If I go to a chip whats it going to do for me?

[RMccord]

I have a 2005 GMC 2500HD DUramax/Allison LLY diesel. It is entirely stock with the exception of an EGT and Boost gauge.
I am considering adding a Predator or Edge gauge and using it in the tow mode which adds appx 45-50 hp and about similar torgue.
How will this addition HP and torgue help me over all with out other mods. Where will I see the improvement in performance and towing? Will the HP make climbing grades even better? I do not intend to get it to use the higher settings if I add it at all.
Just wanting to know what I should expect to see in ways of benefits from it and where they will be most obvious.
Also adding a larger 5" Banks exhaust am I correct it too will add a reasonable HP improvement.

[Glenn and Lorraine]

To answer your question--"If I go to a chip whats it going to do for me?"
3 words "Void Your Warranty"

I have the same truck, in the short bed version, and I see absolutely no reason in changing what GMC and Duramax have put into it. My GMC is more than adequate just the way it came from the factory. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[Countryfolks]

You might research/reconsider the 5" exhaust. I've read it may cause a loss in hp if your motor is not really heavily mod'ed. The air filter and muffler/exhaust mods are aimed at improving airflow through the motor and reducing egt's, and probably don't do much for hp/torque gains by themselves. The 4" exhaust you probably have on the truck now are adequate for the job, the muffler is the main restriction in the system. A good straight thru muffler will almost double airflow. The addition of a chip apparently does improve performance, but at the expense of mileage and warranty. Even so, I'm considering a Quadzilla XZT.

Skip

[tollmann]

We run a Super Chip on our Ford PS. Its set for tow safe. Mileage increased a little performance increased a lot. The shifts are crisper and hill climbing is much easier. As I have over 100K on my truck the warranty wasn't a concern. The downside is that it screws up the trip computer. According to the trip computer I got 25 MPG n our first trip after installing it pulling my 3670. Some quick math at my next fuel stop brought me back to earth but I'm not crying about 10 - 12 MPG. Before the chip and exhaust mods we got 9 - 11 MPG. It will take a long time to pay for itself in fuel savings but the extra performance is worth it.

[gitrdun]

A bigger exhaust can do more harm than help. A 4" cat back exhaust is plenty big. You can program a new tire size if you change tires and the programmer will give you more torque thus causing better fuel mileage as long as you stay at 2000 rpms. Also people talk of installing these big air tubes and filter but for the Duramax it has shown a lose of power, recommmended if anything is to use a green replacement filter. I just keep the factory because of the dirt they keep out. Hope this helps. I was recommended to use the Hypertech programmer because when the egt reaches its max the computer will degas the turbo lowering egt temperatures.

[Montana Sky]

I am with Glenn on this one, if it isnt broke-why fix it? My 04 Duramax just does so well that I cannot find one reason to add/change anything on it. But that old saying goes, different strokes for different folks.

[padredw]

"As for me and my house..." Well, I go along with Glenn and Montana Sky. I see no need for any addition or modification.

[Bill Hill]

We haven't done it because of the possible warranty issues. But I might add Glenn, you've got the newer model which is already got more HP & torque than the older ones. (don'tcha just love it?!)

[Glenn and Lorraine]

quote:Originally posted by Bill Hill

We haven't done it because of the possible warranty issues. But I might add Glenn, you've got the newer model which is already got more HP & torque than the older ones. (don'tcha just love it?!)

YES I do and it being white is just a bonus! But even with the 03 I felt I had all the power I needed to haul my Monty. The factory stock 03 hauled my rig through the mountains of NY, PA, VA, NC, SC and TN without a problem. The additional HP and torque in the 05 is OK I guess but hardly noticable.

BTW-I traded for problems with the front wheel bearings and a vibration coming from the rear. As none of these were under warranty I just figured to become a GMC employee for the day and trade my problems away.

[sreigle]

I agree with Glenn that I don't see any need for more power even though I'm towing a total of 22,920 lbs, including Vicki and me and full fuel. However, I do feel that if anyone feels they need, or just plain want, more power, then there's nothing wrong with that so long as they are willing to risk the warranty.

I have no current interest in chipping mine but I understand many who go this route are reporting increased power and performance, with exceptions as others noted above. Mostly, at this point, I am interested in what the negative side effects are for those who go that route. So far I'm hearing higher engine temperatures and higher EGT. Besides possible warranty implications, what other drawbacks or side effects would one expect to have to deal with?

Many have stated they are happy with the results so I will assume when the right approach is taken with the right product the end result is positive. But what are the negatives?

Thanks.

[Dave e Victoria]

This is one of the more popular subjects on the forum. A search will give you all kinds of opinions.

As for me, we did not change chips - rather we changed programs on the factory chip using the Hypertech. Better mileage and blow your socks off performance. IMHO, you should drive with and without. Find someone nearby who has one and try it. I've seen this work on guys that own 2003, 2004 and 2005 GM trucks. Their eyes light up, a grin crosses their face and they grab for their wallet on the way to the auto parts store.

As to the warranty issue, I don't buy it. I simply return it to original program whenever it goes to the dealer so that they don't restore the original factory program and get my programmer out of sequence. I have had my truck in for warranty work on fuel pump and injectors. No problem. Indeed the injector problem was caused by the fuel pump and had zero to do with the Hypertech program. But, please be aware, I am talking GM. I have heard that Ford is much more picky on the warranty issue.

