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05-11-2017, 03:45 AM
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#101
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Okeechobee
Posts: 2,150
M.O.C. #11206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWSWine
'
The award was over 1 million dollars for restitution (insurance company recouping cost) and damages.
If you have a lot assets you might want look at umbrella policy. I carry 2 million that will cover over the coverage lawsuits/medical expense. If you are in an accident that the hospital bills and damage exceed your coverage you can be liable for the excess.
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An overage coverage would not have helped in this case.
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05-12-2017, 05:33 PM
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#102
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Established Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: cross hill
Posts: 36
M.O.C. #18012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beau2010
I dinged the left side rear fender on my '16 Ram DRW while leveling the 5er; Body shop estimate; $4000. Even so, still like the looks much better than the bolt on fenders the other two have.
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Just goes to show everybody's different, the Dodge fenders is the reason I didn't buy one. I did give them a good look to but just couldn't do it.
__________________
2016 F-350 DRW 4x4
Anderson Ultimate Aluminum Hitch
2016 Montana High Country 305 RL with Mich. Ribs
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05-13-2017, 05:32 AM
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#103
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Okeechobee
Posts: 2,150
M.O.C. #11206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfb
Are you self insured? Otherwise I'd have to say hogwash..we've been thru this a million times. There us no weight police, no insurance company will deny coverage because of weight. Where this comes from is beyond me...
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There are more than one county in Florida that have trained their sheriff deputies so they are qualified ton weight vehicles. So there are weight police.
As for insurance here is what your insurance company will do.
First a woman driving the family car turns left in front of you and the accident causes her husband’s death as passenger in the car. The children in the back seat are not injured. In Florida your truck and trailer will be weighed. You are 1,000 lbs over weight. This results in you being charged as causing the accident. This is the same principle as applied to a DUI driver.
There will be an investigation conducted to determine if there is enough evidence to charge you with man slaughter or homicide this normally takes about 12 months.
Now you’re sued by the family of the husband, your insurance company researches the events and all the evidence and decides they have no defense (just like a DUI case). In Florida all the insurance company at this time is required to do is pay policy limits and they are finished with the whole thing.
There you are without an attorney or any defense. Assuming you have the money to obtain an attorney you still are in a very poor situation and most attorneys want a $10,000 down stroke just to get started.
If the injured party continues the law suit and is awarded a great deal more than the insurance company has paid you will be responsible.
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05-13-2017, 07:40 AM
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#104
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Depends on temps
Posts: 1,648
M.O.C. #13157
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Phil, what is the saying? about taking a horse to the river. You can preach to these guys, but they still want to argue.
A 17K 5th requires a DRW. My little 3150RL has between 32-3500 lbs of pin weight. Depends on how much beer or ammo I have loaded.
I am getting ready to do a 4 month trip today, I'll be a bit light this year, last year took 15 30 packs, this year only 10, but will have about 8K rounds of ammo.
__________________
2012 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 4x4 3.73 Tow Max Pkg B&W Companion 60 gal RDS aux fuel tank. 2014 Montana 3150RL, 2 A/C's, Leather, 6 Point Jacks, Splendede WD2100XC, Mor/ryde X-Factor, Duravis 250 tires with TST 507RV monitors. 2 x Honda EU2000's
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05-13-2017, 08:33 AM
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#105
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Sedona
Posts: 176
M.O.C. #18355
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I don't know what universe Phil is from but I certainly don't recognize it. It just does not happen that a party who caused an accident recovers from another party who may be overweight, drunk, etc. Its called comparative fault. You make a sudden left turn in front of me, causing me to hit you and kill your passenger, on the criminal side, you, not I will be charged with manslaughter. On the civil side, if you even get to a jury, it will find you 100% at fault and you will recover nothing. The drunk driver will get arrested for his offense but that never mitigates the other driver's fault.
We notice Phil never cites the statute he claims imposes felony punishment on the overweight party even if the other party is at fault because it does not exist. I am not advocating for ignoring weight limits; we pull a Montana with a 3500 DRW CTD that is well within the the limits; GVWR 14,000 lbs. Do so at your peril but the consequences will not resemble what Phil claims.
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05-13-2017, 09:45 AM
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#106
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Montana Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: North Lake Tahoe
Posts: 639
M.O.C. #18510
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You guys, keep it civil, we all know some people bought a truck, and want to stick with it, or don't have the means to upgrade, so they just stay the course. I just got back from a trip, and saw some crazy people. One guy had a Chevy 3/4 ton, pulling a good size 5th wheel, and behind it another trailer with two Quads in it??? Some people have a few too many drinks at a restaurant, and think they are fine after dinner and drive home. These are choices we all make every day. Hopefully none of us will have to be in court for any reason if we just drive safe and stay alert.
