Will 2009 Be the Year of the Bargain?

[rames14]

Well, as 2008 draws to a close, everyone will be betting as to whether 2009 will be better, worse or the same. No one will be watching this closer than RV and Auto dealers and manufacturers. We are considering a new Montana/Big Sky next year. Will we see lots of bargains or will the remaining dealers/manufacturers hold the line on price reductions? Two years ago, I switched jobs to leave the auto industry - what a fortunate decision for us. But, there are still many people that make their living building RV's and Pick Ups. We hope that this downturn clears up as quickly as possible. In the meantime, there should be some bargains, I would think. Sure would like to add '09 365 Big Sky to our signature.

[Delaine and Lindy]

Well thats a great topic for a Monday morning! I believe 2009 will be so volatile, since all these bail-outs or what ever you want to call them is taking a great toll on our tax base. Out Country is in a terrible situation, nothing like this have I seen in my life time. Credit and poor decisions have put us in a tail-spin and its for from over. The Automotive industry is bankrupt, now they want the Tax payers to pay for retirement benefits and medical care for their employees. Should the Tax payers pay this. My opinion is no, someone made bad decisions they must live with it. Now everyone want money from the Tax payers, its your money their wanting. As for the RV industry as a whole, they are in serious trouble. And thats all of the industry not just a few. However now is the best time I have witnessed to buy RV's and Trucks I have ever seen. Just go to any dealer and the showroom is empty, there are exceptions but I called last week to have a washer motor replaced on DW's car and was told bring it in now or what ever time you like. We must stop this money give away now. When the UAW want give no concessions, well its time they live in reality. Do you or did you make from $40.00 to $75.00 and hour including benfits, I sure didn't. Detroit is to fat it has to cut and cut deep. Is it going to be easy no, but it sure looks like its going to happen. GBY....

[skypilot]

I see from yesterday's papers that there are large municipalities that are now going to the Federal Government for bail-out monies as well. This is totally out of hand -- locally our city government will give millions to out-of-state investors to build a track mall that nobody wanted (wants) yet last week they said that they were going to have to short the police department 120,000 this month because not enough property taxes were coming in. (And to top that off -- I just got my annual tax appraisal notification and our (no-increased taxes) pledge was for naught -- over 300 increase for next year (schools mostly!).

I only have one remaining question -- where is the line I need to join for my bail-out. I'm packed and ready to go stand in it!!!

Sorry for the rant!

[Mrs. CountryGuy]

Not to get in a shouting match over the car companies and our difficult times. BUT, there have already been 400,000 jobs lost, JUST in Michigan, and a good deal of those are automotive. We have been losing ground and jobs, and not just the UAW by the way, for years. The white collar dudes have taken huge hits too. I understand a lot of them have to pay for their medical coverage, I feel for them.

I believe if you do some more research you might find that the UAW took over the medical insurance stuff, not sure that is included in the bailout situation. It is not the UAW going to the Feds for $$, I thought it was GM, FORD and CHRYSLER.

Now, I am rather emotional about this, I admit same, you all know that. Al is a Ford retiree. I have a hard time thinking that you all wish us a melt down in the Stevens household because he chose to work in a plant filled with cancer stuff for 32 years, many of those years he worked 7 days, 12 hours, 35 to 45 days straight. He worked in good faith there, and now because he did you think it is ok for us to lose everything. Sorry, that hurts.

I thank my maker everyday that the retirement check hit the bank on the first of the month, and that Tana and Big Butt are fully paid for, they cannot take that away from us.

And, I thank my maker everyday that Al does not have cancer (yet). He already lost hearing from those 32 years.

None of these issues are simplistic, all of these issues involve real people, real people that did the best they could and still are facing major trouble.

Life is not fair, it just is.

Thank my maker I did not lose my home to a wild fire or a hurricane or flood or tornado this year.

As some like to say, life is good. Yep, this month it is, the check cleared the bank.

Sorry for the rant, way off subject.

[richfaa]

Folks we really need to think hard about the effects of the auto companies going bankrupt instead of quoting clichés or emotion based thoughts.
1 out of every 10 jobs are directly related to the auto industry and that is only the directly related jobs.. Look around in your townn and determine what jobs and business will be affected. We are talking millions of jobs.. Perhaps yours or a loved one. Yes the entire industry as well as others need to be restructured..top to bottom, everyone. Why is only a 3 letter word but.

