.

Go south and if it gets to cold in Key West then put it on a barge and go to Puerto Rico. LOL

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Old 03-01-2014, 02:56 AM   #15
jfaberna
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Thanks for all the information. But looking back, I think I'm missing the washer that everyone is talking about. All I see is a black plastic ring inside the port, but that may just be the check valve. I'll put in a washer or two and play with it.

I'd prefer an easier method, but now that you have to blow out the Sewer Flush system regardless of Keystone method, it forces me to setup the generator for the compressor and I need A/C for the washer to run the drain and spin cycle to flush some antifreeze into that p-trap. This also requires me to be hooked up to a dumping station because the washer drain bypasses the holding tanks.

The engineer in me says the complete pumping of "the pink stuff" stuff everywhere is the perfect solution, but I know they leave Keystone and most all dealers with just the lines blown out and pink stuff in the traps.
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Old 03-01-2014, 04:24 AM   #16
okierver
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i agree the pink stuff is pretty easy we had the same problem the first time and added a washer and walla works great. we use about 3 gallons, no washer dryer or dishwaser. i did forget about the black spray that will go on the list. i had a extra hose from something and it was flexible enough that i just set the gallon of pink on the floor in the convenience center and have the the wife turn on the pump and go to each faucet and i can watch the gallon of anti freeze and tell her when to turn off and then i switch to the next gallon.
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Old 03-01-2014, 06:21 AM   #17
Bigsky3625RE
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We use about three gallons. I pour them all in a large bucket and put the hose in.

Turn the pump on and start opening the facuets including the shower, the outside faucet in the water closet and the black tank flush.

Read on here that just using air won't get water out of the back flow preventers.

Takes maybe 15 minutes to do it so it really isn't that bad.
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Old 03-01-2014, 07:46 AM   #18
kdeiss
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Years back I just used air to blow out lines.In the spring i had a hair line crack in a Shower Faucet water froze.
I also think the pink stuff keeps the faucet washer from drying out

No need to blow out or add Pink Stuff to the Black Tank flush self draing
I have been winterizing the Montana for 12 years and other units for over 30
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Old 03-01-2014, 10:17 AM   #19
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The black tank flush line drains from the point of the vacuum breaker valve to the tank. But I don't think it can drain from the line from the vacuum breaker valve back to the external connection. The valve is located in a water line that goes up in a wall, connects to the valve, then down to the tank. When the flush line is pressurized the valve actuates to prevent water leaking out and air from leaking in. When the flush water is turned off the valve opens to air allowing air to enter the line and prevent siphoning either direction. That would leave water in the line between the external connection and that valve.
I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time) but after working on mine that is certainly the way it looked.
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Old 03-01-2014, 10:42 AM   #20
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A previous discussion we had regarding washing machines and winterizing led to the assumption (maybe only by me??) that air cannot blow through the washing machine past the pump mechanism either. The directions for the washer specifically call for the pink stuff. I do not risk anything in the rig here in the cold cold hills, since four gallons of the pink stuff typically runs us about $12. So a year of insurance for $24 to cover both winterizations sounds like a pretty cheap insurance policy to me.
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