__________________
2017 3820FK Legacy Edition full body paint Montana, For Sale this November, 2018. 2016 Ram 3500 long bed Dually Cummins Turbo with air bags
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05-14-2017, 05:04 AM
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#107
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Okeechobee
Posts: 2,150
M.O.C. #11206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beau2010
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We notice Phil never cites the statute he claims imposes felony punishment on the overweight party even if the other party is at fault because it does not exist. I am not advocating for ignoring weight limits; we pull a Montana with a 3500 DRW CTD that is well within the the limits; GVWR 14,000 lbs. Do so at your peril but the consequences will not resemble what Phil claims.
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I am referring to
In 1930 the Florida Supreme Court put the motor vehicle in the “dangerous instrument” category. This covers a lot of types of machinery we us without considering the dangers involved.
Some examples are leave a lawnmower running unattended, a wood chipper unattended leave you car running in the parking lot while getting something out of the trunk etc leaves you venerable to having the “dangerous instrumentality doctrine” applied by law enforcement in the event of some kind of accident happens.
When it comes to the criminal charges the use of a dangerous instrument while impaired by alcohol or drugs automatically puts you at fault regardless of what the determination would have been had alcohol or drugs been involved. The application of this doctrine has become common when a driver improperly uses a motor vehicle by improperly loading it.
In the description I presented previously about the left turn is a reference to an actual case where the driver was over the blood alcohol limit when the accident happened. That driver was eligible for parole from his 20 year sentence about 2 years ago.
Another one that was well covered on the news media and Internet was fellow whose wife was killed when a portion of a failed wheel from a passing car hit her while she was on the side of the road. The driver was over the blood alcohol limit. This woman’s husband was making an appeal to the courts to commute the drivers 20 year manslaughter sentence because he felt the drive had no responsibility for the accident. The statement his guy made was “a broken wheel killed my wife not a drunk driver”.
My education in these matters comes from several sources. I was approved as an expert witness in Judge Atkins federal court Miami Florida for motor vehicles including aircraft. After testifying a witness can stay in the court room to see how it goes.
The information about how the DUI effects an accident investigation came from a FHP accident investigator that used my wife’s coffee shop to write his reports. After retirement he continued as an investigator for attorneys for a number of years. While he wouldn’t give me any names and dates etc he did give me a lot of information about the policies the FHP uses in applying the various laws to an accident.
SO I will make the statement again you have a serious accident with your truck and Montana RV (legal definition of serious accident “one or more vehicles has to be towed”) in the state of Florida you are subject to having your vehicle weighed and if it is an accident with serious injuries you will have you vehicle weighed. If it is overweight you were operating a vehicle improperly loaded.
From experience I function in the real world.
Phil P
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05-14-2017, 06:49 AM
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#108
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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I am no legal expert unlike many here. We stay within all specs as our lawyer told us....Do not make it any harder on me than it will be IF I have to defend you in a court action.
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05-14-2017, 06:56 AM
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#109
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kville
Posts: 2,865
M.O.C. #7871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richfaa
I am no legal expert unlike many here. We stay within all specs as our lawyer told us....Do not make it any harder on me than it will be IF I have to defend you in a court action.
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That's good advice, and covers it all.
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05-14-2017, 09:45 AM
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#110
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Sedona
Posts: 176
M.O.C. #18355
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Phil:
You made a statement that I know not to be true, to-wit; if you are drunk or overloaded, etc, and are involved in an accident that was caused by someone else, you will go to jail. You may very well go to jail for the drunk driving, etc. but it will not be because of your involvement in the accident. You also will not be liable in a civil action for the damage/death the other driver caused. You are responsible for your own actions and any damage/death YOUR action caused, not what someone else caused. It is called comparative fault.
I have been licensed to practice law for 44 years in three states (not Florida) and spent 14 of those years on the trial bench. I have tried all kinds of criminal and civil cases as a judge and as a litigant. I have heard many stories about how the justice system has screwed someone, but in virtually every case, when the facts are known, the story-teller got pretty much what he deserved. I also function in the real world where facts, not what someone, somewhere said one time, mean something. I restate: operate overloaded at your peril. Most recent 3/4 ton trucks have the power to pull and stop within a reasonable distance most any trailer, but that doesn't mean you should if the rig is too heavy for your truck. There are consequences for overloading and CAUSING an accident. It doesn't help the cause to overstate those consequences.
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05-14-2017, 04:00 PM
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#111
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,528
M.O.C. #2283
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2 people you ALWAYS need to listen to, your accountant and your lawyer!