WHY can a foreign auto maker build and sell a car for less than a US auto maker. Determine why..then find a solution

We are told US cars are junk...if so..

WHY.. can a American auto worker build a Quality Honda in Ohio..but not a quality Ford in Detrot. Determine why then find a solution or is that just plain BS.(IMO it is BS. That Ford is just as good as our Honda but the Honda cost less//WHY is that..

We use the excuse we can not compete with the "cheap labor" in other countries.. Well we live in a Global economy so we MUST compete

WHY.can we not compete and WHAT can we do about it.

Bailouts need to be tied to solutions..Bailout Ok if needed but with solutions, results and a payback.


We need to think about what the effect will be on ALL of us and what we and our Government can do to solve the problem.

[DarMar]

Rich is right "we really need to think hard about the effects of the auto companies going bankrupt". Neither the Canadian nor the American governments can allow the north american auto industry to go in that direction, we would see job losses that would bring EVERYBODY to their knees no matter where you derive your income from. The word "entitlement" was used in another thread and in my opinion that attitude has brought us all to where we are today. Welfare people, union people, seniors, people of all races have stood on that pedestal and continued to demand more for themselves. In particular in this case where are those UAW union leaders, I mean the real leaders. By now they should have woke up to the reality that their wages and benefits have destroyed this valuable industry, but to date still no immediate consesions are coming forward. It's not just the autoworkers, we can no longer afford the bloated salaries in the health care system (my DW is a nurse), the education system (at least here in Canada), nor most levels of government. We must remember everything we have gotten from the attitude of entitlement our children and grandchildren will be left to pay for. I am afraid the time has arrived where we ARE ALL going to have to accept a lesser lifestyle.
Sorry for the rant Ron and Terrie, and back to your post: It is a buyers market no question and if you have the cash money in hand it will being interesting to see just how low the prices may go. Problem is, if you are trading a unit in it will be depreciated proportionally to the new one your are purchasing.

[Mrs. CountryGuy]

Concessions, thought that was part of the buyout stuff that has been going on in the plants for a number of years, retire the high wagers and bring in people to do the same job for mucho less. Two tiers of pay for same job.

For over 15 years the salaried dudes have seen their work load increase, time and time again, they retire someone, and make others do the work, not rehiring. If you wanna say, ohhhhh, they were not working that hard anyway, talk to a few that have first hand experience. They were working 60 to 80 hour weeks and frying out, and still handed more work to do when the next guy retired (or was committed).

And, lets not forget those top execs who get millions a year in bonus checks and multi millions for golden chute type thingys. I still don't get how ANY one man can be worth that much coin. But, lets blame it all on the UAW. Cripes folks, there is enough blame to go around more than once. But, blame is not fixing this.

Wayyyyy toooooo complicated and emotional. Gonna go find a dark hole.

[Emmel]

I had a very long response to this topic, but decided to try not to offend anyone. So here's what I came up with.

Ron, I hope you get the price you are looking for. Look around at everything on today's market. NOW is the time to buy!

Carol, I pray we keep out retiree checks coming. I've got 38 years invested in the UAW, but worked in the aircraft industry.(Japan makes aircraft brakes too!)

Rich, I will pay the extra dollars to purchase the Ford hoping it does make a difference.

JMHO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[billhoover]

To me the answer to how the auto makers got themselves in this mess is easy:

Who's in trouble: Chrysler/Ford/GM.

Who's doing fine: Honda/Toyota.

What's the difference:

-Overall the Honda/Toyota brands make higher quality vehicles...if you don't blieve that, look at the Consumer Reports ratings by owners themselves.
-Union vs non union.

Richfaa mentioned Fords costing more...maybe it's because the big three pay an hourly union wage of $73 and the others pay an hourly non union wage of $40.

[Bob & Lee]

Not part of the three auto makers by still union, My brother retired teamster 8 yeare ago and now being told no more medical Insurance, they give him $200 a month to help pay for his own. Not good at 70 years old. There are a lot of things needing looked at to get out this down spin.