[Glenn and Lorraine]

Returning it to the original program before taking the truck in for service maybe all well and good BUT what about when you breakdown on the road and your truck is towed into the local GMC shop. With the hassle of the breakdown and the hassle of being towed, the hassle of what do ya do with the trailer? With all those hassles and others, did you remember to reprogram before the tow truck took it away?? I'm also not referring to injectors or fuel pumps, I'm referring to any major engine or transmission problems normally covered by "their" warranty. Do not think for one minute that GM, or any other TV manufacturer, is going to look the other way if that Duramax or Allison has to be replaced and you had "their" original program REprogramed???? Talk about "grab for their wallet", problem is the wallet ain't gonna cover it. Better be looking for a loan as those engines and tranys ain't cheap to rebuild or, worst case senario, replace.

[Dave e Victoria]

Glenn,
Its all a matter of risk/reward. ((Probability of failure) x (probability of not reprogram) x (probable expense))/((Fuel Saved-cost of programmer) x (1-(probability program caused failure))). And that is just for fuel saving.
Dave

PS: I think I read this on this forum a while back. Seems appropro. "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intentionof arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, worn out and screaming 'WOO HOO what a ride!!' "--source unknown.......

[dsprik]

Didn't we talk about this recently (couple weeks ago, maybe), that probably not necessary to chip a new tv, but if if we did, it would be hard for the manufacturer to prove that additions were the exact cause of any warranty work??? Maybe I misunderstood, though.

[Glenn and Lorraine]

It is totally the manufacturers's decision as to whether or not they feel that the chip or reprogramming was the cause of the problem. Remember they built the engine and/or transmission and therefore THEY are considered the EXPERTS. If their experts say it was the cause, as far as they are concerned, the case is closed. It now becomes your obligation to prove the EXPERTS wrong. You have to prove that the chip or reprogramming did not cause the problem. Good luck with that. About the only way you may win is to hire a high priced automtive engineer with expertise in your problem area to find on your side. Of course he will find for you as you are paying his bill to arrive at that conclusion. Now you will have to hire an attorney and than through a very expensive lawsuit consuming a lot of time and money you present your case. And after it is all said and done and the legal fees are gone, you may or may not win.

[Dave e Victoria]

Glenn,
Slow down man. We are talking about something less than $10,000 to replace either engine or tranny. No one is gong to spend much on experts to recover such an amount despite what those who are hysterical about trial lawyers would have us believe.
Let's plug some real numbers into my risk/reward formula. The way this is written, the smaller number yields less risk.
Probability of failure is less than 1 in 100,000 miles (given the manufacturers warrant) let's say 0.000001
Probability of not reprogram -- lets assume we are real incompetent and set this to 25% or.25
We'll assume cost is 10,000
That's it for the numerator
Now on the bottom we start with cost savings - let's assume 25% of miles are towing miles and ONLY claim savings for time under tow. 25,000 miles at 2mpg improvement yields a savings of about 400 gallons or roughly $1200
Then we have the probability the manufacturer can blame the programmer. Who knows but lets assume there are ten major possibilities for failure and 2 of them could be traced to the programmer. That leaves a probability of 20%

Plugging all of this in, we have risk= (0.000001 x 0.25 x $10,000)/(($1200 x ( 1- 0.2)) = 2.5/960 = 0.002604

Another way to look at this is, for each 100 dollars saved on fuel, you should put 26 cents in the kitty to cover the probability of failure

Of course if it happens I would be bitter but the risk sure does look tolerable to me.

[Montana Sky]

Well Dave,
I love the way your mind works. I took one look at that equation and said "what the _ _ll?" and then thought, heck I think it would be easier to just go buy a new truck rather than sit here and try to figure that one out. LOL! By the way, I really like the way your Cambridge looks sitting on your GMC. Nice unit rollin down the highways.

[Dave e Victoria]

Hey Sky, Thanks for the compliments about the truck. I wish I could have gotten a picture when we were on the 19% downgrade going into Pacifica.

As to the equation, it is only partially tongue in cheek. I'm fairly sure Glenn cannot be convinced. He is a good Guy. We parked next to him at Pla-Mor last year so I speak from experience. Given that, I was tempeted to include an e squared element or two but suspected this might confuse the basic arguement. As you observed, who needs that. Think I will go price a new truck.............

[Dave e Victoria]

quote:Originally posted by Dave e Victoria

Hey Sky, Thanks for the compliments about the truck and trailer. I wish I could have gotten a picture when we were on the 19% downgrade going into Pacifica CA.

As to the equation, it is only partially tongue in cheek. I'm fairly sure Glenn cannot be convinced. He is a good Guy. We parked next to him at Pla-Mor last year so I speak from experience. Given that, I was tempeted to include an e squared element or two but suspected this might confuse the basic arguement. As you observed, who needs that. Think I will go price a new truck.............

[Glenn and Lorraine]

quote:I'm fairly sure Glenn cannot be convinced.

Exactly right. The same way you cannot convince GM that the reprogramming was not the cause of the engine or transmission failure.

I can see that this discussion(?) will go on forever and so this is the last reply I will make to this thread.