Lynwood
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05-14-2017, 04:50 PM
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#112
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Livermore
Posts: 321
M.O.C. #17521
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Wow this thread got ugly. Lawyers, cops, doctors OH MY
LOL
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05-14-2017, 05:46 PM
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#113
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: owen sound
Posts: 491
M.O.C. #17566
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So here is a simple question for the legal folks, would the slightly overweight (100 - 400lbs) of said truck not have to be decided the cause of said accident in order for the charges to stick ? In other words someone would have to prove that because the vehicle was overweight it was the primary cause of the accident ? I seen an earlier post that talked about being overweight preventing the truck from stopping safely. Most of the posts on here are talking about 2500 to 3500 hd trucks or F250 to 350 trucks or SRW vs DRW and regardless of such they all use the same brakes, same frame etc etc the only real difference is a couple helper springs so how do you make that leap ?????
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05-14-2017, 06:28 PM
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#114
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,528
M.O.C. #2283
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I'm certainly NO legal expert. After an accident and the truck was a few hundred pounds overweight how would anyone prove it was overweight before the accident, things got moved around and since you hit something moved fordward, and that made the truck overweight. The water tank in the back of the camper leaked all the water out and that added to the problem.
If you are thousands overweight, you have a problem but a few hundred I doubt it.
I too would like to hear from out legal experts.
Lynwood
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05-14-2017, 08:06 PM
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#115
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: owen sound
Posts: 491
M.O.C. #17566
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Exactly Lynwood..... and they have to prove that was the primary cause of said accident. Seems there are lots of opinions about it however in reality the burden of proof will require a smoking gun and a direct cause. Almost impossible to prove after an accident for reason you describe. Really things get so overblown on what is primarily a cargo capacity issue of a few hundred pounds or less in most cases. All for the sake of a couple helper springs...
The single vs dual wheel debate is for the most part a moot point in most of the scenarios people are asking about and that comes down to personal preference.
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05-15-2017, 03:56 AM
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#116
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Okeechobee
Posts: 2,150
M.O.C. #11206
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Beau2010
You need to research the Florida Dangerous Instrumentality Doctrine.
The only mistake I made in my post was the date the Florida Supreme Court put the motor vehicle in the Dangerous Instrument category that was 1920 not 1930.
Research the case history as well you will find what I am talking about.
I don’t claim to be an attorney but I have spent a lot of time preparing for the hearing as an expert witness including working with my attorney to make sure I don’t libel myself in my testimony.
After my last deposition I quit the business because too many attorneys wanted to influence my opinion to suit their case and came to the deposition / court unprepared for the deposition / trial.
Phil P
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05-15-2017, 08:49 AM
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#117
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Sedona
Posts: 176
M.O.C. #18355
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Phil:
I am familiar with the Florida doctrine of which you speak. First, it is a principle of tort law, which is completely separate from criminal law. The doctrine imposes tort liability upon the owner of a "dangerous instrumentality" who gives permission to another to operate that instrument and that other party does so negligently. The modern example would be the owner of a trucking company whose trucks are not maintained properly being held liable for damage his negligent driver caused in operating the unsafe truck. There is nothing unusual or Florida-exclusive about it. That is the law in most states.
Secondly, a tort is a civil wrong, for which money damages may be awarded to the prevailing party. The standard of proof is a preponderance of evidence; to prevail, a party must show evidence that makes his position more likely than not, 51% or more.
In criminal law, the State must show guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, more like 99%.
The scene you depicted in your original post could not happen. In 1920, contributory negligence would prevent the left-turning driver from recovering anything. Now, comparative fault would allocate fault among the parties. The RVer overweight by 1000 lbs probably would not be allocated any fault unless the plaintiff could prove that the excess weight increased the stopping distance of the RV significantly. Not very likely.
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05-20-2017, 11:05 AM
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#118
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Montana Fan
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Coeur D Alene
Posts: 264
M.O.C. #19835
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Payload Confusion
I think I understand the basic principals of payload capacity as it relates to GVWR, but here's where I'm confused. I have a 2015 F350 long bed SRW with diesel. My maximum GVWR is set at 11,500 lbs. Based on my door sticker I only have 3,180 lbs. of legal payload left (including passengers, hitch, etc.). Here's my confusion: every year the maximum payload increases on the same unit, however the GVWR remains at 11,500. What good does it do to substantially increase the payload capacity each year if you are stuck with the same GVWR? In other words, you can't use the additional capacity. Help me understand please. Thank you.
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05-20-2017, 11:56 AM
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#119
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Eureka Springs
Posts: 432
M.O.C. #17829
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Is the truck getting lighter each year? Might explain increased payload and static GVWR.
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05-20-2017, 12:55 PM
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#120
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Montana Fan
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Coeur D Alene
Posts: 264
M.O.C. #19835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razrbk
Is the truck getting lighter each year? Might explain increased payload and static GVWR.
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Not significantly lighter but the payload capacity went up 700 lbs. from mine. Still not the point. My real question is, why have such high payloads when you are stuck with 11,500 lbs. total? There's no way to reach the higher payload capacity even with no fuel, no driver and passengers, no options.
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