Bob

[Emmel]

Bill, I just read today's head line news, Chrysler wants bail out and gives $30m in exec bonuses, go figure! Those execs are not union workers!

Also, Toyota is seeing hard times.

Back to Ron's question, now is the time to buy if your job and income are secure. Like Carol says, our tv and Montana are payed for, so we could always live in it!

[sfretts]

Hi,

Getting back on topic a little. As for should I wait or buy was something my wife and I went through this summer with $5.00 diesel and other costs skyrocketing. As they say, timing is everything. Here is my opinion on how it works:

We were looking for some time and gasped when prices started jumping. I talked to many reps and it was the same that RV sales were slowing dramatically. The dealers pay for the RV's the have on site. Not sure if they buy them or pay flooring or what, but you know they have an investment. This triggered my decision to buy. I had to be a little open on options etc as I needed to buy a lot model in order to reap the benefits of the poor economy. We found what we wanted, were able to horse trade around for a couple things on the lot(in other trailers) and walked out nearly $28,000 off MSRP. I have since noticed that with every sale of an RV, they donot replace it. The dealer we went to is very large and now they have about 1/2 to 2/3 less inventory. So here is how I see what is happening; the longer you wait, the less you will have to choose from unless you order from the factory. This reduces the discounts as they have nothing or little into the order should you not buy. I feel the longer you wait, the bargains will dwindle.

Last week we drove to Idaho and the freeway goes right by the Keystone factory in Pendleton, OR. I believe they build Cougar products there. Last year, all the storage lots were crammed full of trailers waiting to be delivered. Last weekend, there were maybe 20 5vrs and a few pull behinds in the main lot and the other lots were empty. Real bizarre contrast to last year.

My personal advice based on my experience is that if you find the package and colors you like and they have it in stock, you should be able to save lots of money. By next spring, you may not find that unit unless you order it. Nothing wrong with that, but the price may be higher to order.

Anyway, hope this helps

Steve

[richfaa]

Complicated issue isn't it.we should all become more educated on the problem and ask WHY more often. How come we build and pump out Thousands of Honda's in Ohio but I googled Ford plants in Japan.Do you think there is a Ford plant in Japan building thousands of Fords....WHY...

Why are those American auto workers building Honda's in Ohio not building Fords or Chevy's or Dodges in Detroit....WHY..

[TLightning]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Complicated issue isn't it.we should all become more educated on the problem and ask WHY more often. How come we build and pump out Thousands of Honda's in Ohio but I googled Ford plants in Japan.Do you think there is a Ford plant in Japan building thousands of Fords....WHY...

Why are those American auto workers building Honda's in Ohio not building Fords or Chevy's or Dodges in Detroit....WHY..

Union vs no union.

Heard on the news today that $1,600 of EVERY vehicle GM builds goes to pay retired union workers health care. Honda and Toyota do not incur those costs.

[ALAN]

I guess Kathy and I are going to gamble for next year. I just had a quote for a 2009 3400RL with a lot of extras for $40,000. I bid on a unit they had on the lot, but the salesman said he could give me a better deal if I ordered it instead. The opposite of what I thought would happen. We decided to wait and see what the economy was going to do before we committed all that cash.

Alan & Kathy

[snfexpress]

We went ahead and ordered a 340RLQ from the factory. We wanted one without the built-in dining room table and surrounding cabinet. Without the Keystone factory incentives (thru 11/30/08), we still managed to get what we consider to be a really good deal, although with a trade-in it is always hard to nail the numbers down. We are getting our unit from Leisure Time RV in Oklahoma City.

As an aside, we contacted some major dealers in Florida, our first choice since that is our winter destination. They wanted nearly $6,000 more after some serous negotiations.

[rames14]

Thanks for the views. I have heard that you get a better deal on a unit you buy direct from the factory. That flies in the face of logic, in my mind. I know that I have been told that a unit on the lot has incurred finance charges by the dealer. However, that grows with each month on the lot. Of course, we are most interested in the Big Sky, which aren't on many lots. Also, we are interested in the changes that will be starting after the new year. I anticipate the factory will be more than happy to receive an order. We need to wait until February financially anyway. One of the reasons we're interested in going to the Tampa show - see the new stuff and how much of what we saw at the rally makes it into the new units.